New ship: Gutamaya Corsair

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Given my Corsair some more attention today. First I tried frags but I must be missing something ... I know people find them very effective but they seemed very mediocre to me. Or should I say, very mediocre in my hands?!

However, I did manage to quantify the two big issues I've been having:

• Power NPCs with SCBs dragging out the shield stripping stage, even with two C3 Beams
• Not enough DPS against hull from the C2/C3 MC combo to finish enemies off quickly before the shields recharge

That, combined with the less-stellar-than-expected pitch rate - were what was frustrating me ...

So, I've gone back to my first proposed loadout:

• 2x C2 Beams (Long Range + Thermal Vent)
• 1x C2 Railgun (Long Range & High Capacity + Feedback Cascade)
• 3x C3 Multi-Cannon (Overcharged + Auto-Loader / Corrosive)

This seems much better: the beams can essentially be fired indefinitely with only 3-pips in WEP, which gives a little more in both ENG and SYS to improve handling and shields. Bringing in the railgun to handle SCB usage does require lifting off the triggers to recharge after a couple of salvos but I've gone all-in on Charge Enhanced / Super Conduits so that doesn't take long.

Once the shields are down, those three C3 multis do an excellent job and the Corrosive effect on one means I can even bring the Beams back in for longer range hull damage if they try to run. Also, many thanks to @Rat Catcher for pointing out the spin-up time problem... I've adjusted my tactics to fire earlier than needed and am also sometimes using the beams first against hull until the multis are spinning and this has helped with more consistent DPS.

I also managed to stack some better booster / guardian module combos to get my shields close to 1400MJ (from ~1180MJ previously) which seems to have helped survivability.

Thus far? Well ... today there seems to be backup in most signal sources which has obviously made things easier but I have taken out multiple ships with much less stress than yesterday - including a solo victory against a Deadly Anaconda running SCBs, chaff and a fighter (which got a bit of a free reign on my shields) without dropping below 30% shields which was exactly the kind of situation I was having to run from last night.

So, in summary, I'm enjoying it a lot more. I'm not sure it's my favourite ship (which I has assumed it would be based on the pre-release specs) but if rumours about Gutamaya monitoring performance in the upcoming CG end up with them tweaking the thruster software for a little more agility, who knows ...

I'm currently on 3 C3 Beams (G5 Efficient w/Thermal Vent) and 3 C2 Multicannons (G5 High Capacity, 2 with autoloader, one with corrosive). This is only slightly more than what I used on my Krait MK II (only 2 C2 Multicannons G5 High Capacity, both with corrosive). While I'm able to outmaneuver against enemy Corvette's and Anaconda's better than the Krait, the SLF really makes a difference (adds damage, distracts enemy). I may end up replacing the multicannons with Cannons since that worked well on my Chieftain (big beams burn shields, cannons shred the PowerPlant). Though the Chieftain can pitch even better than the my Python MK II, so I don't know...

Does anyone else feel (other than aesthetically) that the Python MK II is more like the FDL/Mamba MK II and the Corsair is the true Python Mk II?

Anyway, good luck with your build. I'm so overwhelmingly stressed right now I could probably stumble on the OP/Meta/mother of all builds and still screw up and think it's the ship. :/

As a side note, I'm glad I saw Mechan's video about the stutterbug. After all the issues I've had with my new computer the past few months (one bad memory dimm, then bad motherboard, then boot SSD was friend (by the bad motherboard), and issues with the SteelSeries Arctis 7 headset not mixing audio properly (apparently you MUST use their new Sonar or it will be bad), it was nice to know this stutter issue wasn't a portent of yet another thing going wrong. Silver linings and all that...

 

[doctorrdread]

Does anyone else feel (other than aesthetically) that the Python MK II is more like the FDL/Mamba MK II and the Corsair is the true Python Mk II?

I do, and I've wrote it here weeks ago. This is the true take on Python, to enhance all the good things it has.

Existing P2 is a completely different beast.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

This ship sounds like the perfect BGS / PP murder ship, where you need alpha damage and speed but its you dictating the fight.

That is indeed what it was built for. Can you say "Vanguards"?

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Turrets are cheating

So is living.

 

[Sublime]

clean drives are/were useful in ax. low emission thermal plant with clean thermal drives will let you boost somewhat comfortably in silent running. was especially good around the titan.
as corsair seems to be a decent candidate for ax some people could find them useful even now, though i doubt it. the loss of speed on a heavy hull tank isnt really worth it.

Speed is much more useful in AX. If you want to lower heat just look at the power plant, it’s much more effective.

 

[wrmiller]

"In fact, unless I'm going insane, the Corvette seems to be more agile than the Corsair ... ?!"

