Message to Frontier - ITS SO DAMN OBVIOUS!!

[BigF]

As I'm sure everyone is aware there has been "grind" in games since Pong and PackMan. God it was such a grind putting 10p in the machine to just go through the same old 5 levels until it got interesting each time I lost all my lives.

ALL games have a grind its just how the user perceives it. most of us here are not after some one button fix where you can just earn credits with out much or any interactive play. I think it is more down to having more scope for the play.

For example a find mission is always the same go some where find ship A steal stuff or kill ship A, kill ship B and C if you can be bothered. That's it the whole thing, the only variation is what ships and where and what the dohickey you steal is.

What is needed is a bigger pot of events and tasks that the ramdomiser can pool from that way a mission "grind" would appear less so as on the surface it will appear less like the last task you did. Granted the potential 1000s of variables that could be placed in the pot could potentially bring up the odd "weird" mission, but these could be dropped by players or just reported to FD as they are now. Granted this is just padding but outside of the base game system everything is padding anyway.


What really seems to be the issue is that FD are building for the most part the game they want to play.

In sales 101 you sell or make the product that your customers want, not what you want.

 

[crushdepth]

It is not true that all games have grind. If the activities are fun they are not grind. We complain about grind when they are boring.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What has that got to do with trying to pull off a sample size of 5 anecdotal posts as a legititmate study of complaints about grind?

Replying to this bit: (supposedly that there is no grind in ED?).

 

[Underlordd]

Agreed, i think they just simply dont care enough for the game to update it properly.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I am not entirely sure what you're getting at bud. Is the problem according to you extreme grind or neutered AI?

It's presenting me engineered AI for the same rewards as before. It takes longer to kill them, so pretty much every combat activity is nerfed and made tedious for me.

 

[Enderby]

I’m think that FD would have made the gameplay better if they were able to do so.

I can only conclude that they weren’t.

The grind is real.

 

[BigF]

The “grind” by definition is repeating the same task over and over, therefore all games have this else you’d only play them once and sell them once you got to the congratulations you have completed the game screen, having not lost a life or done anything repetitive.

 

[StiTch]

It's presenting me engineered AI for the same rewards as before. It takes longer to kill them, so pretty much every combat activity is nerfed and made tedious for me.

I literally have no idea what you're taking. We got the engineering buff. The NPCs are due some serious buffage at the top end.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The “grind” by definition is repeating the same task over and over, therefore all games have this else you’d only play them once and sell them once you got to the congratulations you have completed the game screen, having not lost a life or done anything repetitive.

Not even that far. With Tomb Raider, once you have done a bit of sneaking, and bit of combat and a bit of running around, you might as well stop as the rest is just grind.

 

[Enderby]

The “grind” by definition is repeating the same task over and over, therefore all games have this else you’d only play them once and sell them once you got to the congratulations you have completed the game screen, having not lost a life or done anything repetitive.

Good games hide/make the grind fun. Some games... don’t.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Im sure if I could be bothered I could go through the literally thousands of reviews and pull out 5 negative ones that all talked about the grind. This is almost a politicians level of spin.

If you read what i wrote, i picked the first 5 negatives as they were presented, and i acknowledged the results on a different day might be different. There was no cherry picking by me.

Likewise i could have picked out loads of positive reviews to "prove" whatever i wanted if i was so inclined. That is why i just picked by order to avoid any bias on my part.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The grind is real.

Obsidian Ant said it best, something like - there is definitely plenty of grind in the game, if you choose to grind.

Its a matter of playstyle. Basically, if you are complaining about the grind, you might want to examine how you are playing the game. There are times where the grind is perhaps unavoidable, if you want something within a reasonable amount of time. Then you have to make the call, spend a few hours going for what you want (unless you want something quite distant like Admiral when you are cadet) or just say meh, i'll get it sooner or later.

 

[jasonbirder]

Take the current CG for example:

Objective: enter the 75% results so that you can gain some money to afford a rebuy, nothing fancy.

