New ship: Gutamaya Corsair

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I'm quite amazed that I'm seeing a lot of chat here and reddit about how the Corsair doesn't pitch or yaw as quickly as other ships. As though this is some deal breaker.

I've twice blacked out trying to turn it. To be fair, I can't recreate that. But it did happen. But let's, for one moment, consider that it needs to be more agile than it is.

It does this:

1. It's faster than the Krait MkII. Faster than basically any ship short of small, very specific ships like the Imperial Courier.
2. It's got much, much stronger shields than the Krait MkII. I actually took my shields from my Krait and put them onto my Corsair and gained... something like 800 base strength. In all ways, it's better in this regard. It's not even a contest here, which surprised me.
3. I think it has much, much stronger hull. I say this because my military, fully upgraded armour on my Krait has something like 1.1k hull strength and my Corsair... with lightweight... and no upgrades to its armour have... 950 or so... I'll confirm when I actually finish upgrading it, but my guess is I can absolutely destroy my Krait's armour strength once fully upgraded.
4. It has better internals. Due to this, it can do everything the Krait MkII can do except deploy a fighter ship. Which it makes up for with the additional medium hard point. And, while we're talking about hard points...
5. Has, by a very, very wide margin, some of the best weapon convergence of many ships I can think of... Insanely good. To the point I have absolutely dropped gimble for it, except for the third, underbelly medium. Whilst I think it's no Python MKII beater, it absolutely is super fun for combat and doesn't slouch at all in any regard of this feature. I've immediately adopted fixed weaponry because of this, it's just trivial to use against PVE.

Do we really need this to be more agile than a Corvette? I see that said a lot. And I get that to a certain degree, because one is a large ship. I'm just not feeling it, because my Corvette a) doesn't hit 595ms/s and b) doesn't change vector even nearly as quickly as this ship. It turns faster than I expect from a heavy ship. And I think that's ok. I also don't expect a multirole ship to... beat every other ship at every other thing it can do. Which the Corsair would do if they made it more agile than it already is. To be clear, it is not sluggish in any regard.

Like, I'm all for making this ship better. I paid money for it on two accounts. If you wanna buff it even more, go for it, guys! I'll take that if you lot insist. But does it really need it? It's not even "straight line fast" like most ships that can hit these speeds. It turns... fast. Maybe pitch and yaw aren't going to break your neck but it reacts to its new vector about as fast as a small ship does. I point it where I want to go and it... just agrees with me.

And you lot want more?

It just feels like most people are taking its only, very slight, downside, comparing it to some other entirely not multirole ships, then saying this is disappointing because it doesn't emulate that... If I had read all these comments before trying it myself, I'd have expected some Clipper/Cutter-esque performance. I'd have been entirely surprised.

I'll shut up now, though. If you can all somehow persuade FD to make this awesome ship stronger, I'll not stand in your way.

I'll give you all points but #5. Yes, it does have good convergence BUT unless the target is straight in front of you the bottom or top weapon won't be able to hit it (for me, usually the bottom C2). If you're a fixed weapon god, this is great. If you're using gimbals, not so much. I've even had issues with the weapons on one side or the other not firing if the enemy was too far of center. Not a deal breaker, but inferior to the fields of fire on both the Krait and the original Python.

As I just mentioned in my other post, what it lacks in pitch, it makes up for in vertical thrust (Cmdr Mechan pointed that out, and now I see it). That's what allowed me to outmaneuver a lot of my targets.

That said... my complaint is that they advertised this as agile Canyon running ship that could possibly replace the Imperial Courier or Imp Eagle. They said this in some of the promotional streams and the public streamers echoed that. I do not think the ship is that agile (though it does do a good job of zipping around asteroids)... but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, that tag line let a lot of people believe it was going to pitch really well... which is usually a major factor in ED dog fighting.

There is one thing that is 100% accurate... due to it's speed, if combat goes bad, you can get away fast. I did so several times.

 

[Ydiss]

I'll give you all points but #5. Yes, it does have good convergence BUT unless the target is straight in front of you the bottom or top weapon won't be able to hit it (for me, usually the bottom C2). If you're a fixed weapon god, this is great. If you're using gimbals, not so much. I've even had issues with the weapons on one side or the other not firing if the enemy was too far of center. Not a deal breaker, but inferior to the fields of fire on both the Krait and the original Python.

