Nerf crowd about to ruin the game again

Why is it a problem? Kitting a Type 7 so it can tank some damage and stand a chance of surviving against at least the smaller craft should be an option.

If the SCB item is required in order to stand a chance against piracy, that is a problem.
If the SCB item extends the time during which you can take fire without problem to such a level that a similar ship without SCB would not be able to stay in combat on the same order of magnitude of seconds, that is a problem, even if combat in general taking longer isn't.

I kind of think you are attacking my responses rather than my arguments now though...
 
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Would it not be simpler to not be able to power your spare banks off. That way your limited by your power plant.

Combat craft will as now likely to use a single bank with compromise. Traders and multipurse that have power to spare are likely to run a second bank but at a comprimise.

If two banks make them fire alternately as with chaff. This would justify the obscene prices for top tier power plants.

Essentialy if you set for trading you will be using lower power draw weapons but have probably a couple of banks of scb to ensure escape from multiple interdictions or use python conda with high draw weapons on combat load which would limit amount of scb.

The problem now is having banks of unpowered scb available.

Being able to power modules off is helpful for heat management and fuel use. The scenarios where it makes a difference might be edge cases, but I'd rather not lose that ability.
 
If the SCB item is required in order to stand a chance against piracy, that is a problem.
If the SCB item extends the time during which you can take fire without problem to such a level that a similar ship without SCB would not be able to stay in combat on the same order of magnitude of seconds, that is a problem, even if combat in general taking longer isn't.

I kind of think you are attacking my responses rather than my arguments now though...

I've come to this thread a bit late so only seen the responses to my posts (and a quick browse of some of the above points.) Have only posted 2-3 times on this thread now and wasn't sure what you were getting at until this post.

Trader vs pirate is always going to be a tug of war depending on what ship is pirating and what ship is being pirated. The Type 7 how most people run it is pretty much vulnerable to everything. However with a good shield alone it stands a better chance of survival but with SCBs even more so. If a Python wants to pirate me then yeah, it's getting my cargo, it's the bigger and faster fish with major armaments. If a Cobra does though I'd fancy my chances of running and taking the damage whilst the 30 second cool down goes on, in fact I think that would be a thrilling chase. You pay your money you make your choice, you make your sacrifices and compromises in the various aspects of your ship loadout. The SCB isn't a prerequisite of survival in these situations but it certainly helps give the trader the run option without just submitting and jumping.

I'm not saying something doesn't need to be done for the Asp/Python/Clipper/Conda pilots that fit 4 or so modules of SCBs but limit the module number and you'd probably hit the best compromise. There will almost always be certain ships that work better for pvp and some people do lean towards the multi-scb model. Personally I prefer my FDL, can outrun all but the Clipper, only masslocked by the Conda and can often melt off shields before the SCB kicks in (thanks to the delay and a ram.) My SCBs don't make enough of a difference to have any play in PVP so I adjust accordingly to do maximum damage as quickly as possible.
 
I've come to this thread a bit late so only seen the responses to my posts (and a quick browse of some of the above points.) Have only posted 2-3 times on this thread now and wasn't sure what you were getting at until this post.

Trader vs pirate is always going to be a tug of war depending on what ship is pirating and what ship is being pirated. The Type 7 how most people run it is pretty much vulnerable to everything. However with a good shield alone it stands a better chance of survival but with SCBs even more so. If a Python wants to pirate me then yeah, it's getting my cargo, it's the bigger and faster fish with major armaments. If a Cobra does though I'd fancy my chances of running and taking the damage whilst the 30 second cool down goes on, in fact I think that would be a thrilling chase. You pay your money you make your choice, you make your sacrifices and compromises in the various aspects of your ship loadout. The SCB isn't a prerequisite of survival in these situations but it certainly helps give the trader the run option without just submitting and jumping.

I'm not saying something doesn't need to be done for the Asp/Python/Clipper/Conda pilots that fit 4 or so modules of SCBs but limit the module number and you'd probably hit the best compromise. There will almost always be certain ships that work better for pvp and some people do lean towards the multi-scb model. Personally I prefer my FDL, can outrun all but the Clipper, only masslocked by the Conda and can often melt off shields before the SCB kicks in (thanks to the delay and a ram.) My SCBs don't make enough of a difference to have any play in PVP so I adjust accordingly to do maximum damage as quickly as possible.

This is a bit offtopic from the main thread:

If any changes to fighting leaves a vacuum where SCB's where, I'd love to have the devs take a look on mines again; They really are a missed opportunity. They were first pitched as a way to fight people following you, and I think they would fit traders pretty well.
 
....The SCB isn't a prerequisite of survival in these situations but it certainly helps give the trader the run option without just submitting and jumping.....

But it also should not be an "I win" button either.
No one should be taking on group content in SSS as a solo players because the SCBs make them invincible.

Group content should require that 1 special thing in ED.... an actual group of players.

When 1 bit of equipment can completely invalidate part of the game, it is broken.
 