Jump, jump, jump, wait 2 minutes to reach destination staring at the screen, dock, slider right
Jump back, jump back, jump back, jump back (Yes one more because the ship is fully loaded), slider left
Jump, jump, jump, wait 2 minutes to reach destination while staring at the screen in agony, dock, slider right
Jump back, jump back, jump back, jump back, slider left
Jump, jump, jump, wait 2 minutes to reach destination staring at the screen in agony, dock, slider right
Jump back, jump back, jump back, interdicted by a player, destroyed, spawned at the last station with a few millions less in the pocket.
Aaaaand jump back, jump back, jump back, jump back, slider left and finally wonder what you're doing with your life.

Barely got into the 75&. Trader CG is a soulless grind even as entry level contribution. Let alone top tiers.
And I did this with a Type 7, I can only be sad for those who try to earn some money in an hauler or a type 6

CG's are a useful "Money Maker" if you're first starting out...but I don't think many people do them as a "credit-making scheme"
I thought people looked at the CG...decided if they found it Interesting and/or Enjoyable and then decided to get involved...
Recently I've done some of the Damaged Station Rescue Ones (I enjoyed it) The Thargoid massacre ones (I enjoyed it) and one of the Station Rebuild Ones (I didn't really enjoy it - but its our Wings Home Station..so hey ho!)
If you don't ENJOY trading (I don't) rinse and repeat cargo runs for a "haulage" CG IS going to be grindy...do a Combat CG or avoid CGs altogether...WHY are you doing something you don't find "fun"???

Let's take another example, a classic passenger mission "Winston wants to see naked space babes bathing in an oceanic planet over there + 2 more", Aha! Time to try my 32+ ly asp.
Jump, jump, jump, jump, wait a minute staring at the screen while refueling, jump, jump, wait a few minutes staring at the screen while reaching destination, reach destination, scan probe, message "Yes, yes, the future is very exciting, now take me over there, hurry"
Jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, refuel, jump, jump, jump, jump, wait until you reach the destination, scan probe.
Message "Thanks commander, I had enough of these lava jets I can't even see from this height, now I want to go to the guardian site, get a move on"
Checks how far the destination is
17 jumps.
And obviously you also have to go back to the starting station. Always keep that in mind.
I don't feel like I'm grinding at all, eh, nope.

Exploration ISN'T for everybody...some do...maybe they want to visit Stars/Clusters/Nebula they've seen through their backyard telescope...maybe they enjoy the views and vistas the game offers of different astronomical phenomena...maybe they like the "challenge" of route-plotting and maximixing their jump distance and optimisation to get to hard to reach places out on the galaxy Rim...or out of the Plane of the Galaxy...maybe they like the social aspect of organised expeditions...BUT whatever their driver the key thing for Explorers is that things ARE far away...that it is difficult to get places...you can't take that away without wrecking Exploration...given that 95% of the games Content is in or just outside the bubble...it hardly seems fair to destroy Exploration just so people who don't like the journey cn "tick-off" a few tourist spots does it? If the whole Jump?System Scan/Refuel and Jump again is too repetitive and routine...then WHY on earth are you doing it...

I need arsenic for a mod, again, nothing fancy, I don't want to max out anything just a basic mod, I have all others mats I need anyway.
Open galaxy map and checks systems one by one to see if there's a planet with a chance to roll arsenic from opening the rng spawning planetary loot boxes.. uhm, I mean, metallic meteorites.
This system has no planets, neither this one, nope, nope, this one has 17 planets/moons none has arsenic, nope, nope, nope, AHA! Found it.
Jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, wait to reach the 12k ls away planet staring at the screen trying to convince myself the Grind is in my Mind™.
Orbital cruise, dropping somewhere, who cares exacly where it's all rng.
You can't land here, you can't land here, you can't land here, you can't land here, you can't land here.. wait the cursor went blue for a second! Damn, lost it, you can't land here, you can't land here, you can't land here, you can't land here.
Found a landing spot, fracking finally.
Deploy SRV.
Follow the bottom lines in the scanner and..
mesonderite: iron, sulphur, nickel
mesonderite: iron, sulphur, nickel
Chunck: iron, iron, germanium, nickel
mesonderite: iron sulphur nickel
metallic meteorite: iron, sulphur, germanium, tin.
chunk: iron, sulphur, sulphur.

