My new player experience (262 hours of play time) - It doesn't have to be this way

Linux Kernel

L
  • 2015:
    1. "Hey man, what's that game. Is it like EVE Online? I'll give it a try."
    2. "Cool we made lots of money trading. Did it actually matter though? Does it get used to build anything or is it just something to waste my time? Oh... well can you attack starports or cut off trade routes or actually affect anything? No. Meh..."
  • 2025:
    1. "It's been 10 years since I last tried Elite Dangerous. Let's see what it's like now. COLONIZATION!?!?!?! IT JUST CAME OUT LAST MONTH!?!?!?!? LET'S GOOOOOOOOOO!"
    2. Mining for money. Easy.
    3. Type-9. Find a system. "Cool I got a semi-rare star with lots of places to build."
    4. Hauling. zzzzzzzzzz
    5. "Well that sucked but at least it's done. Now what else can I build? There's no steel near me so let's do a refinery and some extraction facilities."
    6. Refinery done. Surface military outpost for more security. Nice! Can't land at the refinery though. Also the extraction facility (near a red dwarf with metal rings) construction pad is inside the red dwarf influence. Can't get to it. Ok... beta.
    7. Extraction around a small gas giant with metal rings. "Ok cool. Done. Wait... I left the system and came back and it isn't completing. And the construction yard is still there? Oh well."
    8. Try to build an agriculture facility around a moon in co-orbit with another moon. Can't land with any ship. It's moving too fast. Not even turning off flight assist works.
    9. "Is anybody else running into this? How am I supposed to make this refinery work so I can land there?" (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSuzxnuOdLg) "Oh it's totally broken. Well great. I'll wait until it gets fixed before building anything else."
    10. "I guess I'll explore around and do some combat." Saw a neutron star and a black hole. Probably the most fun I've had this whole game.
    11. "Let's try Powerplay!!!!!" Had some success. "Nice, but... any epic battles against players? In fact, are any of these other ships even players? Oh..." Apparently I've never seen another player in this game. "Ehh.... I like the different characters and stuff but I'm not grinding just so I can turn some triangles from one color to another on the map if it doesn't actually do anything meaningful."
    12. "Ok well let's go fight in one of those civil wars I saw on the map once." (A few moments later...) "Good god these guys take a lot of shots. I'm not really affecting anything at all. I must be doing something wrong. Let me go watch a combat guide...
    13. "Oh... I guess I need to do engineering. Let's figure out what that is. (One minute later) "Yeah no way, I'm not doing some galactic where's Waldo scavenger hunt" (Note: It has no impact on the galaxy or other players or the story or anything other than my ship capabilities. It's literally just a time sink for a game that isn't even paid for monthly. THERE'S NO REASON FOR YOU TO WASTE MY TIME JUMPING AROUND THE GALAXY NOT INTERACTING WITH OTHER PLAYERS. !!!!! WHO DESIGNED THIS ?!?!?!?!)
    14. "Well what do I do now?" ... look around the map "Hey cool that extraction facility back in my colony is finished. Let's go see what it does."
    15. "Oh it does nothing. I can't land at it either. I swear it said medium landing pads in the description. Also why is it an Industrial Facility? Not extraction?" (Bug I guess)
    16. BEEP BEEP BEEP! ALERT! THE FACILITY IS UNDER ATTACK WE NEED YOUR HELP! "Yeah! Dynamic event!" Eventually I figured out how to respond in the chat menu.
    17. I throw everything I have at them but barely get their shields down before they destroy 10/10 of the plasma cells or whatever. They jump away. "Engineering... why???????????? Well did they actually affect anything? Can't tell by looking at the stats on the facility. Oh well I guess it didn't matter."
    18. "Yeah this isn't working. I think I'm done. Everything in this game is a grind or a dead end. I'll log out in my colony station. Maybe it will still be here in 10 years when I try again.
    19. I fly back to the little outpost station that took me forever to build. Docking request denied. "Sometimes there's a slow ship taking off the only medium pad. No big deal. It'll be 30s at most."
    20. A Krait with a wanted tag lands on the pad and sits there for over a minute.
    21. I shoot the Krait. It's wanted right? I'll just pay the fine. No damage. "You can't damage ships sitting vulnerable on a pad in this game? Come on...."
    22. "What if I shoot the outpost?" <dies> "lol"
    23. "Well I'm 14 jumps away getting out of a prison. Let's disembark maybe the station is different than all the other stations."
    24. "Oh cool it is different! And there are some prison cells." Walks back to the ship. "Wait... nah what am I going home for?" Back into the prison cell. Close the door. Exit to desktop. Uninstall.
My experience wasn't that bad. There are far worse space games. What hurts the most is that this game has so much potential. So much low-hanging fruit. And all the developer effort put into this game is just to make more grind (Engineering, Powerplay, and maybe Thargoids although I never tried them).

This isn't a subscription game. You don't need to give me a grind to keep me chasing the end game so I keep paying monthly. Let the players make the game fun for you. Let them make their own powerplay. Just give them some simple trade, resource, territorial, and political tools to make all that happen themselves. Sure, give them some characters or something to champion, but you don't need to build a grind system for them. Let them blow up each other's stuff and fight over who controls the galaxy.