As I just mentioned in my other post, what it lacks in pitch, it makes up for in vertical thrust (Cmdr Mechan pointed that out, and now I see it). That's what allowed me to outmaneuver a lot of my targets.

That said... my complaint is that they advertised this as agile Canyon running ship that could possibly replace the Imperial Courier or Imp Eagle. They said this in some of the promotional streams and the public streamers echoed that. I do not think the ship is that agile (though it does do a good job of zipping around asteroids)... but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, that tag line let a lot of people believe it was going to pitch really well... which is usually a major factor in ED dog fighting.

There is one thing that is 100% accurate... due to it's speed, if combat goes bad, you can get away fast. I did so several times.

Bottom is the only outlier (top hits if all others hit, even versus very small targets).

And that's cool, because that final point can be used for any variant of alternative option (I use it for my corrosive MC, just gimble it so it lands when I'm on target with my fixed weapons). This does nothing to detract from the insanely tight grouping of 3 large and 2 medium weapons, otherwise. None of its peers come close to that. And this is just a "fun" thing. Who cares if any other ship has better convergence? I don't think any of the multi-roles do.

I'll take your word for it that they "advertised it as a replacement for IC or IE". Why would anyone believe that? I don't recall thinking this, so maybe I missed that marketing material. But really? You thought this medium, insanely capable multi-role ship (which I knew it would be, given every other ARX ship has basically topped its individual category quite well), would beat those two for... speed and agility?

Why? Where's the quote that even hinted at that? They're small ships. Both of which are capable of extreme speeds and agility due to the advanced drives only they can fit.

My comment was mostly aimed at the "It turns slower than a Corvette" arguments. You're now surprising me with this new revelation that this was supposed to beat out the two fastest, most agile ships in the game. Both of which are small ships. But I'll take it, mate.

Let's go. Let's make this ship faster and more agile than those two

Sorry, I'm being a bit facetious here. But it's just baffling to me. I think this is a simply brilliant ship. I'm just amazed anyone wants it to be better. If anything, I'm beyond astounded that it's not driven a bunch of "nerf this PTW ship" comments.

 

[Kamiyoda]

If anything, I'm beyond astounded that it's not driven a bunch of "nerf this PTW ship" comments.

I mean, it did when everyone was under the assumption it would be faster than what it is.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Bottom is the only outlier (top hits if all others hit, even versus very small targets).

And that's cool, because that final point can be used for any variant of alternative option (I use it for my corrosive MC, just gimble it so it lands when I'm on target with my fixed weapons). This does nothing to detract from the insanely tight grouping of 3 large and 2 medium weapons, otherwise. None of its peers come close to that. And this is just a "fun" thing. Who cares if any other ship has better convergence? I don't think any of the multi-roles do.

I'll take your word for it that they "advertised it as a replacement for IC or IE". Why would anyone believe that? I don't recall thinking this, so maybe I missed that marketing material. But really? You thought this medium, insanely capable multi-role ship (which I knew it would be, given every other ARX ship has basically topped its individual category quite well), would beat those two for... speed and agility?

Why? Where's the quote that even hinted at that? They're small ships. Both of which are capable of extreme speeds and agility due to the advanced drives only they can fit.

My comment was mostly aimed at the "It turns slower than a Corvette" arguments. You're now surprising me with this new revelation that this was supposed to beat out the two fastest, most agile ships in the game. Both of which are small ships. But I'll take it, mate.

Let's go. Let's make this ship faster and more agile than those two

Sorry, I'm being a bit facetious here. But it's just baffling to me. I think this is a simply brilliant ship. I'm just amazed anyone wants it to be better. If anything, I'm beyond astounded that it's not driven a bunch of "nerf this PTW ship" comments.

