Navigation Computer needed ?

[Jex =TE=]

I'd replace the entire fsd loading screen with a witchspace tunnel the player has to navigate, and at every star along the plotted route the player has to fly around the next star and follow the "tunnel" along it's new direction or fail and fall out into whatever star system that was. Actually require the player to interact with the game, and reduce the amount of star systems the game has to load. Could have ships at those stars able to interdict the witchspace echos as they fly past the star, would look like normal echos but streched into a very long line bending at the star, following the path the player in the tunnel would take.

This would easily be 100x more interesting than point ship to new star, press j, wait for system to load, repeat.

And I say this as someone who just completed a 85,000ly trip around the galaxy this week. Jumping between stars is not compelling or challenging gameplay. It's what's at the destination that's compelling or challenging.

So you mean make the act of jumping from star system to star system a GAME? Oh noes this surely cannot be? But why, why I ask you! Why would you want to make this into a fun and challenging GAME???

I love the idea of flying down a tunnel LOL

 

[Jex =TE=]

So you'd also rather just watch as the game plays itself?

Can we stop with this ridiculous argument that's only suitable for the playground. Please point to anyone, anywhere advocating the game plays itself. Nobody has even remotely said that it should so why you're the only one bringing it up is beyond us all. Persoanlly, I think you're trolling and as such, I've reported your post.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Familiarity breeds contempt. I believe it's all part of the Jump mechanic. I can be put off by multiple jumps to get to an activity but, that doesn't mean I consider 'easier, or faster' as enough incentive to change one of the game's base mechanics like you propose. If all the change you can justify is to press one key for you, what would be the worth? How much time would it save? All it would do is to let you watch more of your movie at one clip than you can now. I feel no sympathy.

There's an easy fix for people like you - simply don't buy one. Do you have an issue with that?

 

[Jex =TE=]

Please, not again. This post has been made about three dozen times over the last 18 months.

OK, lets add an autopilot. Also add auto-combat and auto-trade. You would end up with a beautiful space demo, but unfortunately, there would be no game-play left.

TL;DR: OP, ED is probably not the right game for you.

Actually it's probably not the right game for you. The dullness of space travel is a leaving point for ED, not a selling point. Therefore less sales and less development. You should also look up "Slippery Slope Argument".

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I can certainly see having an "Auto-pilot" system that can complete a jump, orient the ship for the next jump, including navigating around a star if the jump point is on the other side, and initiate the next jump, and repeat, until the final destination is reached. AND, most importantly, can be suspended if the pilot needs to take over - to fuel scoop, to deal with pirates, or otherwise take some manner of action that an auto-pilot cannot.
And the pilot would still need to take control of the ship to initiate docking procedures (request docking) and either land or allow the auto-docking systems to take over at that point.

 

[Jex =TE=]

The gist of it is that he's old and his memory is failing; he's trying to use the "back in my day" argument while being unable to remember that the 1984 version of elite had a docking computer and he's confusing himself as everyone by referring himself as "we". He's hoping to impress others by saying he's run the original Elite using an antique computer but it's easy to tell he's lying because he's saying the original Elite didn't have a docking computer. That or he's confusing Elite 2 or Elite First Encounters which had navigation computers with Elite or Elite Plus which only had a docking computer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-VJeVPeawk

To recap:
All Elite games have had a docking computer.
Half of all elite games have had a navigation computer.

Well I remember the AUTO PILOT in the original because it was the day I could say goodbye to manual docking! I think it was one of the first things I bought LOL and was a "thank god for that!" moment.

I love that you found the original FE2 manual with the part about flying into stars from boredom as I remember that too!

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As long as there is nothing to do when a a computer takes over, there is no point to it. If you prefer nothing over what ED offers, best look for a different game. Once spacelegs is around I wouldnt mind strolling around a corvette while the computer flies around. It could be easily be balanced by making the computer peform much slower than a human would.

It doesn't need to be balanced anymore than your AP for speed doesn't need to be balanced when you SC and keep it in the blue zone. All AP would do is keep you on course instead of you doing it, DC would take over when it gets to port. Then whilst it's doing all that, you can walk around your ship and the next best thing above that is showing your mates around your ship (because we'll be able to decorate them how we like to - like Warframe )

 

[thorn-]

The gist of it is that he's old and his memory is failing; he's trying to use the "back in my day" argument while being unable to remember that the 1984 version of elite had a docking computer

He didn't say that. You are quoting that he said this, but he did not.

He said "I can assure you that you are utterly wrong re:- 'There was a AP in the original game'"

It appears that you are the one that is confused about what AP means; there was certainly no AP in Elite 84.

 

[lysan]

He didn't say that. You are quoting that he said this, but he did not.

He said "I can assure you that you are utterly wrong re:- 'There was a AP in the original game'"

It appears that you are the one that is confused about what AP means; there was certainly no AP in Elite 84.

