Yes, but if a game only has graphics to go on, it's not a game anymore... And refilling feeders and shooting a sick dino every 10-5 mins is not management, its a menial task, that you can't even automate.
My Thoughts After 25 Hours from a JPOG Fan
- Thread starter raptor236
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Yes, but if a game only has graphics to go on, it's not a game anymore... And refilling feeders and shooting a sick dino every 10-5 mins is not management, its a menial task, that you can't even automate.
Have you ever had a job? That's all management is, just a bunch of menial tasks. You are aware you don't have to drive the vehicles right? You can just send them to do it.
It sounds to me like you just don't like management sims and are just looking for any reason to trash the game.
I listed more than graphics by the way. I said several things that made the game vastly superior to JPOG.
But just keep going with your blind fanboyism and nostalgia glasses. LOL
So JPOG had a lot of depth and a story now? LOL
Stop being ridiculous.
And you sound like you're being paid to excuse anything bad about this game. It's still a game, not a job, I've played through hours of planet coaster and roller coaster tycoon, planet coaster, rimworld, simcity, and more and nothing has felt as menial and padded gameplay as this. Especially since herbivores actually graze when idle, and you still have to fill feeders because there is little else to do.
Here’s a couple of comparison as to why JPOG beats JWE
JPOG had AI that could have complex interactions with each other.... if JPOG was buffed up and rebuilt from the ground up containing all the things the original had JWE would have nothing on it, i’ll Give you 2 examples.
JPOG: Raptors attack and get hurt by electric fence, once the fence is sufficiently damaged they climb out.
JWE: raptors head butt their way out of electrified reinforced concrete walls.
JPOG: carnivores have a need to hunt, they will only hunt if they need to or if they’re hungry.
JWE: carnivores go on mass killing sprees killing every herbivore around them.
Not difficult to see which one is more complex or better...
I could go on with many other reasons, but your the type of person who likes there animals to be robotic clones of one another so i’ll Just leave it at them 2...
We could go onto ratings ign gave JPOG a 5.9/10 still low but beats a 4.8/10 for JWE
And how are people who compair JPOG to JWE blinder by fanboyism... if anything your the one blinded by your narrow fanboyism of JWE, everyone who compairs JWE to JPOG just wants to make the game better that this steaming pile of dung we have right to now
And there’s also more to depth than story alone JPOG was far better at giving the illusion of life that this game with its 3 animation cycle. Bipolar Sauropods Jesus Christ! Need we say more?
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That´s not a qualitative statement. Even through I´ve got my problems (and in case you do not understand that life isn´t just black and white) and also my joy with JWE I would never dare to say something like it´s "garbage". You put your Ego perspective into your statement without real critics and arguments, but let´s see what you´ve got.
Nope. It´s just annoying work after all without any real value for the gameplay. Think about it. What kind of joy or real value is in such a task in a game? None.
True thing. But you do know, that this is the same thing like in JPOG? It´s 100% similiar. Btw the illnesses feel all the same. So there´s nothing on that point, that give JWE any kind of more "alive" animals than JPOG. Just sayin.
and?? I don´t get your point on that. You think they looked ugly even when JPOG where released 15 years ago? And? The looks make things nicer, but it does not have any effect of the gameplay.
You´re talking about a game that were made 15 years ago. Technology wasn´t always the way it is right now. You know that right?
I really wish I would be happy only with nice looking pixels. There would be so much other games to discover outthere with no story, gameplay or anything important, But with pretty looks. Not really an attack on JWE. I mean in general.
Mods are made by the community. Not the developers. The difference is that the community is not made of 100% professional gaming artists or how ever you call all of the different sides of the game-development-process in one english word. It´s no criteria.
And your point is?
I hope so.
Nope. No value for the gameplay at all. Only fan service and "nostalgia"... "LOL"But the really great thing that JWE has that JPOG didn't? The 1993 JP Jeep.It makes JWE so much better.
... Just sayin ...
Oh and one last thing friend. The whole discussion was never about taste. It´s not about "what is better a or b?" It´s about the fundamental framework of JWE compared to the only game, that we can compare JWE with. It´s no nostalgia, but a fundamental debate.
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I know ... and I did it for a very long time, but it become worse and worse how the trolls behave without any limitation from the admins...