Bottom isn't the only outlier, it's just the most noticeable. Trust me, there were many times onlly 2 of my 3 beam lasers and 2 of my 3 multicannons were firing on a target when it was left or right of center (by a good margin). The bottom is the most noticeable. By contrast, all 3 of the Krait's C3 points will hit anything center line or above (left or right) and the bottom C2s will do the same center line or below. The Python Mk I weapons will have even better arcs (bottom C3 is so far forward it can angle up a lot). That said, it's not a huge issue and I wouldn't ask them to change it. But for gimbal users, it is something to keep in mind. And yes, the bottom C2 is begging for an alternate weapon (missile rank, torpedo rack, etc.)

To be clear, they didn't say it would out perform the Imp Eagle or Courier, but they did say it would be Canyon racing with them, implying a nimbleness not seen before in a medium ship. In fairness, given that huge vertical thrust capability (which isn't reflected in outfitting stats) and it's high speed, their claims may not be that misleading. As I stated, I was slaloming through the asteroid fields to get to my target with no issue and at high speed.

I must've missed the people saying it pitched worse than the Corvette. That simply isn't true... not in actually flight nor in the outfitting statistics. It is, however, only better than the Krait in pitch by half a degree. However, it's higher speed, and the aforementioned vertical thrust, give it more agility. For me, the weirdest thing was watching the outfitting stats fail to change AT ALL from non-engineered 7A thrusters through G5. Then I add drag drives, and the pitch increased by 1 degree. I'm sure this is due to the high optimal mass or whatever... I saw someone earlier talking about it. That's fair, though it would've been nice for them to warn us about that as this isn't a behavior we have EVER seen any ship before this one (because it has such oversized engines).

It does have a good shield multiplier which gives it much stronger shields (about 20%) for me than my Krait. And the internals are very nice. I do miss the better visibility in the Krait, a 3rd seat (though I sadly never get to do multicrew (and it probably would bug out if I did)), but it is a fine ship.

It's possible I could make it into a big ship killer like my Python Mk2, but I don't think I will. I'll save the P2 for the big assassination missions, possibly mixed with some ground missions, and leave the the Corsair for small/medium ship killing, multirole activities, and ground missions. And, as I stated earlier, I might even increase it's lethality against the big ships by replacing the MCs with actual cannons. Those can be fun to blast modules with. If my Chieftain could rapidly kill Anaconda's with it's 2 C3 beam lasers, 1 C2 Cannon, and 3 C1 cannons, I think the Corsair would do even better with the it's 3 C3 beams and 3 C2 cannons.

The only adjustment the ship may need is maybe increase the pitch rate by 2 to 4 degrees. However, after learning how to utilize that powerful vertical thrust (I do it on all my ships, but this one is a beast) in turns, it may not need it.

This ship does NOT need a nerf, though. It isn't OP. If they were to increase the pitch rate to match the Python Mk 2... ok, yeah, that's overdoing it.

 

[mtfatboy3006]

I'm quite amazed that I'm seeing a lot of chat here and reddit about how the Corsair doesn't pitch or yaw as quickly as other ships. As though this is some deal breaker.

I've twice blacked out trying to turn it. To be fair, I can't recreate that. But it did happen. But let's, for one moment, consider that it needs to be more agile than it is.

It does this:

1. It's faster than the Krait MkII. Faster than basically any ship short of small, very specific ships like the Imperial Courier.
2. It's got much, much stronger shields than the Krait MkII. I actually took my shields from my Krait and put them onto my Corsair and gained... something like 800 base strength. In all ways, it's better in this regard. It's not even a contest here, which surprised me.
3. I think it has much, much stronger hull. I say this because my military, fully upgraded armour on my Krait has something like 1.1k hull strength and my Corsair... with lightweight... and no upgrades to its armour have... 950 or so... I'll confirm when I actually finish upgrading it, but my guess is I can absolutely destroy my Krait's armour strength once fully upgraded.
4. It has better internals. Due to this, it can do everything the Krait MkII can do except deploy a fighter ship. Which it makes up for with the additional medium hard point. And, while we're talking about hard points...
5. Has, by a very, very wide margin, some of the best weapon convergence of many ships I can think of... Insanely good. To the point I have absolutely dropped gimble for it, except for the third, underbelly medium. Whilst I think it's no Python MKII beater, it absolutely is super fun for combat and doesn't slouch at all in any regard of this feature. I've immediately adopted fixed weaponry because of this, it's just trivial to use against PVE.

