Mining - Am I alone feeling it's unbalanced/not quite working?
- Thread starter NeilF
- Start date
Physician heal thyself
I think the reason to go to a hot spot is to fill your hold with the material detected on the hot spot, regardless of extraction method.
Knowing you can equip any of the 4 types of mining extraction tools and fill your hold would mean that mining a hot spot is balanced between the methods.
Time is where using the Pulse Wave should come into play.
Brightest asteroids should contain highest amount of a desired material, not dictate extraction method.
You shouldnt be able to find core asteroids with gamey mechanics like “look for the pixel pop in” or “see how they are always the same shape”
If you find a high yield asteroid, it should be a mix of methods to extract.
If you are lucky, it’s a motherload. And if you, brought the right tools, you can save time by cracking it and filling your hold faster.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Enough of the posts about the posters please.
Agreed
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
absolutely spot on!. mechanically i like the 3 methods of mining in principle, and i do not mind the scanner as a quick low resolution way of sorting wheat from chaff but that should be where it stops imo.
Agreed - That's pretty much along the lines of my thoughts to - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...uite-working?p=7308908&viewfull=1#post7308908
I think the only possibly nuance to this is the PWA not just detecting (highlighting) the specific material for the hotspot, but maybe a couple of other logically associated ones too. ie: So a "bright asteroids" isn't necessarily exactly what you're looking for, but more than likely what you're looking for. And in the right sort of hotspot probably all worthwhile stuff for example from a CR point of view.
And then, importantly, FD's depletion mechanic - which is all rather vague at the moment:-
- Needs to be displayed to CMDRs. eg: So a Hotspots quality or reserves need to be showing in the system information, or indeed on the target Hotspot's details (eg: "100%" for perfect. "62%" for one that's been mined to a reasonable degree).
- The quantity of materials (hotspot's and associated?) need to reduced in quantity/frequency according to this depletion. So as quality or reserves of a hotspot reduce, so does the frequency of surfacce and subsurface (& legacy?) deposit amounts.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Agreed.
Yes more nuance to the PWA would be welcome. Like give it samples from your hoppers to tune it to a specific spectrum. Maybe the tuned asteroids are bright with a different hue.
I’d like to use the PWA to find asteroids with rare Materials for systhesis also.
I was thinking that hotspots should light up with a first probe, then you have to actually hit one with a second to get details on it. Get a little probe more shot skill in there.
Because that suggestion highlights there is no alternative...
ie: Go to a Void Opal Hotspot. Try mining them in anyway other than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode... In my experience it's futile due to the balance.
And this shows the balance has mining 180 degrees out of wack. Mining should be about finding surface deposits of worth, and luckily finding sub-surface deposits of even more worth, and finally fissures of even more worth...
And my suggestion is, with a small kick and rebalance, suddenly mining gets more varied and ideally engaging. As I wrote above:-
- In hotspots, the hotspot material, and logical others are in far far greater number across all asteroids in surface and sub-surface deposits. eg: In an Low Temp Diamond hotspot you will not simply find asteroid after asteroid highlighted with "Oxygen" surface deposits, but instead far far more regularly with deposits of actual Low Temp Diamond, Alexandrite etc...
- Sub-surface deposits will be fairly regular and when mined give out a worthwhile number of fragments eg: 6-10.
- Motherlodes will continue to be rare (pretty much as now), and obviously lucrative.
So the suggested outcome?:-
- If you want to simply hunt for motherlodes, as you do now, fill your boots...
- BUT, if you spot a bright yellow/red target on the PWA, even though it is not a motherlode it will now be worth a look, because it might have loads of surface deposits of what you're looking for on it. Or even better a pair of sub-surface deposits.
So the gameplay balance changes, so it makes sense to investigate "hot target" even if they are not motherlodes. And if while doing this, you spot the tell tale signs on the PWA there is a motherlode, great!
^ Am I crazy in suggesting the above might result in a more balanced and varied mining experience? Something a little more interesting and varied than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode? And all without significant changes?
NOTE: And add in FD's suggested depletion, so as a hot spot is depleted (eg: 100% -> 75% -> 50%) the occurence of the hotspots material (and other associated ones) simply spawn that much less frequently. So in a hotspot with 100% reserves it's as good as it's going to get. But in one at 50% you'll find less across asteroids. And show this value in the system information to CMDRs!
Bolded portions, one of which you bolded yourself:
According to you, there is no viable/reasonable alternative to Motherlode hunting in the current implementation. You are welcome to play the game any way you like NeilF, but your assertion here is objectively false.
Legacy mining still pays as well as it ever did, perhaps better with the new system states, and it's hardly a small income.
There is nothing stopping anyone from doing both types of mining concurrently. I would venture to say that this is the maximum potential profit per hour, if you are good at it and make good choices while doing it. Legacy mine until you hit a core - sound like anything you've said in this thread multiple times? The fact that you choose not to do it that way does not mean it isn't already there, and very close to how you described.
The scanner was implemented to support the new mechanics - legacy mining has no need for such a thing. I had thought that obvious, but it seems not to be to everyone. Well, now you know, too.
I think you are having trouble seeing the actual state of Mining as a whole because you have pigeon-holed yourself into only one portion of it, and thus, don't think the rest of it exists as you described. That seems pretty clear, actually.
