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"Unbacked" claim? Someone working for FDev made a statement. What's the point of demanding for them telling us anything if the immediate reaction to everything they say is "lies!" any time they do?
This. Under the current conditions, what sense would it make to publish their own stats? Wouldn't stop those who question FD's honesty, could be all lies at last.

One word beyond the fact that the steam client can be easily bypassed. I also question the representation value of steam in general. I for one try to actively avoid games exclusively published on steam and I know I'm not the only one. This makes steam stats pretty questionable worthless as tendency-meter as steam itself is some sort of 'player filter' and as such a tendency in itself.

That's basically an answer to:

steam stats are still a good measure for tendencies. far better that your stats anyway.
 
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FD: We have way more people playing ED than Steam stats show
Player: Why don't you show numbers
FD: *shows numbers*
Player: I don't believe these numbers
FD: *facepalm*
 
So since it comes down to trust anyway, what value do numbers add?
It has nothing to do with numbers. It is anything to do with player expressing disappointment with game and wanting to use Steam numbers to pad his claim, because alone it is his subjective evaluation and he thinks it will be dismissed.

This is gamers thinking they can strong arm company to do things because "player base is shrinking". As company itself wouldn't be aware and way more informed about issues and tendencies. "But why they don't do what I want to do?", forgetting that both things aren't always inclusive. You not liking game might have nothing to do with overall tendencies, or company strategy to improve game.

It is much easier not to read much into anything. FD has business to run. ED is very profitable game for them. They will want to keep it that way. There are people hired to steer that ship. Lot of posters assume they don't know how to do that despite the evidence.
 
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AnthorNet

Volunteer Moderator
To be fair even EDSM has more users playing than the steam stats. So they aren't really showing anything.

I never ever for instance had anything to do between steam and elite.
 
steam stats are still a good measure for tendencies. far better that your stats anyway.
LOL, steam stats are better than Frontiers own stats? Do you honestly believe they have no accurate numbers on how many people are playing their game?

This forum can't get more ridiculous.
 
LOL, steam stats are better than Frontiers own stats? Do you honestly believe they have no accurate numbers on how many people are playing their game?

This forum can't get more ridiculous.
steam stats are better than stats you don't have access to. you should engineer that reading comprehension module before you tag others as ridiculous ...
 
steam stats are better than stats you don't have access to. you should engineer that reading comprehension module before you tag others as ridiculous ...
What makes you so certain about steam being the more trustworthy company? Don't they have a business as well and as such are (at least in theory, I'm not suggesting it and beg you not to put it in my mouth) bribable? FD on the contrary has not published any numbers even though they easily could. Would they be not trustworthy, what would keep them from publishing just some false statistics in their favor? So for now I'll take their word for it which for me works as well without concrete numbers.
 
Talking about reading comprehension, what about your writing skills?
always trying to improve, of course. however, i do not ambition to appeal to absolutely everybody either. i also expect the minimal effort which would allow establishing meaningful communication beyond mere mundane or survival matters. so if that was your sincere interpretation of my statement ... sorry, you didn't qualify.

What makes you so certain about steam being the more trustworthy company? Don't they have a business as well and as such are (at least in theory, I'm not suggesting it and beg you not to put it in my mouth) bribable? FD on the contrary has not published any numbers even though they easily could. Would they be not trustworthy, what would keep them from publishing just some false statistics in their favor? So for now I'll take their word for it which for me works as well without concrete numbers.
lol, you're indeed a special case. what an imagination, and you're not even replying to the original statement, but the one where the meaning was clearly spelled out!

stop trolling, guys.
 
What makes you so certain about steam being the more trustworthy company? Don't they have a business as well and as such are (at least in theory, I'm not suggesting it and beg you not to put it in my mouth) bribable? FD on the contrary has not published any numbers even though they easily could. Would they be not trustworthy, what would keep them from publishing just some false statistics in their favor? So for now I'll take their word for it which for me works as well without concrete numbers.
ok, let's try, i see you do have a point after all.

i'm not certain that steam stats is more trustworthy than frontier. none of them is. if anything, frontier has an obvious stake (re elite). steam stats, not directly.

if both would publish data, we could compare. that's something! if they match ... there's were trust could actually start to build.

of course companies can make up data. they do it likely all the time. still no excuse for no data at all. the moment you publish data you put yourself under scrutiniy. not doing that and a representative coming along and saying 'hey, it's just fine' and dismissing the other source just doesn't cut it, if anything it's just cynical.

the reason i phrased it that way was a deliberate pun to brett to cut the bull and publish some figures. which he obviously won't do, but hey, this is just a forum and i'm just a random stranger.
 
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ok, let's try, i see you do have a point after all.

i'm not certain that steam stats is more trustworthy than frontier. none of them is. if anything, frontier has an obvious stake (re elite). steam stats, not directly.

if both would publish data, we could compare. that's something! if they match ... there's were trust could actually start to build.

of course companies can make up data. they do it likely all the time. still no excuse for no data at all. the moment you publish data you put yourself under scrutiniy. not doing that and a representative coming along and saying 'hey, it's just fine' and dismissing the other source just doesn't cut it, if anything it's just cynical.

the reason i phrased it that way was a deliberate pun to brett to cut the bull and publish some figures. which he obviously won't do, but hey, this is just a forum and i'm just a random stranger.
There's a lot of highly speculative 'ifs' and 'whens'. And yes, I do have a lot of imagination. I can easily imagine that you are walking on very thin ice here... LOL

stop trolling, guys.
Pro tip: Never talk to me in plural. I'm just one single guy who never talks as member of a camp. But feel free to make up whatever fits your boat. :D
 
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So for now I'll take their word for it which for me works as well without concrete numbers.
in penitence for having been so harsh with you (and having neglected my own reading comprehension in an impulse) i will further gift you with my standing on this (no, don't thank me, it's ok, i'm just such a nice guy! :)).

tl;dr i don't really care. my issue with this issue is how wrong the majority of arguments pro and con are.

i've never anounced doom, let alone based on steam stats. if anything i've consistently found the steam stats figures thrown around to be actually quite good looking! they show the normal ups and downs in any game and show elite actually performing reasonably well over time. it never was a blockbuster and if would publish a game i would be more than happy with those figures. i can't fathom how anybody could derive from them that the game is dying.

otoh the reaction to this is always plain hysterical. dismissing steam stats per-se is just dumb since steam stats themselves clearly caution about the limitations of their own algorithms and extraction methods. still, it's statistical data, take it for what it is! then the argument that steam is not representative of elite is just either ignorant (of the very basic definition of statistics) or directly malicious.

fwiw, i have my own indicators of how the game fares. it's limited data but it's all i have (i'd always be interested in looking at more). for one i follow this forum pretty regularly and have an intuitive notion that there's a core loyal audience which trickles slowly away, and that there is a steady and periodic influx of new members. which is, oh surprise ... the situation to be expected in any game that does ok! which is consistent with what i see on steam stats. all said, i really don't care!
 
in penitence for having been so harsh with you (and having neglected my own reading comprehension in an impulse) i will further gift you with my standing on this (no, don't thank me, it's ok, i'm just such a nice guy! :)).
I'm truly flabbergasted in light of so much generosity! :D

But...
so many words

...
tl;dr i don't really care. my issue with this issue is how wrong the majority of arguments pro and con are.
...
all said, i really don't care!
only to explain that you really don't care. Awesome.

Whatever you say, be assured I still respect you if not for one reason: You don't seem to be one of those fireflies talking with an imaginary majority behind their back. Or in other words you don't bore me with acquiescence. :)

This ice is called speculations.
 
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