Do we really need this to be more agile than a Corvette? I see that said a lot. And I get that to a certain degree, because one is a large ship. I'm just not feeling it, because my Corvette a) doesn't hit 595ms/s and b) doesn't change vector even nearly as quickly as this ship. It turns faster than I expect from a heavy ship. And I think that's ok. I also don't expect a multirole ship to... beat every other ship at every other thing it can do. Which the Corsair would do if they made it more agile than it already is. To be clear, it is not sluggish in any regard.

Like, I'm all for making this ship better. I paid money for it on two accounts. If you wanna buff it even more, go for it, guys! I'll take that if you lot insist. But does it really need it? It's not even "straight line fast" like most ships that can hit these speeds. It turns... fast. Maybe pitch and yaw aren't going to break your neck but it reacts to its new vector about as fast as a small ship does. I point it where I want to go and it... just agrees with me.

And you lot want more?

It just feels like most people are taking its only, very slight, downside, comparing it to some other entirely not multirole ships, then saying this is disappointing because it doesn't emulate that... If I had read all these comments before trying it myself, I'd have expected some Clipper/Cutter-esque performance. I'd have been entirely surprised.

I'll shut up now, though. If you can all somehow persuade FD to make this awesome ship stronger, I'll not stand in your way.

The disappointment stems from the fact that it was billed as a successor to the Clipper, but it is both slower and less maneuverable, despite being smaller and having larger thrusters. It wasn't teased as a successor to the Krait Mk II. It has very little in common with the Clipper at all. It's a fine ship. Maybe a great ship. It just isn't the medium Gutamaya people had hoped for and had been led to expect.

 

[Starlanced]

The disappointment stems from the fact that it was billed as a successor to the Clipper, but it is both slower and less maneuverable, despite being smaller and having larger thrusters. It wasn't teased as a successor to the Krait Mk II. It has very little in common with the Clipper at all. It's a fine ship. Maybe a great ship. It just isn't the medium Gutamaya people had hoped for and had been led to expect.

Yup, all they had to do was give it the maneuverability of the clipper with a bit more speed and less drift, that's what I'd think most expected.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Bottom isn't the only outlier, it's just the most noticeable. Trust me, there were many times onlly 2 of my 3 beam lasers and 2 of my 3 multicannons were firing on a target when it was left or right of center (by a good margin).

I have to ask why you’re using gimbals on a ship with such good convergence?

I’ve not had a chance to do much combat yet, but I have taken it out and I’ve had no issues getting fixed frags or plasma on target. I have missile on the bottom HP, and even that’s not ideal.

It might be be because most of my recent combat has been in a Krait MkII with Gauss and I’ve learned to work with a slower ship. You often need to boost during the turn to get guns back on target, but it’s easier to actually stop on the target than the Krait by a long way.

Comparing it to the P2 is not fair, it’s not a dedicated combat ship, despite the looks, the Corsair is a “multi-role” pirate ship - hence the looks, it’s intimidating - it’s not supposed to be on par with the P2.

It’s a solid ship, although it doesn’t quite live up to the marketing. And it does seem strange that you’ve got to really load it up to make any difference between class 6 and 7 thrusters.

It’s not perfect, but then half the complaints about the Cobra MkV (and Mandalay) were about how it OP it is and it makes all other ships redundant…

 

[kofeyh]

It's an agile ship with amazing speed. It may not be "the most agile of all ships", but I don't think they said that, did they? And why does it need it?! Honestly, why? How many buffs does it need?

It's a medium ship that flies like a large ship, has unusual pitch behaviour, does not yaw and is not a speed freak. So it's basically the opposite of whatever Frontier had communicated and advertised. It's really a whole new thing and folks flying the thing are grappling with that. It is also very far away from Mandalay handling.

Is it "good", sure? It should be (all ships should be good) but only in that it has more hardpoints than clipper (the latter of which is faster and more agile albeit with a bit of drift) I think immediately responding that people want something broken is to simply misread the commentary. The feedback is, in the main, that the ship feels weird and has some odd characteristics and it's not clear what we have is either what the community or Frontier had expected.