Anyways. I have got one last thought for this topic. When I am thinking about myself and why I even reacted to this thread, than I realized, that it´s not only because we do not have many videogames to compare our JWE with. I believe, and perhaps some of you agree with me on that, JWE does feel like JPOG, but prettier to me. They´re many things used from the JPOG gameplay. Perhaps that´s why I am feeling like some of the base construct is missing. JWE does feel like a sequal to me even through I know it isn´t. In fact the only "real" issue I have with the game (in the sense of reduce the fun to me) is the size of the islands. I really do think that feeling of beeing that much reduced in my creativity is what stings me. What´s your thought? If you people, who feel the same way I do or you who do not (you are all welcome to discuss with us
), could name the 1 thing that makes it "sting" to you what would that be? I believe if frontier will take a look on this thread such a turn of the debate could be interessting for them. So what´s your thoughts?
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I know ... and I did it for a very long time, but it become worse and worse how the trolls behave without any limitation from the admins...
Anyways. I have got one last thought for this topic. When I am thinking about myself and why I even reacted to this thread, than I realized, that it´s not only because we do not have many videogames to compare our JWE with. I believe, and perhaps some of you agree with me on that, JWE does feel like JPOG, but prettier to me. They´re many things used from the JPOG gameplay. Perhaps that´s why I am feeling like some of the base construct is missing. JWE does feel like a sequal to me even through I know it isn´t. In fact the only "real" issue I have with the game (in the sense of reduce the fun to me) is the size of the islands. I really do think that feeling of beeing that much reduced in my creativity is what stings me. What´s your guys thought? If you people, who feel the same way I do or of course do not (you are all welcome to discuss with us
I agree in some respects, but there’s a heck of a lot missing from this game that it’s spiritual predecessor had the AI to say the least the animals need far more and far better interactions with each other, carnivores, herbivores they all need to interact far better than they do currently, better escape animations just something to add depth to the game, it’s beautiful but it doesn’t matter how viticulture it is when it’s as hollow as it is..
Someone elsewhere said that they would rather have a dinosaur cap than a cap on space and in many ways I think they could be right so long as the cap is higher than 60 one of the only things that used to irritate me in JPOG, but then again I love creating immense parks.... by the time
I’ve used all the space I have less than 100 dinos anyway..
I totally understand your view friend
And that of your post I quote here is exactly the one thing I can not do in JWE XDAnd that´s my problem with the size to me actually. I always build huge enclosers. And I love that and can not stop
I try to give the animals the space they would need in real life. And there´s my trouble. I made on Nublar 8 enclosers (all were to small in my opinion but large enough for not feeling like a cruel human beeing). The problem on that is, that I was only be able having about 10 of 42 species in my park. [knocked out]How is AI that does more than roam and socialise bad AI? You contradict your self over and over JPOG has bad AI?
Cos it’s AI can sleep, poo, hunt, herd, pack hunt, make pack Alphas and Betas, it’s AI can choose multiple weak points in fencing to break out not just a single spot over and over that just happens to be where the path is for the guests. Oh yeah then the AI can socialise aswell. Need I go on?!
I think theres plenty of pros and cons flying about on here. I think what we can all admit is that there are some things that should probably be worked on, and that direct comparisons to JPOG are probably not as helpful as disscussions about JWE on its own, and its flaws/pros alone.
After all we are all dinosaur fans and wanna see this game become what we all hope it will. ^^
After all we are all dinosaur fans and wanna see this game become what we all hope it will. ^^
Hmmm, I’m not feeling this at all, we where discussing pros and cons of both games it’s not our fault there’s so few pros for JWE.
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This isn't really a comment on OP's post. Just posting a general observation about JWE vs. JPOG. There are of course complaints in reviews of both gamemag reviewers and new owners about the JWE initial pricing of $60. Consider that due to inflation, $60 today is approximately $43.88 back in 2003 which is when JPOG was released for about $40. So JPOG if released today would also have a hefty price tag closer to $60 as well. Anyways, hopefully Frontier's future free & paid updates for JWE will be substantial.
There is also this video "objectively" comparing JWE with JPOG (including gameplay video of JPOG ), o7
There is also this video "objectively" comparing JWE with JPOG (including gameplay video of JPOG ), o7
[video=youtube;aWggGOMn3-Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWggGOMn3-Y[/video]
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I sincerely can't imagine someone believing JPOG has better AI than JWE.
JPOG has no depth at all. I decided to play it after not playing it for 9 years while waiting for JWE and it's hell winthout mods.
The AI is extremely stupidc the Raptors will slowly walk towards a goat corpse at the other side of the enclosure and eventually go on a rampage because it dissapeared before they could eat it, same with big Carns not being able to kill goats.
Most carnivores would not be able to get to the goats and would enter in Rampages, herbivores would die of thirst inside a lake and all dinsoaur for some reason entered the water and didn't leave it once.
