Hardware & Technical Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2

JonnyRedHed

JonnyRedHed
Zillion said:
My controls :

1 - Primary Fire
2 - Secondary Fire, UI panel select
3 - Lock Target Ahead, Previous UI panel tab *
4 - Turbo, Next UI panel tab *
5 - Systems panel
6 - Flight assist off
7 -Targets panel
8 - Head look (hold modus)
Hat/POV switch for flight thrust, UI panels, Head look
Throttle Throttle axis (inverted, full range, continous) **

* the prev and next UI panel tabs don't seem to work with the Hat / POV switch, up and down does work

** Unfortunately the throttle on the Sidewinder FFb2 does not have a clear middle position, so sometimes I still need to set speed to 0% via the keyboard, but maybe I need some more practice. Anyone a suggestion how to mod the joystick to get a little 'click' in the center of the throttle?

I tried out FaceTrackNoIR with my Logitech C310 webcam to see if I like the tracking thing via my head but I don't like it to much. I guess TrackIr or EDtracker will work better but I feel more in control using the Hat / Pov switch and I do not want to wear a headset always. I like my 5.1 surround speakers :D

Still need to do the keys for the galaxy map. But so far I guess I can live with this setup, no need to buy "HOTAS" gear for now and downgrade on the joystick quality. Maybe if I can get a separate Saitek X52 throttle 2nd hand..

As for force feedback, the stick already gives some force ingame. It would be very nice if implemented ingame but it needs to be able to tune it down (or up if you want some strain after a couple of hours ;) )

By the way I saw a FFB2 Sidewinder for sale on Amazon 2nd hand for $349,- :p
Click to expand...


One would assume that for both game ED and SC, once force feedback makes its first appearance that there will be detailed section in the joystick and game pad (rumble and FFB on xbox one triggers) advanced set up in the games options. For maybe setting where forces can be applied, and strengths, and centring options.
 

JonnyRedHed

JonnyRedHed
Lysander lysan said:
Still have it and I hope that the FF will come to ED in a distant future :)
Click to expand...

V3teran said:
I too would like Force Feedback implemented.
Click to expand...


I'm lobbying as well on the Star Citizen forums, so if your a Citizen as well, maybe drop in a comment on the same 'ask a dev' forum thread I had this answer below on, and quote the dev reply. The more show interest there the better.

"Thank you for your question. We recently received a couple of refurbished G940s at the UK office. So Joystick force feedback is very much something we plan to dig into a bit further."


Sometimes an old idea can come back to life when the time is right. Both Elite and Star Citizen in my opinion have a great opportunity here to revive force feedback and make it anew for their space games.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2876203/#Comment_2876203
 
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Thelamon

Thelamon
Hey there,

I have just (5 Minutes ago...) purchased the Beta Access and plan to start playing on Tuesday once Beta 2 is out.

I plan to use my MS SideWinder Force Feedback 2 (2 Revision with red and silver Switches and Trigger + rubber coating) for ED, as there don't seem to be many new sticks of the same quality out there and the Thrustmaster for 300+ Euro is out of the question.
(Microsoft stopped making Joysticks all together, Logitech down to one model etc.)
The Force Feedback 2 is the best Joystick I ever owned andit still works perfectly.
I dont particularly care about force Feedback, it's rather the solid Quality and precision of the MS FFB2 that I really like.

1.
It's good to hear that the MS FFB2 seems to work well with ED!

2.
Has anyone of you guys gathered experience with using this Stick together with a third Party Throttle in order to create an improvised "HOTAS" Setup?

From what I have gathered so far having a separate throttle + thruster control is desirable (must have?) in ED?!

Best regards
Thelamon

PS
When buying a used MS FFB2 be aware that the 2nd Revision (red/silver Trigger and Buttons + rubber coated grip) is prone to severe stickiness of the rubber coating (apparently due to a process int he rubber coating itself).

Solution is either buying a 1 Rev Version with Grey/black Switches and no coating or to remove the rubber coating using WD 40 to dissolve it.
 

JonnyRedHed

JonnyRedHed
Thelamon said:
Hey there,

I have just (5 Minutes ago...) purchased the Beta Access and plan to start playing on Tuesday once Beta 2 is out.

I plan to use my MS SideWinder Force Feedback 2 (2 Revision with red and silver Switches and Trigger + rubber coating) for ED, as there don't seem to be many new sticks of the same quality out there and the Thrustmaster for 300+ Euro is out of the question.
(Microsoft stopped making Joysticks all together, Logitech down to one model etc.)
The Force Feedback 2 is the best Joystick I ever owned andit still works perfectly.
I dont particularly care about force Feedback, it's rather the solid Quality and precision of the MS FFB2 that I really like.