Frontier billed this as a fast agile thing. Instead, it has unusually lumpy handling for a medium, requires use of roll and vertical thruster to counter whatever is going on with the variable pitch behaviour, the minimum mass for class 7 being so much higher than the hull mass, results in it handling better the heavier it gets (which is counterintuitive). I am not sure if this is literally a couple stats that need correcting or what.

Personally? It's growing on me, but the reality is, Frontier have essentially sprung a large ship version of the courier, concepted as a medium with some eccentricities added for, presumably, multi-role flavour. It's always the multi-role ships Frontier does weird stuff with, I swear.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

I mean, it did when everyone was under the assumption it would be faster than what it is.

Well, yes and no. 600 m/s may be less than what one might expect from size 7 thrusters on a medium ship. But there is the mass advantage. I didn't understand it at first either, thinking the shiop was broken when it could run 600 on size 6 thrusters as well. However, you can fly a really heavy build with this and still keep those 600m/s. No other ship can reach it's top speed on a heavy loadout.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I still haven't flown one, so this is a bit from the sidelines. But seeing their presentation, especially the stats they provided, and knowing Frontier's tendency to oversell things, what we seem to have now is pretty much what I expected - pretty much a replacement of the heavy multirole Krait, and a good one. Especially the old timers should know that the hype Frontier builds up rarely holds true to the full extent.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Well, yes and no. 600 m/s may be less than what one might expect from size 7 thrusters on a medium ship. But there is the mass advantage.

The mass thing seems like an advantage because it allows players to do things they usually wouldn't, like long ranging sensors without impacting handling. However the handling has been pre-nerfed with the expectation that the player will make use of the mass overhead. This removes the choice from the player of building light to get better handling, which imo isn't an advantage, just a removal of choice. So you might as well build it heavy since it doesn't make a difference.

 

[mtfatboy3006]

Well, yes and no. 600 m/s may be less than what one might expect from size 7 thrusters on a medium ship. But there is the mass advantage. I didn't understand it at first either, thinking the shiop was broken when it could run 600 on size 6 thrusters as well. However, you can fly a really heavy build with this and still keep those 600m/s. No other ship can reach it's top speed on a heavy loadout.

Except that unladen with size 6A thrusters, it should match or surpass the Clipper, and it doesn't.

 

[Chroniclerope]

I'm quite amazed that I'm seeing a lot of chat here and reddit about how the Corsair doesn't pitch or yaw as quickly as other ships. As though this is some deal breaker.

I've twice blacked out trying to turn it. To be fair, I can't recreate that. But it did happen. But let's, for one moment, consider that it needs to be more agile than it is.

It does this:

1. It's faster than the Krait MkII. Faster than basically any ship short of small, very specific ships like the Imperial Courier.
2. It's got much, much stronger shields than the Krait MkII. I actually took my shields from my Krait and put them onto my Corsair and gained... something like 800 base strength. In all ways, it's better in this regard. It's not even a contest here, which surprised me.
3. I think it has much, much stronger hull. I say this because my military, fully upgraded armour on my Krait has something like 1.1k hull strength and my Corsair... with lightweight... and no upgrades to its armour have... 950 or so... I'll confirm when I actually finish upgrading it, but my guess is I can absolutely destroy my Krait's armour strength once fully upgraded.
4. It has better internals. Due to this, it can do everything the Krait MkII can do except deploy a fighter ship. Which it makes up for with the additional medium hard point. And, while we're talking about hard points...
5. Has, by a very, very wide margin, some of the best weapon convergence of many ships I can think of... Insanely good. To the point I have absolutely dropped gimble for it, except for the third, underbelly medium. Whilst I think it's no Python MKII beater, it absolutely is super fun for combat and doesn't slouch at all in any regard of this feature. I've immediately adopted fixed weaponry because of this, it's just trivial to use against PVE.

Do we really need this to be more agile than a Corvette? I see that said a lot. And I get that to a certain degree, because one is a large ship. I'm just not feeling it, because my Corvette a) doesn't hit 595ms/s and b) doesn't change vector even nearly as quickly as this ship. It turns faster than I expect from a heavy ship. And I think that's ok. I also don't expect a multirole ship to... beat every other ship at every other thing it can do. Which the Corsair would do if they made it more agile than it already is. To be clear, it is not sluggish in any regard.