True, there were also hardly any graphics however what was or was not in Elite is not a point. The question should be, will there be one in ED, and the answer will be yes.
It's coming, it is in the plans, and I for one like that.

 

[Kellan Fell]

If you don't like the mechanics of the game don't play it, the instant gratification crowd should have learnt their lesson from the instant transfer result. 70% of players wanted a complex and delayed system, instant autopilot will also be kicked into the bin with the rest of the dumbed down suggestions. You knew the game you were getting into, if you didn't then thats your own fault, so adapt to the situation or stop playing, your choice, whinging is pointless.

Gee, thanks for that...
I did know what I was getting into as I paid £200 to get into it at Premium Beta, so I've been here almost from the start, so please don't paint me with the "instant gratification" brush. I've got over 10 weeks of ingame time logged and less that 350 million in the bank, so I think you can take it as a given that instant gratification is the furthest thing from what I play the game for, and to be honest I find that dismissal frankly offensive. Don't tell me to adapt to a situation that I've been playing for 4 years now on both PC and Mac.

If you go back to Elite 84, you could only plot a single jup at a time, but all "in system" flight was covered under the "stardreamer" type mechanic, where you would perform in-system jumps (holding down the J key) to get from entry point to station and the game would stop you jumping if you encountered an enemy. In the later follow-ups on the Amiga and the PC you had a limited Navigation computer which would plot routes for you and fly them, again reverting back to player control if there was an encounter. [As an aside there was an exploit with the Nav computer in FFE where you could lock it onto your target and use it o keep you facing the enemy in combat.]

So having now established my credentials as a long time fan of the series, and player of the game in it's current form, let me go on to say that I've been "adapting" to the wash/rinse/repeat nature of long distance hauling since before the official launch of the game. That doesn't mean I have to like it, and it certainly doesn't mean that it classes as "flying the ship". I don't press 'J' any more, now I just speak to Astra using voice attack, but saying "Engage Jump" every 20 seconds for half an hour still doen't class as flying the ship. Having a Navigation Computer available (no one is saying you have to use it) to basically handle the mindless nature of these jumps is not detracting from game play.

No-one is suggesting that these things handle interdictions, hell they wouldn't even scoop fuel. Most of the "don't dumb it down" crowd are probably playing an alternate game or watching a movie at the same time as the "wash/rinse/repeat", so don't even have a valid gameplay argument anyway! And, furthermore, I was one of the voters for the complex transfers, and nowehere do I suggest that the autopilot is instant. It would still fly the ship, the ship would still perform the jumps, all it would remove is the need to keep pressing 'J'. You could read your book, watch your movie or whatever the hell it is you do whilst on a long haule anyway just like you currently do. Personally I use a Rift, so I actually watch through the process of long distance travel without being able to watch something else on a second monitor...

I would suggest taking a breath before you leap down someone's throat the next time, and "go play something else" is not a cogent argument, especially not to an Alpha or Beta player.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I've been on these forums less than 2 weeks and it seems like "go play something else" appears in nearly every thread. lol.

This community...

You know you've lost an argument when all you can say is "go play soemthing else"

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The problem is people who haven't played the previous elites so all they know is the release of Elite Dangerous, which means they don't know that all but one of the previous Elite games had a navigation computer. You can also tell that these are players that don't even play Elite Dangerous much in the first place, so it's not like other players having a nav computer would affect them in any way.

You'll notice that they can't even acknowledge the existence of the manuals of previous games, even when these manuals are directly quoted in this or other threads, showing that, yes, contrary to what they believe, there were nav computers in the previous games. It goes against the narrative they've built up.

Actually it's worse than that because they're still told about the previous games and still refuse to listen.

 

[Jex =TE=]

...because they want to inject confusion they cannot engage in a rational debate because there is no counter argument that holds any strength so they hide behind over dramatic and confusion. Some people just h8 change or oppose it like a sport including any discussion that follows. God forbid anyone comes up with ways to enhance and improve the gameplay experience.

You can go through all 8 pages of this thread and I'd wager all those before it and not find one just one really good reason why a simple Nav computer offered to high ranked players is a bad thing. Any legitimate concerns I've seen can be easily addressed and you could even give advantage to those who choose to fly manually all the time i.e. make net journey times faster for them.

They hate change unless FDev make the changes you mean or they would never have bought Horizons and would be demanding 1.0 was the only game they played. When ED launched there were people saying the game was perfect - look how stupid that comment is now.

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Man...its like talking to a brick wall. If you get interdicted while the AP is in control and your in the kitchen making a coffee then you get destroyed......simple. That's the risk you take obviously. No one is saying the AP should be able to fight for you or do anything else other than keep the ship on the plotted course. How is this so difficult to understand?