If you ABSOLUTELY HATE playing Elite so much that you simply want to get in...get your arsenic...get out without playing anymore than you have to...why not go "mop up" at a Geyser/Fumerole...easy mat collection and great scenery/environment...
BUT, the ultimate answer to Surface Prospecting is pretty straight forward...just do a bit every time you're on a worlds surface...stock up organically, as you go along...you'll acquire plenty of Mats over time and if there's a "gap" in your collection Raw materials Traders allow you to fill it in quite easily...you perceive it as a grind because you want to go from little or no arsenic to all the arsenic I need for multiple rolls on a G5 upgrade in one easy bound...clearly doing something outside the spirit of the game...

Given that you are not fond of haulage (I can sympathise) you're not fond of exploration...and you're not fond of Mining/Prospecting then why not just stick to Combat if that's the part of Elite that gives you the most pleasure...don't worry about Engineering as there are no NPCs in the game that need Engineered Mods to tackle...95% of encounters you can whitewash in small un-engineered ships anyway...

 

[Enderby]

No it’s just grind. Everything’s the same. Looks the same wherever you go. Things you can do are all the same. There is only grind.

But sometimes i like a bit of grind and grind away happily for a few hours.

It’s fun at those times. But it’s still grind.

 

[Herbrand]

I feel for the community liaisons who have to endure this level of constant whining.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No it’s just grind.

In your opinion.

Everything’s the same.

Ere, not it is not.

Looks the same wherever you go.

Ere, no it doesn't.

Things you can do are all the same.

No, they are not.

There is only grind.

In your opinion

But sometimes i like a bit of grind and grind away happily for a few hours.

It’s fun at those times. But it’s still grind.

I think people do not understand what grind is. When you grind something down, you don't do a little bit, comeback later and do a little bit more, then come back later and do a bit more. You do it all in one go. So for instance if you want to grind out the mining for Selene Grey, you do it all in one go. That is grind. Of course you don't need to or have to do it all in one go, you can do it in bits and pieces, you do it in different rings that can give you a different experience, you can got to haz res site with a ship that can mine and fight at the same time giving you a different experience, and you don't have to do it all in one go.

I have come to the conclusion though, that people just can't help themselves. They get a goal and then have tunnel vision and literaly cannot do anything else until the goal is done in the shortest possible time. But that is modern gaming for you. It seems to have indoctrinated people into this kind of playstyle.

There are choices in how you can do things. You just ignore them so you can propogate with this grind thing you keep talking about. There is grind, but it is purely optional with how you go about your objectives and goals.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I literally have no idea what you're taking. We got the engineering buff. The NPCs are due some serious buffage at the top end.

I got no engineering buff. I dont want this stupid cancer of gameplay. I didn't need a stupid buff, I didn't want a stupid buff and I certainly didn't want random enemies bulletsponged to eleven because some random other player dude got his stupid buffs.

 

[Enderby]

Just accept the grind and the fact that you enjoy it.

Don’t argue that the grind isn’t there.

Just be proud and happy that you enjoy it.

It’s OK.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I got no engineering buff. I dont want this stupid cancer of gameplay. I didn't need a stupid buff, I didn't want a stupid buff and I certainly didn't want random enemies bulletsponged to eleven because some random other player dude got his stupid buffs.

WHy do you think it is a cancer of gameplay. Seems like a lot of people are enjoying it. In fact I would and say it is one of the better "crafting" systems out there at the moment. Sure there are some that are better, but there are a shed load that are far worse and with forced grind mechanics too (LOTRO, i'm looking at you).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Just accept the grind and the fact that you enjoy it.

Don’t argue that the grind isn’t there.

Just be proud and happy that you enjoy it.

If you are grinding, by definition you are not enjoying it. If you are, then it is not grinding.