Multicrew trolling - it works!

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I'm very useful to improve the game experience for everyone. Such flaws need to be addressed to 'force' the devs looking into it.
A simple panel were the CMDR set permissions what each role can do and what not would help. :D

You have a valid point and obviously made it. However, could not the same have been done by setting up different scenarios with one or two of your friends?
There was no need to violate the trust given to you by the other cmdr(s), who were thousands of light years away from the bubble.
 
Just my 2 cents:

This is the internet!

If you come here expecting that everyone plays ethicaly correct, or that you will never encounter players trying to ruin your day, the online gaming world is nothing for you.

MC is a nice feature as it is no real need to make additional functions except maybe more content to use it.

You just need to start thinking instead of expecting the devs to do it for you.

Just don't let commanders you don't know join your crew and we're all good.

Like Sandro said, it's about playing together and trusting eachother.

If you don't know the commander requesting to join your crew, then don't accept the request. Easy fix.

Naivety is a no go when you play with strangers behind their screens.
 
Oh please. There's no limit on how much you can put in place. Having an option to disable a specific module for multi-crew is not "too much protection".

Yeh, i agree. An option to portion out select controls to MC Joiners shouldnt be a stretch.

In the same way we can customise fire groups, why not customise MC crew groups with permissions.

a simple tick box like Fire groups would work.
 
I have to say, when will Frontier put their foot down?

Like the sort of comment weve just seen removed, and poster is still around with his "lol"?

OP with :

"Another CMDR was even further away, heading to beagle point......and after my telepresence visit he lost all his heatsinks, i told him he need to restock and left."

doesn't warrant any in game action?

It really does seem to be turning into a bit of a farce now.

It's one thing having bugs and loop holes in the game, it's another just to flat out ignore issues and let players deal with the fallout.
 
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I have to say, when will Frontier put their foot down?

Like the sort of comment weve just seen, and poster is still around with his "lol".

OP with :

"Another CMDR was even further away, heading to beagle point......and after my telepresence visit he lost all his heatsinks, i told him he need to restock and left."

doesn't warrant any in game action?

It really does seem to be turning into a bit of a farce now.

Welp, as we heard from Sandro, being a troll is permissible. So, I doubt we'll see a wholesale change in regards to policing people's behaviors.

Just give us what we need to have control over our ships and to be able to dole out responsibility when respect is earned.
 
Hello commanders!
But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

There's a very big difference here. If a wingman attacks me, I can retaliate and shoot back, and so can other wingmen. That makes it a very high risk situation for the troll. The insidious thing about multicrew trolling is that it's consequence free, and also extremely easy to do - no waiting around at a RES looking for victims to wing up with, just join a new ship and have at it.

The current implementation is just way too unbalanced in favor of the trolls. Yes, the gunner can shoot at a police ship, and that's expected. But then the gunner can also re-deploy guns to try to keep me from jumping away, making an already stressful situation even more annoying since you have to make sure to kick the troll before being able to get to safety. I know, people should "git gud" and deal with it, but I think this drives away players if there's too many unpleasant situations with too few incentives to keep doing it. If only the trolls are having fun, they'll make up a disproportionate fraction of the people using the feature.

At minimum expect the helm to have full authority for stowing and deploying hardpoints, there's really no reason to allow a gunner to deploy guns and start firing when approaching a station. Having to always manually disable weapons as a precaution is tedious. Selective control over SCBs and hardpoints would also be good, but I can see this may be harder due to needing new UI to implement.

As a suggestion, I think it would be nice to be able to choose which roles to make available when opening my ship to random crew. This would also help the people joining if they could filter based on this. Someone may be wanting to fly a fighter and not be interested in a gunner-only ship, or vice versa. This could be automatic (if there's no gunner-usable weapons or no fighters, don't advertise those roles), but a player override would be nice to avoid disappointed gunners with just a single missile launcher or something.

I think the most basic issue here is that this is yet another potentially fun multiplayer feature being undermined by player-hostile choices. I think there have been way too many of these:

Wings - let's have fun bounty hunting with friends. Oops, the bounties get split up, and in combat CGs there aren't nearly enough hostiles spawning to keep it interesting. Back to lone bounty hunting since it's more profitable, especially since there aren't really high-end opponents where you'd need backup once you've got past the starter ships. Thank you for finally addressing the payouts in the latest patch.