Like, I'm all for making this ship better. I paid money for it on two accounts. If you wanna buff it even more, go for it, guys! I'll take that if you lot insist. But does it really need it? It's not even "straight line fast" like most ships that can hit these speeds. It turns... fast. Maybe pitch and yaw aren't going to break your neck but it reacts to its new vector about as fast as a small ship does. I point it where I want to go and it... just agrees with me.

And you lot want more?

It just feels like most people are taking its only, very slight, downside, comparing it to some other entirely not multirole ships, then saying this is disappointing because it doesn't emulate that... If I had read all these comments before trying it myself, I'd have expected some Clipper/Cutter-esque performance. I'd have been entirely surprised.

I'll shut up now, though. If you can all somehow persuade FD to make this awesome ship stronger, I'll not stand in your way.

So, not going to let misinfo stand unadressed here.

1. Yes, at maximum potential the corsair is 43 m/s faster in boost, but lets not forget that the krait's maximum PRY is 52, 152, 17, while the corsairs PRY is 41, 135, 17 (the krait having a max pitch 20% higher). People who thought they could strip down their corsair and have a medium sized courier experince were shocked by the unchanging stats, as a consequence of it being able to maintain its maximum with a heavy build in combat. This is likely a result of them giving it a freakishly low hull mass so it has acceptable jump range while combat ready on a class 5 drive, but then they needed to cap its manueverability at its combat load so it doesn't go wild when unloaded. A horrible mess of design tbh.

2.&3. the shields are 12% stronger, the hull is 22%, while also being 18% taller for nose in firing, so easier to hit too in that instance. I don't know if this balances or justifies the increase, but it is what it is.

4. It trades a size 3 for a size 6&5 (It is afterall, a larger ship by size) and loses the ability to slf, which if they every fix the elite AI is equivalent DPS to a huge hardpoint that is constantly on target. Just because its currently bad doesnt change the actual stats and balance of slf if it works again.

5. Yes, its weapon convergence is to die for, because its sacrificed field of fire. Being a ring around the tubular hull of the ship means that if you are not on point with your aim, then gimballed and turrets arent able to fire, and that bottom one much more so. The ship is modeled by its artists and shiprites to be a high manueverability fixed weapons fighter, yet the programming and balance of how thruster classes work have nuetered it because they wanted to include class 7 as a selling point. If it was just class 6 it coulld have higher highs and an actual low.

I really do feel that you are selling top speed too much, fighting is conducted in the blue, so topspeed is mostly for breaking off engagements, which is useful but doesn't say too much about its combat abilities.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I'm fine with how it moves because it is a very large medium ship. Yes it has class 7 thrusters, but it absolutely needs them, given that it's significantly heavier than my Clipper. What I struggle with is on the one hand it can skittle a deadly Anaconda in 15 seconds (first PA salvo, shields down to 37%; second salvo, shields gone; third salvo, multiple balls of thermal conduit cooked plasma obliterate the powerplant, destroying it).

Then this huge deathbringer of a ship is mass locked by a Cobra mk3.

 

[Ydiss]

So, not going to let misinfo stand unadressed here.

1. Yes, at maximum potential the corsair is 43 m/s faster in boost, but lets not forget that the krait's maximum PRY is 52, 152, 17, while the corsairs PRY is 41, 135, 17 (the krait having a max pitch 20% higher). People who thought they could strip down their corsair and have a medium sized courier experince were shocked by the unchanging stats, as a consequence of it being able to maintain its maximum with a heavy build in combat. This is likely a result of them giving it a freakishly low hull mass so it has acceptable jump range while combat ready on a class 5 drive, but then they needed to cap its manueverability at its combat load so it doesn't go wild when unloaded. A horrible mess of design tbh.

2.&3. the shields are 12% stronger, the hull is 22%, while also being 18% taller for nose in firing, so easier to hit too in that instance. I don't know if this balances or justifies the increase, but it is what it is.

4. It trades a size 3 for a size 6&5 (It is afterall, a larger ship by size) and loses the ability to slf, which if they every fix the elite AI is equivalent DPS to a huge hardpoint that is constantly on target. Just because its currently bad doesnt change the actual stats and balance of slf if it works again.