This is a bit offtopic from the main thread:

If any changes to fighting leaves a vacuum where SCB's where, I'd love to have the devs take a look on mines again; They really are a missed opportunity. They were first pitched as a way to fight people following you, and I think they would fit traders pretty well.

Agreed, I first equipped mines to my Type 6, couldn't even hit an NPC flying behind me, in the end binned it for a laser which I never used anyway. I do like that turrets now seem to work much better and have a wider field of fire but yeah, bring some love to the mines.
 
But it also should not be an "I win" button either.
No one should be taking on group content in SSS as a solo players because the SCBs make them invincible.

Group content should require that 1 special thing in ED.... an actual group of players.

When 1 bit of equipment can completely invalidate part of the game, it is broken.

You know SSS were never designed for wings, there is no and should never be wing specific content in ED, its just that if you find them hard you may need a wing or partial to help. :D
 
But it also should not be an "I win" button either.
No one should be taking on group content in SSS as a solo players because the SCBs make them invincible.

Group content should require that 1 special thing in ED.... an actual group of players.

When 1 bit of equipment can completely invalidate part of the game, it is broken.


True, but they have more uses than being just for combat specific vessels (ie: the traders.) So yeah, they're certainly worth taking a look at but for a number of ships they don't give you that "I win" button, more of a little helpful topup as power restrictions and module slot sizes prevent filling up on them. I don't think SSS should just be for groups though, a large well equiped ship should be able to handle some scenarios. Dropped into some impressive ones where 5 security vessels faced off against 8 pirates. Anacondas, Cobras, Eagles, laser fire everywhere. Being in the FDL I was more than happy to jump in and get involved. Sure ones like the gold trap I'll run from but I don't think all SSS should be gated off as a group only thing.
 
I've been harping on a lot about this, and it's pretty off-topic, but if you ask me, the entire signal-source concept is pretty flawed. If the game has to rely on scripted random encounters just to give people something to do, then that is pretty bad. If you also have to create multiple tiers of random encounters with different difficulty levels, just to cater to everybody, then that is even worse. Maybe this discussion is for another thread, though.
 
Nobody was discussing SCB for months up to this point.

Not true...


May 29 - Shield cells still need more work

June 2 - Shield Cells - Change to make them more tactical and less out-tank

June 4 - Fixing shield cell banks and shields

June 6 - Shield Cell Bank Limit

June 29 - Make Shield Cell Banks only deployable with Hardpoints retracted

July 7 - Shield Cell Banks: Alternative Implementation

July 14 - [IDEA] shield/shield cells mechanics change proposal



You know SSS were never designed for wings, there is no and should never be wing specific content in ED, its just that if you find them hard you may need a wing or partial to help. :D

Strong Signal Sources were introduced in the Wings (1.2) update, and were there to give players more challenging situations in which to let rip...

Michael Brookes said:
(from here)
Signal Source Strength

You will encounter weak and strong signal sources.
Weak signal sources *tend* to imply that few vessels are present.
Strong signal sources *tend* to imply that many vessels are present. Be aware of elevated risk when investigating strong signal sources. Flying as a wing may help: there’s normally safety in numbers.

You're right in that SSS aren't wing-exclusive content. Michael Brookes was clear on that from the get-go (here).
 
If I may come with a snarky side-comment: I don't think the devs have designed any part of the game to be SCB-exclusive, though.

What I'm trying to get at, if the only difference between you being vaporized in five seconds and escaping with half of your shields intact, is replacing a 8-tonne Cargo rack with a class 3A SCB, then maybe, just maybe, there is a prolem with how that SCB interacts with the game.
 
Being able to power modules off is helpful for heat management and fuel use. The scenarios where it makes a difference might be edge cases, but I'd rather not lose that ability.
Not suggesting change to power management. Just so its tied to the shield power. I.e if you are powering your shield by default you are powering the scb in case you need it. I would be keen to have no power management to scb. Just tie it to shields.
 
Not true...


May 29 - Shield cells still need more work

June 2 - Shield Cells - Change to make them more tactical and less out-tank

June 4 - Fixing shield cell banks and shields

June 6 - Shield Cell Bank Limit

June 29 - Make Shield Cell Banks only deployable with Hardpoints retracted

July 7 - Shield Cell Banks: Alternative Implementation

July 14 - [IDEA] shield/shield cells mechanics change proposal





Strong Signal Sources were introduced in the Wings (1.2) update, and were there to give players more challenging situations in which to let rip...



You're right in that SSS aren't wing-exclusive content. Michael Brookes was clear on that from the get-go (here).

Great post, thank you.
I sit corrected on the purpose of SSS :p
Suppose I've got to be wrong from time to time ;)
 
Honestly, if you start a balance discussion with "This item is fine because I need it to solo a group of 4+ enemy ships who are all larger/more combat oriented than me", you've already kind of lost. I don't think it's possible to design a module that can let you solo multiple top-tier combat ships without completely breaking PvP when that module is equipped by said top-tier combat ship.

