Modes My experiment n OPEN

[Agony_Aunt]

I disagree... the forum 'community' attitude to PvP would still be the same, regardless.

You just have to reread all the 'Piracy is like RL sexual assault', 'Pirates are RL terrorists' and all the 'the moment I clicked open, a pvper jumped through my window and executed my dog' type threads that were there then.

The shape of pvp has changed in ED, as this powerplay discussion has underlined with old hands recounting fondly the time before 'the migration' to mitigate risk.

We all share a portion of blame for this situation. We need to stop lobbing personal attack grenades into each others trenches if thats ever going to change (which I suspect sadly is not going to happen).

Please, don't try and deflect. I wasn't talking about the community reaction. I was talking about how gankers have probably turned more than a few people off playing in open or submitting to pirates even if they remain in open. Igonre the forums. You're in the game, you have an experience like that.

You understand at this point, you either accept death happening to random ganks, or stop flying a type 9 for trade, or move to PG/solo. In some situations there simply is no git gud possible, not without making serious compromises in playstyle (and no, before you say it, i'm not talking about flying shieldless. When it happened to me i had a second to top sized A rated shield - max size would have remendered the type 9 useless for trading).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I disagree... the forum 'community' attitude to PvP would still be the same, regardless.

You mean diverse?

 

[DukeIronHand]

You're super determined to just be condescending without making any actual points, aren't you.

Sorry. Was my post “incredibly incompetent” then?

 

[Warm Considering]

Look. This argument goes round and round in circles. We've had this before.

"Did you fly without shields?"

"You should've boosted away"

"You didn't evade properly"


No. We're talking interdiction start, and full red bars in five seconds regardless of what you do. We're talking taking damage the moment you drop out of SC, with shields going within seconds, and hull going down immediately thereafter. We're talking a fully engineered A-grade Anaconda with Engineering upgrades (mostly the highest grade, though no "godrolls"). I had similar experiences in a Python. And the attacker even jumps out before your death animation finishes playing.

I'm not the only one with this type of experience. I'm not exaggerating and frankly, I don't care if you believe me. Funnily enough, last time I baited some gankers with my super dangerous stock Sidewinder it took a LOT longer for them to kill me than some of the A-grade hit and runs on my Python and Conda. There's a lot of variance out there, and apparently you haven't experienced the other extreme yet.

Yeah, see, I don't believe you. Literally what you're saying is mathematically impossible. It takes longer than 5 seconds to interdict even if you submit, and longer than 10 seconds to bring an Anaconda to 0 hitpoints. You haven't actually had this discussion before, because I'm not asking what you did, I'm telling you--directly--it never happened. Totally different conversation, and not circular at all, because you're peddling fiction.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

"You didn't evade properly"

You likely didn't.

shields going within seconds, and hull going down immediately thereafter.

In an engineered, A-rated Anaconda. Right. Mine must be magic, or something, because it can tank an entire wing without exploding in 15 seconds. It may not even lose shields. Even halfway engineered anacondas are capable of this.

I'm not the only one with this type of experience. I'm not exaggerating.

Yes. Yes, you are.

You dump on a positive thread with nonsense.

I provide facts and advice.

GG.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Yeah, see, I don't believe you. Literally what you're saying is mathematically impossible. It takes longer than 5 seconds to interdict even if you submit, and longer than 10 seconds to bring an Anaconda to 0 hitpoints. You haven't actually had this discussion before, because I'm not asking what you did, I'm telling you--directly--it never happened. Totally different conversation, and not circular at all, because you're peddling fiction.

As much as I hate to completely discount people's experiences, I have to agree with Warm.

Not that you didn't get blown up, but I don't think it happened the way you remember that it happened.

 

[sovapid]

As much as I hate to completely discount people's experiences, I have to agree with Warm.

Not that you didn't get blown up, but I don't think it happened the way you remember that it happened.

^this

 

[Toumal]

If I was the only one who experienced this, sure go ahead, dismiss me. But I am not. And the sad truth is, some of you know full well that I'm right and "play the forum meta", while others genuinely don't believe that such an experience could be possible because they haven't experienced it themselves.

Note that I'm also not talking about whether an attack was warranted or not, whether it was proper piracy, powerplay, etc. - all I'm saying is, if you claim that there's no way for a fully shielded and pretty reasonably well engineered Python to go down VERY quickly, you're simply wrong.

But again, there's something to be said about not even getting into the situation where you're interdicted. Which means not approaching any CG or prominent place in open, always watching who's swinging around behind you, and so forth. And hey, very often, you DO have plenty of time even when interdicted and attacked by another player. Because not every player has tuned his/her ship for the sole purpose of taking out other player ships.