Speaking of blowing each other up. Where is everybody? I played open the whole time and maybe I saw a player once near the end when I went to Achenar. Are you all hiding in solo mode? Why does an "MMO" even have a solo mode? What is this game? Who is in charge here? How does a game have so many really awesome little things in it and then also just so many confusingly terrible things in it?

It's soooo sad that it's been 10 years and this game hasn't built on any of the things that made it so hypeable back in 2015. Also forget these Thargoids. There are no aliens. Humans only. Let us fight eachother in space. It's what humans do. I don't need some elaborate alien civilization backstory. I just want to defeat enemies for the Empire and expand humanity to Sagittarius A.

See you all in another 10 years. It was... sorta fun?
 

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aRJay

aRJay
Linux Kernel said:
...

Speaking of blowing each other up. Where is everybody? I played open the whole time and maybe I saw a player once near the end when I went to Achenar. Are you all hiding in solo mode?
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Ignoring the three modes people could be in and technicalities involved with creating an instance with another player who is playing at the same time as you. There are far more locations than players which makes encountering another one extremely unlikely unless you arrange things to improve you chances.
Linux Kernel said:
Why does an "MMO" even have a solo mode? What is this game?
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It is Elite reworked from the 1984 original, while it may be massive (billions of locations) and multiplayer (some say marginally) and is online that is about the limit of its similarity to a traditional MMO.
Linux Kernel said:
Who is in charge here?
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The game is essentially a sandbox so apart from things like the Thargoid War which finished last year there isn’t much story to Dungeon Master.
Linux Kernel said:
How does a game have so many really awesome little things in it and then also just so many confusingly terrible things in it?
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Because it has so much room for things, even things we don’t like, and all of them are pretty much optional.
Linux Kernel said:
It's soooo sad that it's been 10 years and this game hasn't built on any of the things that made it so hypeable back in 2015.
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I have only been playing for just under 9 years but I am grateful that despite the efforts of some on the forums I still get to play the game I bought of course there is stuff I wish they would add but there is even more stuff I wish they wouldn’t and there is some stuff I wish they hadn’t added (or at least not in the way they did).
Linux Kernel said:
Also forget these Thargoids. There are no aliens. Humans only. Let us fight eachother in space. It's what humans do. I don't need some elaborate alien civilization backstory. I just want to defeat enemies for the Empire and expand humanity to Sagittarius A.

See you all in another 10 years. It was... sorta fun?
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Hopefully I will still be here by then.
 

Helmut Grokenberger

Helmut Grokenberger
Is this the right time to do the "space is big" spiel?

Apart from that, the first misconception is that Elite is an MMO comparable to tradtional MMOs. Ask me, it isn't one in the first place, it is a space game with a shared universe and optional multiplayer, and placing it against traditional MMOs by using "massively multiplayer space epic" might have been a mistake.

Tying into that, it's also a misconception that gameplay is player driven in any way. It isn't, this isn't EVE. If you expected EVE with cockpits, it is understandable you are disappointed.
 

Linux Kernel

L
aRJay said:
The game is essentially a sandbox
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Yes. It's a sandbox where in order to get any of the tools to build anything you have to step out of the sandbox and go swing on the swing alone for several hours, then go push the merry go round by yourself for more hours. Then you can come back and play in the sandbox. A good sandbox game rewards you for doing sandbox things. I was doing fine just completing little mining missions or bounty missions for fun to try and help out different factions. Then, the game told me to go do a scavenger hunt for no reason.
Helmut Grokenberger said:
Apart from that, the first misconception is that Elite is an MMO comparable to tradtional MMOs.
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Yes. It's a single-player game with none of the things that make single-player games fun. The fact that it allows a shared open world makes it look like an MMO; probably with the intent of bringing that audience in. It worked.
Tifu said:
Wrong demographic, the last thing ED is like is Eve. Is something wrong with Eve btw? Why are we getting stragglers from that MMO?
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EVE is an awesome game but it's not meant for casuals. Elite appears to be an MMO like EVE but with a bigger universe, more exciting combat, and some decent guardrails in place to make it so newer players or more casual players aren't overwhelmed. That would be great, but Elite doesn't even achieve that. Apparently that's not even the goal.

With EVE, you have some fun and then realize "I need to dedicate my life to this if I want to have any real impact." But you CAN have real impact. Elite looks like the kind of game where anybody can come in and be a part of something without that level of dedication. Colonization, for example, lets you build something cool after a couple of weeks of play. Great! Sure a casual will never build a station around a black hole that becomes semi-famous or build a chain of stations out to some special location, but that's fine. Maybe they'll build something that other players can use to get materials they need (when they eventually fix colonization and system economy). That's great! That's fun! That's the kind of thing I could maybe convince my friends to come work on with me.

Elite could be EVE but with a flatter more accessible progression structure where skill is more important than time and investment, and in a bigger more exciting galaxy. Maybe it's intended to be a single-player game with pointless multiplayer, but that's sad. That's missing out on the game's potential.

Speaking of EVE...I should go try that again. Isn't it F2P now up to at least some minimal level? Great idea to try it again.
 

