Nav Beacon Discussion - How to make Beacons relevant and engaging!

That's the idea already. Low wakes won't get grabbed into the instance but incoming high wakers will.

Basically multiple jumps through inhabited space will become as slow and tedious as walking through treacle.

Read the original post - this was covered. Landing in a system would allow you some space to supercruise/scoop/jump to a new system, but you can also fly through the nav beacon.

I just had a thought. What if they left the current mechanics as-is where you enter all systems in supercruise. As long as you stay near the star, you can fuel scoop and move on without interruption. When you arrive in a populated system with a nav beacon, you get a comm from the local security stating that if you wish to travel within the system (ie move away from the sun to travel to any planets, stations, etc) you must first drop into the nav beacon first - as kind of like a customs checkpoint. You could ignore this and travel in-system without dropping into the nav beacon first, but system authority ships would chase you and try to interdict you.

IMO this would be the best of all worlds. You aren't inconvenienced if you are just "passing through". It adds more interaction and makes the game feel more alive. You can still smuggle by trying to "run the blockade", but it makes things more interesting.

Read the original post - this was covered. An idea was thrown out for perks to visiting the beacon and detriments to bypassing it.
 
Just another thought ocurred to me; this mechanic would kill pvp in the habited/non anarchy system, on one hand it can mean no more newbie killers in eravate and such, but on the other hand pvpers would hate this and although I'm not pvp lover, sometimes I indulge in pvp especially against wanted cmdrs, but how would they be able to get past the nav beacons then?
 
Just another thought ocurred to me; this mechanic would kill pvp in the habited/non anarchy system, on one hand it can mean no more newbie killers in eravate and such, but on the other hand pvpers would hate this and although I'm not pvp lover, sometimes I indulge in pvp especially against wanted cmdrs, but how would they be able to get past the nav beacons then?

Being wanted has more or less no consequence as is. I think a change along this line would be for the better. Now you can be wanted AND live a dangerous life.
 
No, universally forcing players out of supercruise is a bad idea. In system jumping takes away supercruise and interdictions, rendering piracy nearly impossible outside of a (theoretically from your intro) heavily policed nav beacons and making travel across the bubble and through systems a huge pain.
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Nav beacons are not pointless, they broadcast the station info and the location of the system in Morse code (go have a listen, I assume it's the system id, I don't speak morse). Why are the NPCs there? I don't know, good question. Let's give them a reason to be there rather than just to "hang out".
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Ask yourself this? Why would I want to go to a nav beacon?
Answer: To meet up with someone, wing beacons make this a little less relevant, but in the absence of winging with someone, it's a handy, near entry location to meet up.
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So lets give players a reason to go there and meet up with the "people" we can't wing with. NPCs!
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What if you could go to a nav beacon to try to make a contact with a black market rep? (yeah, black markets should be removed from the maps and access should be earned, not default)
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What if there were various vendors at the nav beacon? You know, those "buying technology" guys that randomly show up in a USS, they'd make a lot more money if they were somewhere I could find them. It would give traders the chance to pop in and sell their goods on the quick, without that long supercruise, no doubt there would be a whole armada of T9s there waiting to take your goods.
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(deja vu)What if there were various vendors at the nav beacon? As a pirate that would be a really promising prospect, assuming you can get some of their loot before the fuzz show up, or your swarmed en masse. Fortune favors the bold, the quick and the sneaky.
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What if you could buy complete cartograhpic and/or trade data for the system? It's already a contact, just select it, scroll down to "purchase local cartographic information" and you now can free up that ADS slot to carry something else, and you don't have to go back and purchase an ADS to find the planet you want to land on. From a trade perspective it could save you a lot of time looking for a good place to sell some goods, but it also makes you a vulnerable target while you drop out.
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So why doesn't this happen already? I don't think the AI is there, but it is improving. For these scenarios to be believable the AI needs to be smart enough that an organic flow of events occurs all spread out as wide as a conflict zone (often spreading 8-15 km away from the center), that could potentially be a mass of traders, pirates and bounty hunters 20km from one end to the other.
  1. Traders set up shop to make some quick money buying and selling goods.
  2. Pirates come to prey on the traders (which are somewhat safe-ish due to numbers)
  3. Police and bounty hunters show up to put down the pirates to keep business in teh system good.
  4. Traders come and go as their cargo holds fill up. (both into and out of the system and from the station to the nav beacon)
  5. repeat