1.
It's good to hear that the MS FFB2 seems to work well with ED!

2.
Has anyone of you guys gathered experience with using this Stick together with a third Party Throttle in order to create an improvised "HOTAS" Setup?

From what I have gathered so far having a separate throttle + thruster control is desirable (must have?) in ED?!

Best regards
Thelamon

PS
When buying a used MS FFB2 be aware that the 2nd Revision (red/silver Trigger and Buttons + rubber coated grip) is prone to severe stickiness of the rubber coating (apparently due to a process int he rubber coating itself).

Solution is either buying a 1 Rev Version with Grey/black Switches and no coating or to remove the rubber coating using WD 40 to dissolve it.
Click to expand...



Hi, and a warm welcome to the forum Thelamon.

A HOTAS set up, I have thought about using a Saitek X45 throttle I have if I also use the MS FFB2 in the right hand. I have a brand new still boxed x45 and I do like the throttle with the rocker switch. other than that, others have suggested using the CH Products Pro throttle as that comes with a good selection of buttons and hats and even a mini joystick, and is of solid build quality.

I also have a few MS FFB2 (version 1 and 2's like you mention) some with good rubber grip still and some worn down. I have removed the rubber coating on one using white spirit, but WD40 sounds like another good way as well.



I for one hope that force feedback support will make an appearance sooner rather than later ,years down the line. And will continue to lobby for it in both Elite and Star Citizen.



I have a force feedback request thread running here:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=790707#post790707

If you'd like to make a comment. All our force feedback joysticks and HOTAS will work a hell of a lot better when the game supports force feedback. At the moment its pot luck to get the centring working on some sticks. With some basic force feedback support in-game, say just the same hapic events for all ships to start with, this should be enough to get us going. Then FD could work on refining force feedback (haptic feedback) for each ship and then into the unfolding game universe.
 
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Gerboah

G
I have used mine for years - one of the best sticks I have owned, solid and reliable.

1 = Primary Fire
2 = Secondary Fire
3 = Target Lock
4 = Turbo Boost

5 = Cycle Weapon Groups
6 = Engage Jump/Super Cruise
7 = Can't remember ... probably going to reprogram this one then
8 = Deploy Weapons

Hat = Thrust Up/Down/Left/Right
Throttle = Throttle
 

JonnyRedHed

JonnyRedHed
Gerboah said:
I have used mine for years - one of the best sticks I have owned, solid and reliable.

1 = Primary Fire
2 = Secondary Fire
3 = Target Lock
4 = Turbo Boost

5 = Cycle Weapon Groups
6 = Engage Jump/Super Cruise
7 = Can't remember ... probably going to reprogram this one then
8 = Deploy Weapons

Hat = Thrust Up/Down/Left/Right
Throttle = Throttle
Click to expand...

it will be good to see FD's first implementation of force feedback (haptic feedback) as and when they develop it.
 

Simos

Simos
I have a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 and it is great!
Elite may not have feedback effects yet but when I switched from my Sidewinder spaceship to my Eagle, the stick became lighter and I felt like piloting a different ship, more agile and fast!
 

Luceferous

L
Simos said:
I have a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 and it is great!
Elite may not have feedback effects yet but when I switched from my Sidewinder spaceship to my Eagle, the stick became lighter and I felt like piloting a different ship, more agile and fast!
Click to expand...

Interesting! Are you absolutely sure? Test and report back!
 

Simos

Simos
Yes I am sure. I will try it again by changing ships. No one else did it with the same controller?
Click to expand...
OK, I tested it and that is not the case. I got my sidewinder ship back and the controller is the same. The same as it is while I am on the desktop.
I think it is a matter of posture, the sense of weight is changing while I move the controller around my desk and also when lifting the weight of my hand from the armrest to my palm.
But it happened to my brain and it was awesome! lol
The controller is great though!
 
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JonnyRedHed

JonnyRedHed
Yes there is no force feedback in-game at the moment. Anything your sticks exhibit are just your own sticks basic zeroing.

We can all hope we see the first iteration of force feedback (Haptic feedback) sometime in the next year if all goes well. Maybe post planetary landings first major update, maybe.
 

Luceferous

L
Simos said:
OK, I tested it and that is not the case. I got my sidewinder ship back and the controller is the same. The same as it is while I am on the desktop.
I think it is a matter of posture, the sense of weight is changing while I move the controller around my desk and also when lifting the weight of my hand from the armrest to my palm.
But it happened to my brain and it was awesome! lol
The controller is great though!
Click to expand...

Placebo force feedback! Is there nothing that Microsoft didn't build into this stick? ;-)
 

GeneGenie

GeneGenie
Another MS SW FF2 owner here.