JPOG aged like exposed milk in the sun, saying that it's better than JWE is a lie in every possible way, JWE has better everything, and no, JPOG having sleeping or dynamic attacks doesn't make it better, because they worked like trash in JPOG and you know it, dinosaurs would enter comatose because they would rather sleep than eat and drink. And don't get me started on the guest AI.
JPOG was a average game, it's almost unplayable winthout mods, the game was good over 10 years ago, but it did not age well and is not close to being good or better than JWE. It's not even a opinion, it's a fact that JWE is better, saying it isn't is being in denial. Also, the Raptor climbing fence is not AI, it's a scrippted animation.
Another thing, why would Herbivores fight while calm? In JWE herbivores don't fight unless stressed because that makes sense, why else would they enter in deadly combat? They are all females, there is no competition for mates and such.
JWE is nowhere perfect, but saying JPOG is better than it is so downgrading that it's actually insulting, even more because you probably haven't played vanilla JPOG in years and you are saying it out of nostalgia or you spent so much time on a heavely modded JPOG that can barely run 10 minutes winthout crashing that you forgot how vanilla was. Seriously, do you purposely ignore the multiple errors in JPOG? The AI is simply terrible, it doesn't matter what it has if it's all poorly excuted.
Also, most of your review was nitpicking, you complain about the JW art style as if it was any worse than the ugly buildings in JPOG
I have almost 90 hours in JWE and I probably have over 300 in JPOG since I played it everyday when I came home from school when I was small. JPOG is not a great game, you remember it as one, but it's not.
I don't hate JPOG, never did, it was part of my childhood, but it simply isn't good at this time and age.
Also, please don't use mods to argue if it's better, if a game needs mods to be good, then it's not good at all.
JPOG has no depth at all. I decided to play it after not playing it for 9 years while waiting for JWE and it's hell winthout mods.
The AI is extremely stupidc the Raptors will slowly walk towards a goat corpse at the other side of the enclosure and eventually go on a rampage because it dissapeared before they could eat it, same with big Carns not being able to kill goats.
Most carnivores would not be able to get to the goats and would enter in Rampages, herbivores would die of thirst inside a lake and all dinsoaur for some reason entered the water and didn't leave it once.
JPOG aged like exposed milk in the sun, saying that it's better than JWE is a lie in every possible way, JWE has better everything, and no, JPOG having sleeping or dynamic attacks doesn't make it better, because they worked like trash in JPOG and you know it, dinosaurs would enter comatose because they would rather sleep than eat and drink. And don't get me started on the guest AI.
JPOG was a average game, it's almost unplayable winthout mods, the game was good over 10 years ago, but it did not age well and is not close to being good or better than JWE. It's not even a opinion, it's a fact that JWE is better, saying it isn't is being in denial. Also, the Raptor climbing fence is not AI, it's a scrippted animation.
Another thing, why would Herbivores fight while calm? In JWE herbivores don't fight unless stressed because that makes sense, why else would they enter in deadly combat? They are all females, there is no competition for mates and such.
JWE is nowhere perfect, but saying JPOG is better than it is so downgrading that it's actually insulting, even more because you probably haven't played vanilla JPOG in years and you are saying it out of nostalgia or you spent so much time on a heavely modded JPOG that can barely run 10 minutes winthout crashing that you forgot how vanilla was. Seriously, do you purposely ignore the multiple errors in JPOG? The AI is simply terrible, it doesn't matter what it has if it's all poorly excuted.
Also, most of your review was nitpicking, you complain about the JW art style as if it was any worse than the ugly buildings in JPOG
I have almost 90 hours in JWE and I probably have over 300 in JPOG since I played it everyday when I came home from school when I was small. JPOG is not a great game, you remember it as one, but it's not.
I don't hate JPOG, never did, it was part of my childhood, but it simply isn't good at this time and age.
Also, please don't use mods to argue if it's better, if a game needs mods to be good, then it's not good at all.
I must have played JPOG for a few hundred hours at least, never came close to it being as unstable as you describe it, perhaps your system was acting up? You are purposely exaggerating every point you are making against JPOG, true some AI routines were flawed, but considering how complex they were for the time, and how deep the overall experience was (dino interactions, management, research and progression and guest satisfaction) it makes JWE look that much shallower for a supposed “AAA” title in 2018. The Dino AI in JPOG runs circles around the AI in JWE and that is an objective fact. You are being in damage control mode 101, which sadly makes it hard to take anything you wrote seriously.
JWE has little management. Assigning resupplies and medication shots when they're needed isn't management.
To elaborate:
> Where's the need to adjust what's sold in the stores? Every store on every island in my save sells the same thing with no ill effects and still 5* rating.
> No setting of ticket prices at all.
> No need to adjust retail prices, as money isn't a problem.