An ebb and flow of trade, piracy and security forms. Trader/vendors pushing for the relative safety of the center of the hub (the actual beacon) warn away competing trade/vendor ships from encroaching on their corner of the area, smaller more timid trader/vendors spend their time out on the fringes keeping an eye out for pirates, praying a well armed bounty hunter might show up to poke around.
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They shouldn't ever become a place to "farm", that's dull and stagnant, they need to be dynamic, a place you want to swing by, check the situation and go on about your business, the water cooler/snack table of the system. Turnover needs to be very quick, things in constant motion, nobody around for more than a few minutes.
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But the AI isn't there yet, pirates just attack traders until they die, only fleeing when it's far too late, traders are the same, choosing death rather than abandonment except in rare cases. Security forces linger too long, as if there is nothing else to do in the system, they should come in, smash whats going on, see that things have quieted down, and then head out to deal with some other situation elsewhere (this is a rather dystopian future, cops should be at a premium), indeed, in low security systems the nav beacons might be almost entirely dependent on freelance bounty hunters and well armed traders (pythons and condas) to keep things relatively secure, but prices would be better.
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Just imagine being a trader, not knowing if that python is a bounty hunter watching your back or a trader coming to make a deal or a pirate lining you up to take his first shot, would your nerves hold in a little T6, you could make a lot of money, but you could also lose it all. Imagine being a pirate not knowing if there are any bounty hunters around, looking over your shoulder before you move in to make a grab for some goods. Imagine as a bounty hunter, dropping in and scanning around, checking up on things, looking for a juicy target and catching a pirate in the act.
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What they should not be is a mandatory stopover to do anything in the system. You're gonig to make me slow down to 1Mm/s and drop out of supercruise so I can be scanned, pirated or at best, just inhibited from actually playing the game? That's a terrible idea, mechanics should be incentivized, not forced. If you have to force something to be included because it is otherwise useless, it's a bad mechanic and would be better off just eliminated.
 
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NecoMachina

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I thought the OP has added that into his 1st post already...
My bad, i didn't see that edit. The idea there is very similar to mine, but he suggests a forced interdiction as you move away from the star. i'm suggesting that system security ASKS you to drop into nav beacon, and you can "run the blockade" by refusing, which would cause them to chase you in supercruise.
 
My bad, i didn't see that edit. The idea there is very similar to mine, but he suggests a forced interdiction as you move away from the star. i'm suggesting that system security ASKS you to drop into nav beacon, and you can "run the blockade" by refusing, which would cause them to chase you in supercruise.

Further along in the post - the second quote - suggests a requested drop with many benefits, or detriments to ignoring the hail. A lot of his suggestions are good.

I think we're all on the same page as far as "let's make the nav beacons more useful."
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
I like the ideas presented here on making beacons meaningful. Great compilation! I think it makes a lot of sense from a gameplay perspective.
 
Read the original post - this was covered. Landing in a system would allow you some space to supercruise/scoop/jump to a new system, but you can also fly through the nav beacon.

Ah I missed that. But it still sounds tedious to put players through extra loading screens in order to dock at port. Especially if they're law abiding and don't need to dodge the pat downs.

I like the idea but it needs a lot of refinement to avoid being a chore to almost everyone. Sounds great on paper but I think people would hate it after about one day.

Main problem is that every inhabited system has a beacon. The idea of having relevant blockades and whatnot is great, but those should be reserved for the heavy miltary or pirate run systems, which kind of breaks off into separate idea territory from beacons since those are everywhere.
 
From a PP perspective it might be OK if some other big changes are made to reflect the new danger of trying to enter a blockaded system. For example if ALD decided to blockade a smaller faction it could be very OP and impossible to fortify. You would get a huge number of players switching to single player too. There is an I win button for these kind of changes and its logging out of open.

A major technical issue right now is that you come out of hyperspace into a system instance, i guess it would mean moving the nav beacon out of its own instance, which I like a lot just for the sake of the game play. But given the design, who knows if it is possible or not.