Because unless they erect a straw man, they literally have no argument and afaic, this should be mdoerated as trolling comments because they're putting words in everyone's mouths. Page 10 and still everyone is saying the AP WILL NOT be able to fight or do ANYTHING BUT fly to the station and stars.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Poll here please

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/296027-POLL-Should-ED-have-an-Auto-Pilot

 

[Jex =TE=]

Well I have read the entire thread and skimmed through all of it again but maybe I just see it differently than you do.

No, no you haven't or you didn't pay attention. It's been clearly discussed.

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so you're saying you don't want to fly your space ship in this flying space ships game... Right.

Can you and everyone else using this argument define flying please but before you do, let me give you mine.

Having taken off from an airbase in S Korea in an F16, flying so low to the ground that you could reach out and touch me and then having to pull up, roll over, aim and drop bombs before heading back, only to hit a major storm where you couldn't see a thing and having to land with only 500m visibility, using instruments only to navigate back to home base then battle with the controls and thrust as we tried to land in gale force winds.

Please, PLEASE tell me how the FRAk you think pressing J is "Flying" OMG I can't wait to see the ZERO responses I'm about to read.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I can only say that I feel it devalues the scale of the Galaxy as it trivialises one of the main mechanics (travel) of the game if there is too much automation. I actually think that travel over such distances to Jacques and the core should be a lot more hazardous and take longer. This is coming from someone that has been to Jacques and the core and sprinted back 22,000lys to the bubble in roughly 8 hours.
It was too easy, it can be done too fast. Travel should be fleshed out more with more dangers, gameplay, maybe the FSD should be only capable of x amount of jumps before a cooldown is needed, if the cooldown is disregarded then serious damage could be incurred resulting in the need of a planetside excursion for raw materials to fix and an EVA for repair (space legs). The game is still in development with lots of potential for new gameplay and mechanics, automating travel before it can be expanded upon would I believe be a mistake.

I can get behind travel being much more complex but an AP doesn't stop any of that. Imagine you let go of your joystick but your ship kept on flying to station, like it kept it's course - how is that any different from you making adjustments every 30 seconds?

You do know you have auto throttle, right? And a Docking Computer? So this DC that can flying the ship into the station and land it cannot hold a straight course TO the station?

Going back to dangerous things in space hell yeah! Let's put in loads of stuff and give us sensors to detect them and stealth to avoid them, etc, etc, etc

 

[Mohrgan]

I've said it before. Every time you drop into a system there are a number of threats a Commander has to face. You may trivialize them to suit your agenda but, the risks are there, and must be faced. Fuel Scooping shouldn't ever be automated, a Commander should have to do this themselves.

In the end, all the Pro-AP guys want is a little more Netflix time. I don;t think the game should offer that. If all that is being asked for is to reduce the number of times you press [J], then how much benefit would we gain? Nothing by any measure. A few seconds more of that new Dr. Who episode. If your ship is moving, you should be flying it.

 

[Cageman]

So I'm thinking that by the year 3302 we should have the option to upgrade to an Advanced Navigation Computer that would allow us to plug in a route and it would fly/navigate the entire route from Launch to Docking.
Nav Computer that can do multiple jumps, as soon as you arrive it points ship away from star used to navigate and aims towards next destination. No hands, launch to land. Make the Grind better.

I'm all for it, as long as it has flaws.... The Docking Computer, for example, doesn't allways work (bugs out occasionaly).

So, for example, any random jump and it will ask you to re-allign the ship manually because it lost navigation.... it can't fuelscoop. It will automaticly commit to interdictions etc, etc.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I do argue in those threads, when I have time and when they come up. I have raised the points since they are related to my concerns over requested changes to the game I play.

Concerns that have not once appeared in this thread and where nobody is asking to teleport to a space station since it's a thread about an autopilot, not a hyperjump.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Some times "play something else" is the right response.
Elite, or any other game for that matter, will never be exactly what every single person wants, and to that end "play something else" is the only correct response.
Granted, I'm sure, there are those who feel like the correct response would be Frontier saying: "We're terribly sorry, let us change the entire game just to suit you." but we know that will never happen.

 

[Mohrgan]

Concerns that have not once appeared in this thread and where nobody is asking to teleport to a space station since it's a thread about an autopilot, not a hyperjump.

The idea is, that if you automate the travel in E|D you might as well allow for insta-jumps and just loose Hyper-jumps all together. Taking away the need to jump is tantamount to teleporting. That's how I read that comment.

As to the idea that earlier Elite's had a Nav. Computer is because they were single player games, and what other Commanders did meant nothing. This version is based on a model of the entire Milky Way Galaxy, the size and effort to get around was built in on purpose. The time and effort to get around the galaxy is intended to keep it all in scale. Making things easier, is not always better for game play.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Don't take it personal? You just called me self-centered and then finish with the nothing personal line again!

Seriously, I don't take that personally, I'm a member of the human race, we are all self-centered.

Speak for yourself and don't project your values onto the rest of us please. Just because your selfish doesn't mean the rest of the world is and I take offence at being labelled by you for being one of the most contemtuous types of human beings possible.