 

[CariadocThorne]

So with all the talk about open/greifers/gankers. I decided to find out for myself what it is really like. I have played exclusively in open for the last seven days, and while your milage may vary, this is my experience. I have been attacked by other commanders a total of zero times. I went about my business as normal, visited Jameson, engineer sites, Merope, Maia...etc. I met a bunch of commanders, and chatted with many of them. I was asked if I wanted to fight on a number of times, but I was never attacked on a non- consensual basis. Granted I did not do this weeks CG, but I didn't have that on my agenda this week. Bottom line is that for me at least, open wan not really any different than PG where I usually play. I'll stick in open and report back in another week incase anyone cares, but at this point, in my experience, the problem seems exaggerated.

My experience has been similar, except I have played almost exclusively in Open (apart from the very occasional late night session in Solo when I'm chilling on the sofa with the wife, half-assedly playing on my laptop while watching mindless TV) for about two and a half years (I think, that was about when Horizons came out right?).

In that entire time, I have had 1 single experience of a player in a dedicated combat build interdicting me while I was in an obviously non-combat ship and simply blowing me up for the lulz. And I've only left the bubble once, for a roughly 20k LY trip, and I spend most of my time in reasonably populated areas (I'm usually based out of Diaguandri), so it's not like I'm just avoiding other players.

If you go to CGs, then sooner or later yoou will get interdicted, but even then it tends to be fairly friendly pirates who will let you go after you drop a few tonnes of cargo.

Meanwhile I've had friendly interactions with dozens of commander, ranging from miners sharing warnings about potential pirates they've seen in the area, to winging up with random strangers I've met in a RES, to being politely asked to help a rndom stranger test his latest PVP build (which stayed friendly and ended with him offering to go back to the station and pick up cargo, then eject it for me to pick up to cover my repair costs), to many hours spent chatting with other miners to pass the time as we watch our mining lasers and limpests do their work.


There are some people out there in Open whom the game would be beter off without, but for every one, there are dozens of friendly players who are happy to leave you alone, have a chat, or even wing up and play together with a total stranger, depending on your preference.

 

[Mouse]

My experience has been similar, except I have played almost exclusively in Open (apart from the very occasional late night session in Solo when I'm chilling on the sofa with the wife, half-assedly playing on my laptop while watching mindless TV) for about two and a half years (I think, that was about when Horizons came out right?).

In that entire time, I have had 1 single experience of a player in a dedicated combat build interdicting me while I was in an obviously non-combat ship and simply blowing me up for the lulz. And I've only left the bubble once, for a roughly 20k LY trip, and I spend most of my time in reasonably populated areas (I'm usually based out of Diaguandri), so it's not like I'm just avoiding other players.

If you go to CGs, then sooner or later yoou will get interdicted, but even then it tends to be fairly friendly pirates who will let you go after you drop a few tonnes of cargo.

Meanwhile I've had friendly interactions with dozens of commander, ranging from miners sharing warnings about potential pirates they've seen in the area, to winging up with random strangers I've met in a RES, to being politely asked to help a rndom stranger test his latest PVP build (which stayed friendly and ended with him offering to go back to the station and pick up cargo, then eject it for me to pick up to cover my repair costs), to many hours spent chatting with other miners to pass the time as we watch our mining lasers and limpests do their work.


There are some people out there in Open whom the game would be beter off without, but for every one, there are dozens of friendly players who are happy to leave you alone, have a chat, or even wing up and play together with a total stranger, depending on your preference.

This is great, but why then do people keep trying to force myself and others into Open?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

As I wrote in one of the duplicate threads: I left my house open and no burglar went in, so burglars don't exist and burglaries don't happen.

This is essentially what this thread is alleging.

You are building a strawman.
There is a lot of fear mongering re: open and it's valid to make counter-observations.

Ftr I ran 760 PP merits in open last night, in my Cutter with an undersized shield generator, eek!
Yet, I didn't see a single hollow square.

It's a really big playing field.

 

[CariadocThorne]

This is great, but why then do people keep trying to force myself and others into Open?

No-one is trying to force you anywhere. Some of us are posting our positive experience of Open to encourage others to at least give it a try, and to counteract the others running around posting (often highly exaggerated) horror stories and actively discouraging others from trying open.

It only matters when it comes to things like PP, where people doing it in solo/PG, is directly affecting those of us doing it in Open, with no way for us to counteract it.

 

[Mouse]

No-one is trying to force you anywhere. Some of us are posting our positive experience of Open to encourage others to at least give it a try, and to counteract the others running around posting (often highly exaggerated) horror stories and actively discouraging others from trying open.