Kamiyoda

Kamiyoda
Helmut Grokenberger said:
Is this the right time to do the "space is big" spiel?

Apart from that, the first misconception is that Elite is an MMO comparable to tradtional MMOs. Ask me, it isn't one in the first place, it is a space game with a shared universe and optional multiplayer, and placing it against traditional MMOs by using "massively multiplayer space epic" might have been a mistake.

Tying into that, it's also a misconception that gameplay is player driven in any way. It isn't, this isn't EVE. If you expected EVE with cockpits, it is understandable you are disappointed.
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Yeah honestly nothing in Elite is really "and MMO" aside from the most literal interpretation of the phrase, and at the point any online game is an MMO

Brrokk said:
I actually read through the long post expecting to find this. :)
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You should make a bingo game out if it
 

Koma Pahu

Koma Pahu
Helmut Grokenberger said:
It's funny how people who don't like or even actively dislike the game tend to redefine what the game should be.
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I mean it’s got so little to offer that I’ve put in approx 4,000 hours, across 2 accounts (not including the Odyssey alpha), but I’m sure someone who didn’t like the game in 2015 and doesn’t seem to like it much now is knows exactly what’s wrong with it.
 
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Linux Kernel

L
Brrokk said:
I actually read through the long post expecting to find this. :)
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So the point of a multiplayer game is to... not have any multiplayer interaction? Sounds like this is a common complaint. Maybe people are trying to give helpful feedback. The funny thing is I'm not even a big PVP guy. I was just flying around building things and I expected at least SOME danger in a game with "Dangerous" in the title. Heck, my standards for PVP are low. I expected to maybe see somebody else doing something interesting? Some emergent gameplay maybe? Even just running around World of Warcraft seeing other people jumping and emoting is a more engaging multiplayer experience than this.
Helmut Grokenberger said:
No thank you.
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There it is. You nailed it. EVE is the most successful online space game in history and Elite is not. And apparently you're fine with the game being basically dead (that's fine that's your right). All my friends were like "isn't Elite a dead game now" and I said "but Colonization is bringing back so many players you can see they are getting close to some of their higher historical player stats!" and then they come into the game for a couple of hours and were like "yeah you have a space station but now what?". It's impossible to get people to stick with this game because it doesn't capitalize on its inherent good qualities (large galaxy, detailed systems, fun ship flying, cool lore). EVE, despite all of the tradeoffs that ultimately make it not friendly for casual players, capitalized on all of its good qualities.

So yes. Exactly. Elite is not EVE and it doesn't have to be. We don't want a copy paste of EVE and that's not what I'm recommending. It could be as engaging as EVE because all the pieces are there and have been for 10 years, but it won't be if they don't capitalize on them and keep making features that take you away from the core exciting mechanics that made the game so hyped 10 years ago.

Here's an interesting comparison. Survival games. They had a similar situation where people tried several different ways of making them until one day a developer finally found the formula that made survival games explode in popularity. Elite is obviously not a survival game, but strangely it shares so many similarities to DayZ (super-hypeable but ultimately no sticking power). Here's a great analysis about game design that applies SO MUCH to Elite Dangeous despite being a completely different genre.


Anyway. I've given my feedback. Take it or leave it. Again, Elite has a lot of fun things in it that I love, but I'm not sticking around because it does not use its best qualities to achieve its true potential. It's that simple, and clearly I'm not the only one.
 
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Helmut Grokenberger

Helmut Grokenberger
Koma Pahu said:
Ah, yes the perennial claim that the game is dead!
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I think we have another bingo. We're on a roll tonight!

Linux Kernel said:
There it is. You nailed it. EVE is the most successful online space game in history and Elite is not.
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It is also the most toxic one. I am guessing there is a reason why the people who love ED, which is, in the grand scale of things, a rather chill game, mostly avoid EVE. People like different things.

Linux Kernel said:
And apparently you're fine with the game being basically dead (that's fine that's your right). All my friends were like "isn't Elite a dead game now"
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Yep. Totally dead. No ten thousand players just on Steam an hour ago (yay, Steam charts!). Do other games have more players? Certainly. Did Elite have way less players during your "hiatus" (if we're generous and call playing the game for two days "playing")? You betcha. But sure. It is dead. It's pushing up the daisies. It's joined the choir invisible.

Linux Kernel said:
EVE, despite all of the tradeoffs that ultimately make it not friendly for casual players, capitalized on all of its good qualities.
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Well, there you go. Just play EVE then.

Linux Kernel said:
Anyway. I've given my feedback. Take it or leave it. Again, Elite has a lot of fun things in it that I love, but I'm not sticking around because it does not use its best qualities to achieve its true potential. It's that simple, and clearly I'm not the only one.
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Something about airports and all that.
 

Mohrgan

Mohrgan
If memory serves... There was a ton of discussion, when ED was in development still, about simply not making an Eve in a cockpit. And still, after ten years, it still holds up. ED is not an Eve clone. I have a dormant Eve account. Wasn't/Isn't my thing. I've been playing ED since it's release (69w, 6d, 11h in game). Need I say more?
 
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