The only thing *wrong* with Mining currently is the sell price of some materials - that could do with some reigning in, but this might be something that fixes itself. We just need to wait and see, because not enough time has passed yet to see if the BGS is going to burst this bubble dynamically or not.
Riôt
While true, the old methods are in fact still there, all the mechanics don't really mix well.
I did some mixed mining the other day because I stumbled across some rocks with sub-surface palladium. I know it's not worth near what core materials are worth, but I extracted it anyway, because I wanted to have some fun with the drill-missiles.
Later on in that session, I came across another core while my cargo was nearly full. So of course I'm now jettisoning the palladium to make room for the core mats. Thinking to myself "i knew this would happen, why did i bother?"
No this wasn't 'legacy mining', but it would have been the same outcome if i had picked up the palladium with lasers.
Now I'm not asking for all methods to be brought up to the reward level of coring (realistically core mat rewards should probably come down a bit), but it would be nice if they did a balance pass on the viability of all the mining types. Not just in payouts, but potentially output type as well. Just like you can only get the high value gem-type resources from cores, maybe make it so that certain high-value types are only available with laser mining. This could also help tie into mining missions and such.
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Understood... But the suggestion was (well put or not) to try mining using the new mechanics, and not resort to motherlode->motherlode->motherlode... ie: Fly around using the PWA without solely using it to find motherlodes. In my experience, working on an highlighted asteroid that isn't a motherlode, has been basically pointless.
The inference being, the mechanics can be changed so the new mechanics are more varied, interesting and ultimately more balanced.
I'll post a link to the issues and suggestions again - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...uite-working?p=7308908&viewfull=1#post7308908 <-- If you have any further comments it might be worth using this as a reference point? ie: What do you see as not correct or not improving/balancing things?
Note: And the suggestion in the above link could even bring legacy mining into the standard gameplay loop if so wished...
ps: And again, this discussion is in no way intended to be about increasing or decreasing income, as this can easily be adjusted as required. ie: With size/quantity/frequency of fragments, and how rediculously mineral prices etc are hiked up (or not).
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I admit that I had done just enough mining to unlock the engineering then vowed to never do it again. Well I've been mining for pretty much the last few weeks. Why ...cause the payout is so high I figure I better get in before it gets nerfed. I don't care what anyone says it will get nerfed so you better grab the cash now. The thing is that although all the methods are there... core mining is so easy, quick and profitable there is, to me, no reason to do anything else. It is unbalanced. Unless you have a desire ( go get'em if you do) to look at rocks for a few hours for comparatively little money, you don't even need any of the non core mining tools. I think for a large chunk of the player base ( like me) mining will die as soon as the opal market crashes, and it will.
Every second spent legacy mining is a second you're not deep core mining. And the 5-10 minutes it will take you to find that opal deep core are worth more than a full hour of doing legacy mining, and that's at regular market price and without even factoring in the abrasion blaster duplication bug.
I would also suggest, as it to underline how unbalanced, and for want of a better term "broken" it is, attempt to use the new mechanics to mine in any way other than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode.
ie: You fire off the PWA and see for example four brightly lit asteroids. You could prospect all of them, and most likely not a single one will be of any interest to you at all. Indeed even the brightest (unless a motherlode etc) will most likely not be.
However, imagine if this was turned on its head, so in a hotspot, the hot material was far far more common across asteroids, so you stood a good chance with a "bright" asteroid of finding a couple of surface deposits of it. And consider if sub-surface deposits could generate say 6-10 fragments, and you found an asteroid with a pair of those in the material you're looking for. Suddenly mining becomes more about mining, and less about spending X minutes looking for the next motherlode etc.
And tie the frequency/amount of materials in a hotspot to the "depletion value" FD have mentioned, and suddenly working less common hot spots has value too...
Let’s also make mining OPEN only...
...runs
...runs
Let’s also make mining OPEN only...
...runs
now you made me spit up my coke.... have some rep!
I've been in an Opal hotspot today, and found only one core so far in 1 hour. Yesterday, I was at a site where I found three. What am I doing wrong? I can't do that 100 gazillion/hr runs for some reason. Did they nerf mining already, or maybe the site I'm at is depleted? But how would I know. There's no information about it being empty, is there ...?
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It could be bad luck or the fact FD's depletion mechanics are at play... Hence the suggestion in the OP, that a Hotspot's reserves/depletion are shown to CMDRs in the system information (or imagine if in contacts pane it said "Palladium Hotspot [80%]") so a CMDR knows how compromised it is.
We also need to be told how this depletion affects a hotspot. I fear it is simply motherlodes. Ideally (simply) the value should just reduce the dice rolls for the frequency/quantity of the hot material in the hotspot. So going to a 100% hotspot gives an advantage over going to a 20% one...
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Agree. Because right now, I don't know. Should I continue to grind and maybe be lucky, or should I give up and go somewhere else?
The thing is, yesterday, I started to learn to recognize the rocks that were most likely to have a core. Today, I've seen many of them, but they don't have the signature cracks, and confirmed with prospector limpet, they're pretty much empty, not even surface.
if they're depleted, should a zone really show up as a hotspot or should they rather be lukewarm?
Haven't gotten much luck with surface either.
If zones get depleted (which I like as concept), there has to be a way to know or one could spend way too much time wasting away.