When you're running solo, part of the challenge is that you just have one ship. There's only so much you can do with one ship. That's okay. Know your limits, and don't bite off more than you can chew. If you want to take on something bigger than your ship can handle on its own but you don't want to go into Open to do it, grab a friend and go into Private. Otherwise, keep in mind that the game won't do anything to keep you from trying to solo a Farragut, but trying to do so is probably a bad idea. If you know you're getting more attention than your ship can handle then go 3/3/0, hit your turbo, turn off flight assist, and start charging your FSD. Most NPCs don't know how to keep up with someone who's coasting at turbo speed (though this is much easier in faster ships).

I run in a Viper. I know I can't take two ships at once without some backup because it's a Viper. I know that I can't take a Python or Anaconda unless it's distracted or already in bad shape. I don't run SCBs, but I've only died in it once, when a large ships caught me off guard with a boost and I went splat on its windshield. Instant death by ramming aside, surviving in Solo is pretty easy if you just know when to hold 'em, and know when to NOPE.

Having an equipment slot that removes the need to NOPE out of bad situations is just being lazy.
 
Honestly, if you start a balance discussion with "This item is fine because I need it to solo a group of 4+ enemy ships who are all larger/more combat oriented than me", you've already kind of lost. I don't think it's possible to design a module that can let you solo multiple top-tier combat ships without completely breaking PvP when that module is equipped by said top-tier combat ship.

When you're running solo, part of the challenge is that you just have one ship. There's only so much you can do with one ship. That's okay. Know your limits, and don't bite off more than you can chew. If you want to take on something bigger than your ship can handle on its own but you don't want to go into Open to do it, grab a friend and go into Private. Otherwise, keep in mind that the game won't do anything to keep you from trying to solo a Farragut, but trying to do so is probably a bad idea. If you know you're getting more attention than your ship can handle then go 3/3/0, hit your turbo, turn off flight assist, and start charging your FSD. Most NPCs don't know how to keep up with someone who's coasting at turbo speed (though this is much easier in faster ships).

I run in a Viper. I know I can't take two ships at once without some backup because it's a Viper. I know that I can't take a Python or Anaconda unless it's distracted or already in bad shape. I don't run SCBs, but I've only died in it once, when a large ships caught me off guard with a boost and I went splat on its windshield. Instant death by ramming aside, surviving in Solo is pretty easy if you just know when to hold 'em, and know when to NOPE.

Having an equipment slot that removes the need to NOPE out of bad situations is just being lazy.


Well, to be honest there is no problem once you realize that PvP pew pew is in this game only to provide a role play option.

The real PvP is set to be PvE activities between groups.

That is why PvP provides no tangible benefits to your bottom line....nor does it help in Community Goals or Power Play. PvP pew pew is a fun diversion and that is about all.
 
I think a good idea will be to let all NPCs stack scbs and use them. Then we will see how many people still think they are a great idea when each pve kill takes 20 mins and it is impossible to win anymore than 1 on 1.
 
Dear FD,

I'm getting really tired of this.

Now they're talking about killing SCBs, and those are a critical part of PvE. The momentum is very strong, those against the nerf mostly seem to be keeping quiet, and you've shown time and time again that you're very... democratic; you seem to go with what you hear the most. I'm mostly satisfied with the way the game is now, but I'm tired of the mechanics being sliced away by bits and pieces in ways that badly damage the experience because people who are strictly here to duel other players make demands based on the way they want things to go while they fight each other. If you kill SCBs, I will NOT be satisfied at all.

I'm starting to honestly think that we're not going to be able to combine PvP and PvE successfully in the main game. Something needs to change, big time, to save us PvEers from the nerfs you keep imposing on us at the behest of the PvPers.

(source) please.

my view is SCB should never have been introduced in the first place, upgraded armor would have been a better option.
There is nothing worse than spending 5mins in combat with bigger ships (I fly the cobra) than to have them completely wipe out all the effort I just put in to take shields down and get them on the run.

I would play in open again (as i used to in PreBeta upto release) if SCB's were not in the game.
 
I think a good idea will be to let all NPCs stack scbs and use them. Then we will see how many people still think they are a great idea when each pve kill takes 20 mins and it is impossible to win anymore than 1 on 1.
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yep...this is also true!
 
Well, to be honest there is no problem once you realize that PvP pew pew is in this game only to provide a role play option.

The real PvP is set to be PvE activities between groups.

That is why PvP provides no tangible benefits to your bottom line....nor does it help in Community Goals or Power Play. PvP pew pew is a fun diversion and that is about all.

And what about being able to be completely invincible versus a wing of 4 Elite Anacondas in a Vulture and be able to beat the snot out of them ?

That is balanced ?

- - - Updated - - -

I think a good idea will be to let all NPCs stack scbs and use them. Then we will see how many people still think they are a great idea when each pve kill takes 20 mins and it is impossible to win anymore than 1 on 1.

If we still had SJA, I'd agree.
 
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