5. Yes, its weapon convergence is to die for, because its sacrificed field of fire. Being a ring around the tubular hull of the ship means that if you are not on point with your aim, then gimballed and turrets arent able to fire, and that bottom one much more so. The ship is modeled by its artists and shiprites to be a high manueverability fixed weapons fighter, yet the programming and balance of how thruster classes work have nuetered it because they wanted to include class 7 as a selling point. If it was just class 6 it coulld have higher highs and an actual low.

I really do feel that you are selling top speed too much, fighting is conducted in the blue, so topspeed is mostly for breaking off engagements, which is useful but doesn't say too much about its combat abilities.

Not sure how this is all "misinfo".

At least 50% of what you said agreed with my estimations ( ) and much of the rest I didn't even say. Like point 1, I didn't even contend, I just said it's not "lacking agility". You just said it's got similar, if slightly worse, values than the Krait. I never said it was better than the Krait here. And apparently "selling top speed" is misinfo now? Why? Because you can't fight at top speed? Who said that?

 

[DjVortex]

Except that unladen with size 6A thrusters, it should match or surpass the Clipper, and it doesn't.

Someone mentioned in another thread that ships have always had a hard boost speed cap that can never be surpassed. It's just that we very rarely stumble across it or, when we do, we rarely pay much attention. The Anaconda was provided as an example of another ship where you can see this maximum cap in action. (I have not corroborated for myself that this is indeed the case.)

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Someone mentioned in another thread that ships have always had a hard boost speed cap that can never be surpassed. It's just that we very rarely stumble across it or, when we do, we rarely pay much attention. The Anaconda was provided as an example of another ship where you can see this maximum cap in action. (I have not corroborated for myself that this is indeed the case.)

The Krait Phantom is another and should also be significantly faster than 600 m/s if we're using the same logic.

At 600t a Krait Phantom hits its maximum boost of 591 m/s.

At 830t, A Clipper will do 603 m/s.

 

[Shurimal]

Someone mentioned in another thread that ships have always had a hard boost speed cap that can never be surpassed. It's just that we very rarely stumble across it or, when we do, we rarely pay much attention. The Anaconda was provided as an example of another ship where you can see this maximum cap in action. (I have not corroborated for myself that this is indeed the case.)

It is very much the truth. Some examples: Phantom, Mandalay, Dolphin have the absolute maximum boost speed they can achieve 591 m/s; Mamba, Orca and Clipper are 642 m/s; Python II is 583 m/s. Corsair is 600 m/s (2nd fastest medium after Mamba). Normally you can't get the ship's weight to or below the thruster minimum mass with a reasonable combat loadout so you won't see those numbers. Corsair and to an extent Phantom are exceptions (you can get a combat-fit Phantom to minimum mass if you stick with the factory default lightweight armor).

Now, the average speed under boost depends on each ship's boost profile and frequency. Some ships (like Phantom) only briefly touch the max speed before slowing down; others (like Mamba and PII) can keep that speed for a second. Generally it doesn't matter much since ships with strong boost profile tend to have wildly different max boost speeds or can't achieve the minimum mass—eg Phantom is always faster than combat-fit PII even if the PII has stronger boost profile.

 

[Shurimal]

The Krait Phantom is another and should also be significantly faster than 600 m/s if we're using the same logic.

At 600t a Krait Phantom hits its maximum boost of 591 m/s.

At 830t, A Clipper will do 603 m/s.

And it is easy to explain if you accept that the "thruster" module is not the actual thrusters, but the propellant and power feed system for the thrusters. Bigger, better thruster module allows the actual thrusters (the bits you see on the outside of your ship) to work better and throw more remass out of the back of the ship at higher velocity. But the final performance of the ship is dictated by the thruster acceleration chambers and exhaust nozzles, which remain the same no matter what "thruster" module you slap on the ship. Hence why eg Mamba and FDL may be basically identical in all aspects, but Mamba is significantly faster in straight line, yet has worse turn rate.

 

[Rebel Yell]

The belly C2 hardpoint has a disappointing placement IMHO, they could fix adding a small block below the weapon so that it doesn't hit the ship itself.

It happened to us that even when firing packhounds from side C2 they hit the ship...