Would be nice to get FF in Elite, provided it wasn't crazy over-the-top, gave you some meaningful information and could be tweaked to the pilots personal preferences.

Sadly I don't (yet) have a Rift or other head-tracker, but I do find the default resistance of the joystick and its weight(!) gives the sense of it actually being attached to your ship.

1 = Primary Fire
2 = Secondary Fire
3 = Target Forward
4 = Boost


5 = Cycle Weapon Groups
6 = Nothing Yet
7 = Nothing Yet
8 = Toggle Hardpoints


Throttle = forward/reverse throttle, 0% at mid-point.

Hat = Nothing yet

Using keyboard for other controls and mouse in station menus.

Am having too much fun flying the ship to want to take time out to faff about sorting out some better bindings.

My joystick first saw service in a TIE Fighter, but it's still going strong despite much abuse in BF2 flying helicopters :D
 

Ddave73

D
I do not want a new stick, my brother got a hotas system for about £150 which with the exception of the throttle section being pretty damn good I find the stick feels cheap and just not as satisfying as the feel of the Sidewinder FF Pro 2.

I battered this stick on Independence War EOC, Motocross Madness 2, Flight Sim, IL2, BF 1942, BF2, BF3, BF4 and many many more and this stick is the thing of legend, never ever once had an issue (one or two driver related ones) with the hardware. I picture movable parts inside to be made out of pure granite and diamond lol

They realy do not make them like this anymore and I think if Microsoft made a Sidewinder Pro 3 with the same standards as they did with the 2 and just added more buttons and stuff it would be an instant hit.

I would dearly like to get some force feedback because with other space sims or flying games I have played it has been well worth it, if I recall Edge Of Chaos had excellent force feedback so if FD need some inspiration I say go play that with a FF joystick.
 

JonnyRedHed

JonnyRedHed
Many of us commanders (and citizens) Love force feedback!. FD please Support Force Feedback in Elite and its unfolding - make it anew for your space game - refresh the force feedback implementation once you have a licence for the tech. Maybe even have some haptic feedback on the left hand HOTAS throttle! - now that would be something NO ONE has done - feel the ships throttle - what a great extra tactile feedback that would be!. I'd pay for that!


In a space sim game though, a modern one like ED and SC, things could be a lot different though and made to work well in these games. There can can be all sorts of haptic feedback and vibrations which could be represented via joysticks. If you consider the smaller space craft, in these ships one would most likely feel the vibrations from the weapons firing, landing gear, outer hatch, and in-coming ballistic and laxer events hitting the shields and hull. And also collision events. And then add in flight forces to give a feel of pulling a tight turn and maybe have a red-out stick shaker is g-lock is off etc..

And then a myriad of other haptic feedback events that can also be represented right across the unfolding Elite Dangerous PU.

And although unlikely to happen now, but I would really like to see some haptic feedback on the left hand throttle of a force feedback HOTAS. To FEEL the ships engines throttle up and down will give a good pilot an extra tactile feedback on the state of their engines. Something no one has really attempted yet.



My Thread on the Star Citizen forums:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3609049/#Comment_3609049




Also...

Did you see the new poll on a custom SC HOTAS. (link below) No mention of force feedback, so if your reading this and want full and proper force feedback (haptic feedback) implemented in Star Citizen (if you've backed it as well as ED), go post in the comments of the poll to support force feedback in the game.

A custom HOTAS with full and proper force feedback implemented. Maybe even haptic feedback on the throttle unit as well to offer some throttle tactile feedback for the left hand. Now that would be something special I'd pay good money for. Make force feedback anew for your space game.


Thanks.


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...zen-HOTAS-Poll



Post support as and where you can.
 
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FyZ1K

FyZ1K
Hi everyone... :)

It wouldn't be a shame to think about it, implementing forcefeedback into the game. Imo this would seriously be an improvement and a fat revive for the FFB2 from it's grave!

I would think that this would be awesome. I would only play elite then... Seriously because i really like the game and i could imagine with forcefeedback! :eek::eek: Today i bought fsx on steam and the FFB2 is still supported!! Hell i'd wish to see that in elite...

So pleeeaasse Frontier! Pleaase Mr. Braben make this come true!!!

Fy :D
 

JonnyRedHed

JonnyRedHed
yomer said:
Any official word from the developers. Can we get our hopes high? Is it that difficult to implement?
Click to expand...

DB has mentioned when asked about force feedback that they do intend to implement it, but as and when they get around to it. That''s all we know so far, yes at some point.


Pop a comment into the force feedback request thread below to add your support for force feedback (haptic feedback) in Elite Dangerous:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41345
 
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