Powerplay - I joined a faction hoping for some organized PVP battles, but pretty much everyone just wanted to grind merits in private groups since that's most efficient. Sigh.

Ship launched fighters with NPC crew - flying a fighter is awesome, and I love being able to get some variety while bounty hunting by switching roles, especially with a high-ranked NPC pilot that actually provides useful support. However, NPC permadeath makes me unwilling to play in Open, it takes months to rank up a pilot with the game time I have available and it's just not worth the risk. I've already lost a Deadly pilot to a stupid mistake on my part once, and don't want to do so again if I can avoid it. And that's after I finally have enough money to not mind rebuys too much. On the bright side, ship transport at least lets me switch to my FAS when I do want to play in Open, but NPC permadeath makes me unwilling to casually open my main ship for multicrew, especially considering the trolling issues. I know there's workarounds, but the risk vs reward tradeoff is just wrong here.

Multicrew - Yay, a quick and low-barrier way to have fun with other players. But then we've got the obvious trolling issues, and the payout was reduced so drastically to make it not worth it for many players. I understand why it's not supposed to be a zero-risk "get rich quick" feature, but this seemed excessively stingy. Maybe consider the player's net worth in the pay scale calculation so that a newbie doesn't earn 10x their current assets in a single session, and scale it based on the effective contribution to avoid AFK income farming?

I'm trying to be constructive here. I think it's essential for a game's long term health to encourage people to have fun playing, and I feel that the incentives in the game are currently not well aligned with this.
 
Welp, as we heard from Sandro, being a troll is permissible. So, I doubt we'll see a wholesale change in regards to policing people's behaviors.

Human nature being what it is, isn't that as good as an invite?

"It's a bit sad. Oh well <sad face>"

That's it?
 
Yup, just need the proper tools to do so.

Exactly. David spoke wistfully and fondly about the community policing itself and punishing bad behavior. It really would, to a degree, if the game tools would support it. When the field is left open to trolling and salt mining, it's not actually neutral. It's in effect giving a free pass to the ~10% of customers who can't handle such freedom, and will get their jollies from tormenting other players to the best of their ability.
 
Just my 2 cents:

This is the internet!

If you come here expecting that everyone plays ethicaly correct, or that you will never encounter players trying to ruin your day, the online gaming world is nothing for you.

MC is a nice feature as it is no real need to make additional functions except maybe more content to use it.

You just need to start thinking instead of expecting the devs to do it for you.

Just don't let commanders you don't know join your crew and we're all good.

Like Sandro said, it's about playing together and trusting eachother.

If you don't know the commander requesting to join your crew, then don't accept the request. Easy fix.

Naivety is a no go when you play with strangers behind their screens.

This is a very easy fix, but it goes against the spirit this feature based upon...increasing player interaction, building friends lists, enhancing the social aspects. The devs are really trying to force a basically single player game into the multi player realm, and it is proving difficult. Numerous development decisions show this...splitting ship functions away from the single pilot rather than creating new functions, removing barriers to access to absurd levels, as in no negative repercussions or any kind of accountability at all for a crew member, not allowing NPC crew...
 
Yesterday i've joined several ships, for bounty hunting and exploring.

Joining ships and just sitting there, doing nothing and get money for it, perfect for me.
If they ask why i'm not fighting, i said....oh i'm new to the game, need to figure out how everything works. (If they only would check my profile lol)

Now i found the option to deploy SCB's, which i did....oh nice, 3x cell banks.....enough to make the ship overheat.
The CMDR were slightly distracted and worried why all the SCB's are gone.
I said, obviously a bug *gggggg
Finally they figured it was me...but it was almost too late...they had to leave the haz res.

Found it more enjoyable instead of actually fighting.

I then tried to find some exploration vessels.....one were near Sag A.
Oh see, there are heatsinks to deploy.....the ASP CMDR hasn't realized it was me.
Another CMDR was even further away, heading to beagle point......and after my telepresence visit he lost all his heatsinks, i told him he need to restock and left.

What we have learned today?
Multicrew has flaws.....terrible flaws....which needs to be fixed. I might join some other ships today again, coz it was fun to troll innocent CMDR's.

You are a despicable human being, but at least you can function as a warning example.