It only matters when it comes to things like PP, where people doing it in solo/PG, is directly affecting those of us doing it in Open, with no way for us to counteract it.

And those in Open are directly affecting those playing PP in Solo/PG, to say there is no way to counteract it is hogwash. There has been ways since day one.

 

[RalphTheTheatreCat]

I've always played open. Not to say I would have had a different experience in solo because I spend a large proportion of my time in unpopulated areas.
I've come back to do a CG recently and I cannot praise the community enough. Every player I have met has been friendly and offered assistance to me. They have all chatted, taught me something or willingly shared the spoils at sites. I was only jumped at a site by one player who regretted the decision when the NPC's jumped in on him and then other live players took him down.

Its been a great experience the past week which makes me actually want to stay in the populated systems for a while.

 

[CariadocThorne]

And those in Open are directly affecting those playing PP in Solo/PG, to say there is no way to counteract it is hogwash. There has been ways since day one.

I'm sorry but that is fundamentally untrue.

It's like having a football (soccer) match played on two pitches simultaneously. On one, the normal rules of the game ar followed, and the match ends 2-1. On the other pitch, each player has their own ball, and is not allowed to defend or otherwise interact with other players. On this pitch the game ends 873-1186.

No matter how hard they try, the players on the first pitch simply can't match the influence, the players on the second pitch have on the result, and might as well not even bother playing.

PP is fundamentally a large scale PvP activity (sort of RvR really), with significant non-combat elements. Players who play without any interaction with other players have an unfair advantage and have a disproportionate influence on the outcome.

 

[surfin'bird]

90% of people's "Open" problems can be solved by keeping their head on a swivel and practicing their escape procedures.

This was true some time ago. It isn't anymore. Specialised gang groups of 4 engineered ships can even bring down Cutters if anything (!) goes wrong.

 

[Marra Morgan]

This was true some time ago. It isn't anymore. Specialised gang groups of 4 engineered ships can even bring down Cutters if anything (!) goes wrong.

And if you're keeping your head on a swivel as Vin suggests, you'll see them coming a mile away.

 

[Warm Considering]

No-one is trying to force you anywhere. Some of us are posting our positive experience of Open to encourage others to at least give it a try, and to counteract the others running around posting (often highly exaggerated) horror stories and actively discouraging others from trying open.

It only matters when it comes to things like PP, where people doing it in solo/PG, is directly affecting those of us doing it in Open, with no way for us to counteract it.

This is a lie. You do have a way to deal with it, by merely participating. Being a shared universe means it's a two way street. Sure, what they do affects you, but what you do affects them. Stop pretending it doesn't.

 

[Mouse]

I'm sorry but that is fundamentally untrue.

It's like having a football (soccer) match played on two pitches simultaneously. On one, the normal rules of the game ar followed, and the match ends 2-1. On the other pitch, each player has their own ball, and is not allowed to defend or otherwise interact with other players. On this pitch the game ends 873-1186.

No matter how hard they try, the players on the first pitch simply can't match the influence, the players on the second pitch have on the result, and might as well not even bother playing.

PP is fundamentally a large scale PvP activity (sort of RvR really), with significant non-combat elements. Players who play without any interaction with other players have an unfair advantage and have a disproportionate influence on the outcome.

The flaw in your analogy is that it isn't 2-1 and 873-1186 it is 875 to 1187, on BOTH pitches the score is the same as players work for both sides, those that oppose each other physically are not the ones playing by the "normal rules of the game" as the normal rules of the game are PVE mechanics not PVP ones. They chose to play on that "pitch" and claim anyone who doesn't is cheating... which again is malarkey.

 

[CariadocThorne]

The flaw in your analogy is that it isn't 2-1 and 873-1186 it is 875 to 1187, on BOTH pitches the score is the same as players work for both sides, those that oppose each other physically are not the ones playing by the "normal rules of the game" as the normal rules of the game are PVE mechanics not PVP ones. They chose to play on that "pitch" and claim anyone who doesn't is cheating... which again is malarkey.

No, PP is PvP, it is not PvE mechanics at all, it is literally groups of players competing against each other to expand their factions. PvP doesn't just mean combat you know.

It IS only 2-1 on one pitch, because on that pitch both sides are defending, which means they reduce the amount the other team score.

If I play PP in open, and you play it in solo, you will have a greater impact on the outcome of the PP cycle because you don't have to worry about opposing players. At best I will have to run a less optimised ship (like sacrificing cargo space for a bigger shield etc), and play more cautiously, at worst I will be interdicted and killed on some runs.