I think its worth further discussion though. The game really suffers from over instancing. We know instancing is needed, but when and why you use it has to be limited in an MMO or you create islands of single players doing single player things.
 
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Ah I missed that. But it still sounds tedious to put players through extra loading screens in order to dock at port. Especially if they're law abiding and don't need to dodge the pat downs.

I like the idea but it needs a lot of refinement to avoid being a chore to almost everyone. Sounds great on paper but I think people would hate it after about one day.

Main problem is that every inhabited system has a beacon. The idea of having relevant blockades and whatnot is great, but those should be reserved for the heavy miltary or pirate run systems, which kind of breaks off into separate idea territory from beacons since those are everywhere.

Well, that's why we're all discussing it here. None of these ideas are likely to be implemented given the pace of development, but we can dream, right?
 
I dont see what's the big deal about blockade. Depending on security level, start by sending in a wing of vipers. If wanted players trying to camp the beacon kill them, spawn in a couple of minutes a wing of vultures. If they kill them and its high security system, start spawning 2-3 wings of fdls and cutters/corvettes/condas depending on system allegiance every five minutes and its going to be like 6 star GTA chase for them..if they manage to deal with that they truly deserve to blockade the system then.

This would make high security systems more safe / very hard to blockade, while anarchy would actually feel more dangerous as you would never know what you jumping into..People been complaining since the launch how little the security level matters the way it is now, this is also great way to make it more diverse.

Not to mention people who want to avoid blockades can and already are going solo mode like on those CG events..So I dont see where the problem is really.
 
Beacon forcing drop in to space once jumping to system, would be great improvement to smuggling! Forcing to silently evade police forces (of course that would require tweaking smuggling/stealth mechanics) and aside from "SC boost" I would like to see "fuel tanker ships" cruising around Nav's, that you could hail through Contact tab, and transfer small amount off cash for single fuel limpet, so You would be guarantied scooping possibility (for those who would jump in to system with empty tank, and normally wound be able to jump in to SC to scoop). Yet forcing to drop in to Compromised Nav would give huge adrenaline rush, making players to chose they route wisely!
 
This is a good suggestion. I generally like the idea of using nav-beacons for something as they seam quite pointless right now - they're currently just a way of condensing ships together without much of a purpose.

Perhaps a nav-beacon could be where players would have to go to obtain their 'clean' status - not passing through a checkpoint at the nav-beacon would result in a ship having an 'unknown' or 'wanted' status.
 
I like this idea, currently the difference between a highly policed system & an anarchy is barely noticeable, this could make real consequences for visiting low security systems without preporation
 
A much easier way to make nav beacons useful is that they give a navigation FSD jump bonus (not sure how much). For example, if you lock onto the star you jump as usual, if you lock onto the nav beacon to the system you want to jump to you get a navigation bonus to the amout of LY you can jump. So if you are in a hurry and don't want to make two jumps, you can make it in one jump, but you jump to the nav beacon into normal space instead of the star and run the risk of pirates.

Gives you options.
 
OK, imagine all the hoops you'd have to go through now to travel a 10 system route. I don't think adding more red tape to the gameplay is the way.

The suggestion I made earlier in the thread (which has been added to the OP) addresses this very issue. Getting dropped to the Nav Beacon would only happen if you travel away from the star - you stay in SC if you hang near to the star for scooping and for onward transit to hyperspace.
 
No thanks, ED has more then enough Timesinks already and making travelling around more time consuming does not sound that good to me as a player who travels around a lot. I for example like to travel around with the FDL and do missions and BH here and there. People complain about its jumprange but I don't actualy have a problem with it, you put a Fuelscoop in and can travel from one side of the Bubble to the other relative quick.
If you drop me into SC all the time with the low jumprange and tiny fueltank which means I have to scoop a lot it turns travelling around into the mother of all pain in the bumps. I really, really don't like that Idea. Even more so, another very good reason why I don't like this Idea is that:
Iblockades can become somewhat more effective.

And while the Idea of making system security more relevant is nice, the costs and added annoyance is way to high. I'm sure there are ways to make them more relevant without adding more timesinks.
 
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