Pay attention FDev. This is the reality. 10% of the playerbase will troll and grief if it's not addressed, 1% of humans are genuine sociopaths. This has to be taken into account in game design, and taken seriously.

The situation is hurting your game. It's not a minor matter. Wake up.
 
Yeh, i agree. An option to portion out select controls to MC Joiners shouldnt be a stretch.

In the same way we can customise fire groups, why not customise MC crew groups with permissions.

a simple tick box like Fire groups would work.

Because ship owners/helm position would actually use such a feature, and that would further limit already severely limited stuff for a crew member to do.
 

Sandro Sammarco

Lead Designer
Frontier
Hello Commanders!

Final thoughts for the day.

To reiterate: we're not against implementing safety features for helm, assuming they work and fit into schedules. This has been raised a number of times in a reasonable manner, is something of interest to us, and if and when we have workable tweaks, we'll let you know.

However, I personally don't feel that ruining other folks game experience is a good or valid way to prove a point. To me it's no different to trolling for fun. Of course, opinions will differ, but I can't help feeling that it's ultimately not a great way to support the game.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
However, I personally don't feel that ruining other folks game experience is a good or valid way to prove a point. To me it's no different to trolling for fun. Of course, opinions will differ, but I can't help feeling that it's ultimately not a great way to support the game.

Well said.
 
ok....

Loads of people play in open and I have had lots of fun there with other CMDRS.

Anybody that comes across someone like this in open, FDev have given you the tools.....

1. Boot them from your ship
2. Block them

Done

Its a bit late by then isn't it.

A simple solution would be to grant rights in the settings menu in the comms tab (or right hand panel), as follows:

- Everyone who joins has access (NON-FRIENDS)
- Only friends have access (FRIENDS)
- No one has access (DISABLED)

It doesn't completely stop people from trolling but it does give the helm some control over what ship options are given to others. So the helm sets one of the above as they see fit.

** EDIT: A better solution would be to have another tab on the right panel where we could assign functions to the above groups. This would allow me to give someone the gunner role, or have access to SLF without them getting access to my heat sinks and scbs, or missiles etc..

e.g

NON-FRIENDSFRIENDS
TURRETSox
MISSILESox
SLFxx
SCBoo
CHAFFoo

x = enable, o = disabled. Naturally this makes use of the existing style from modules and can presumably be implemented very easily and makes it simple for us to set the privileges we want to give people. Also, it means I can have a mix of friends and randoms on board with different access.

Can I ask where you stand on shadow banning players who abuse features to the detriment of other players?

This case seems quite clear cut?

I find the entire concept of shadow banning rather scummy and pathetic. If people are breaking some sort of rule then they need to be made aware of it.
 
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Hello Commanders!

Final thoughts for the day.

To reiterate: we're not against implementing safety features for helm, assuming they work and fit into schedules. This has been raised a number of times in a reasonable manner, is something of interest to us, and if and when we have workable tweaks, we'll let you know.

However, I personally don't feel that ruining other folks game experience is a good or valid way to prove a point. To me it's no different to trolling for fun. Of course, opinions will differ, but I can't help feeling that it's ultimately not a great way to support the game.

I'm not sure the people trolling actually have the intention of supporting the game. In fact breaking the game seems more apt.
:mad:
 
Because ship owners/helm position would actually use such a feature, and that would further limit already severely limited stuff for a crew member to do.

When a friend i know in real life joins my ship i can allow him to have 100% control of the role i have created for him. Gunner with all the trimmings.
When opening to strangers i can untick, Heatsinks and Shield Cell banks (for example) but can allow them to use the weapons.


With MC right now, when i have joined another players ship and done a good job (im my expeciance with MC (when it works)) that commander usually friends me and i have returned to their ships, i have proven my self as a trustworthy player. (for what its worth i am now a friend)
With a Permission group setting system installed, That commander could expand my powers aboard his ship as he see's fit going forward.

As an unknown player joining a strangers ship and entering into the gunner position, i am personally fine with only having access to just the guns and the captain having control over the HS and SCB for example.

Permissions can be turned on and off at the whim of the captain in real time, so at his discretion functions can be portioned out and recinded depending on the situation, player and their behavior.
 
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As an unknown player joining a strangers ship and entering into the gunner position, i am personally fine with only having access to just the guns and the captain having control over the HS and SCB for example.

If you choose an exploration role it seems odd you'd be given access to heatsinks.
 
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