> There's no budget balancing (except VERY early in each island - and even that's a stretch to call it balancing. It's merely waiting for the cash to accumulate) or need to worry about cash at all. Money is far too easy to generate, the operating costs laughably small. A dino park that costs under $100,000 in terms of day-to-day costs? That's quite jarring.
> No staff management (aside from the option to add extra staff to stores, which I've never had to do despite hitting 5* ratings)
> No budgets for stores/ACU/Rangers. Not running costs, which are there, but changeable budgets that effect performance, etc.
> No training for staff members.
> No staff members at all, really. All staff perform the same. No individuality. No staff progression, monitoring, hiring/firing to speak of.
> PR/Marketing/Advertising none existent. Oh, three raptors and t-rex ran through an killed 6 guests. Oh well, people still gonna visit.
> Guest management is far too simple. The guests are a hive mind, there's no need to cater for "factions"/personality types.
> No huge fallout from guest deaths. Lose money in a lawsuit (irrelevant as you're raking in cash) and rating drops for a minute and rebuilds by itself without intervention. That's it.
> No variations on individual stores/outlets/facilities. Small/Medium/Large varieties of each, maybe? Closest we have is "Do I pick restaurant or fast food?" which from my experience has negligible effect anyway.
> No variations on hotels. They're all carbon-copies.
> The genome manipulation is something I've never *HAD* to do, aside from satisfying the contracts that come in. By that, I mean I never - contracts aside - felt I HAD to alter the genome for progression. I've done it out of choice (such as skin colouration changes), but, contracts aside, I guess I could play through with zero adaptations and still 5* the parks. Overall, it doesn't add much at all. Skin changes are very pretty, yes, but the whole thing feels far too shallow. The needs of the dinosaur remain the same for a "pure breed" vs one that's been spliced to high-heaven.
> The trailer showed workers performing maintenance on a park fence, which led to a T-Rex breakout and general carnage. Where's that? Instead the rangers drive up, click, and POOF! Done. Where's the routine and preventative maintenance? There is zero danger to staff, so they don't need managing, just occasional task assignment.
> Some building upgrades are useless. Reduced running costs? Mate, I'm making $500k per minute, running costs are irrelevant.
To elaborate:
> Where's the need to adjust what's sold in the stores? Every store on every island in my save sells the same thing with no ill effects and still 5* rating.
> No setting of ticket prices at all.
> No need to adjust retail prices, as money isn't a problem.
> There's no budget balancing (except VERY early in each island - and even that's a stretch to call it balancing. It's merely waiting for the cash to accumulate) or need to worry about cash at all. Money is far too easy to generate, the operating costs laughably small. A dino park that costs under $100,000 in terms of day-to-day costs? That's quite jarring.
> No staff management (aside from the option to add extra staff to stores, which I've never had to do despite hitting 5* ratings)
> No budgets for stores/ACU/Rangers. Not running costs, which are there, but changeable budgets that effect performance, etc.
> No training for staff members.
> No staff members at all, really. All staff perform the same. No individuality. No staff progression, monitoring, hiring/firing to speak of.
> PR/Marketing/Advertising none existent. Oh, three raptors and t-rex ran through an killed 6 guests. Oh well, people still gonna visit.
> Guest management is far too simple. The guests are a hive mind, there's no need to cater for "factions"/personality types.
> No huge fallout from guest deaths. Lose money in a lawsuit (irrelevant as you're raking in cash) and rating drops for a minute and rebuilds by itself without intervention. That's it.
> No variations on individual stores/outlets/facilities. Small/Medium/Large varieties of each, maybe? Closest we have is "Do I pick restaurant or fast food?" which from my experience has negligible effect anyway.
> No variations on hotels. They're all carbon-copies.
> The genome manipulation is something I've never *HAD* to do, aside from satisfying the contracts that come in. By that, I mean I never - contracts aside - felt I HAD to alter the genome for progression. I've done it out of choice (such as skin colouration changes), but, contracts aside, I guess I could play through with zero adaptations and still 5* the parks. Overall, it doesn't add much at all. Skin changes are very pretty, yes, but the whole thing feels far too shallow. The needs of the dinosaur remain the same for a "pure breed" vs one that's been spliced to high-heaven.
> The trailer showed workers performing maintenance on a park fence, which led to a T-Rex breakout and general carnage. Where's that? Instead the rangers drive up, click, and POOF! Done. Where's the routine and preventative maintenance? There is zero danger to staff, so they don't need managing, just occasional task assignment.
> Some building upgrades are useless. Reduced running costs? Mate, I'm making $500k per minute, running costs are irrelevant.
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paleostudent
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