Yea, I came to the same conclusion last night.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

[...] The formula is bit wrong, the dmg is 4.6 wich when charged by factor of 17 is 78,2 dmg. Note thats is absolute dmg part, as it apperantly there is another kind dmg, AX type of dmg, wich is only apply to thargoids, and its exacly same numbers.[...]

Hey, sorry to bring this up again.
I definitely do trust your experience, but would like to understand.

So, the mod shard deals either 50% thermal dmg to human ships, or 50% to Thargoid ships.
The mod plasma charger deals 50% absolute to human, or 50% to Thargoids.

So, comparing a 6x shard vs 6x plasma build, that is:
Mod plasma chargers: 8.3 (base dmg) x 17 (multiplicator when fully charged) x 6 (number of hardpoints used) x 0.5 = 423 dmg (absolute).
2 seconds to fully charge and shoot.
vs
Mod shard: 6.77 (dmg per pellet) x 12 (number of pellets per shot) x 5 (shots per salvo) x 6 (number of hardpoints used) x 0.5 = 1218.5 dmg (thermal).
~3.5 seconds to fire the full salvo of 5 shots at 243.7 dmg per shot.

Against a human ship with 50% resistance to thermal (shield or/and hull), the shards would deal 609.25 dmg, 121.85 per shot.

Both have a shot speed of around 6000 m/s.

Falloff of plasma starts at 1000m. No spread.
Falloff of shard starts at 1500m. Some spread, but fine against big ship from this distance.
Both have armor penetration around 100, so no damage reduction against any human ships (hardest like Cutter are at 75).

Why wouldn't the shard be valid for PvP?
All I can think of is the difficulty to land the 5 shots of a salvo..?

 

[Sublime]

"In fact, unless I'm going insane, the Corvette seems to be more agile than the Corsair ... ?!"

Yea, I came to the same conclusion last night.

Well the pitch is really closer to the corvette than it is to, say, a Krait2. It’s really disappointing.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Well the pitch is really closer to the corvette than it is to, say, a Krait2. It’s really disappointing.

For fun, and potential malicious intent, I built a silent running torpedo/hound Gunship.
Incredibly efficient against threat 6 assassination targets from wing missions which can be completed in 2-3 minutes.

I'm about to do a similar build on the Corsair, which will end up hotter, but oh so much faster than the Gunship.
As for comparing its pitch, well...Gunship ;-)

 

[Ydiss]

I'm quite amazed that I'm seeing a lot of chat here and reddit about how the Corsair doesn't pitch or yaw as quickly as other ships. As though this is some deal breaker.

I've twice blacked out trying to turn it. To be fair, I can't recreate that. But it did happen. But let's, for one moment, consider that it needs to be more agile than it is.

It does this:

1. It's faster than the Krait MkII. Faster than basically any ship short of small, very specific ships like the Imperial Courier.
2. It's got much, much stronger shields than the Krait MkII. I actually took my shields from my Krait and put them onto my Corsair and gained... something like 800 base strength. In all ways, it's better in this regard. It's not even a contest here, which surprised me.
3. I think it has much, much stronger hull. I say this because my military, fully upgraded armour on my Krait has something like 1.1k hull strength and my Corsair... with lightweight... and no upgrades to its armour have... 950 or so... I'll confirm when I actually finish upgrading it, but my guess is I can absolutely destroy my Krait's armour strength once fully upgraded.
4. It has better internals. Due to this, it can do everything the Krait MkII can do except deploy a fighter ship. Which it makes up for with the additional medium hard point. And, while we're talking about hard points...
5. Has, by a very, very wide margin, some of the best weapon convergence of many ships I can think of... Insanely good. To the point I have absolutely dropped gimble for it, except for the third, underbelly medium. Whilst I think it's no Python MKII beater, it absolutely is super fun for combat and doesn't slouch at all in any regard of this feature. I've immediately adopted fixed weaponry because of this, it's just trivial to use against PVE.

Do we really need this to be more agile than a Corvette? I see that said a lot. And I get that to a certain degree, because one is a large ship. I'm just not feeling it, because my Corvette a) doesn't hit 595ms/s and b) doesn't change vector even nearly as quickly as this ship. It turns faster than I expect from a heavy ship. And I think that's ok. I also don't expect a multirole ship to... beat every other ship at every other thing it can do. Which the Corsair would do if they made it more agile than it already is. To be clear, it is not sluggish in any regard.

Like, I'm all for making this ship better. I paid money for it on two accounts. If you wanna buff it even more, go for it, guys! I'll take that if you lot insist. But does it really need it? It's not even "straight line fast" like most ships that can hit these speeds. It turns... fast. Maybe pitch and yaw aren't going to break your neck but it reacts to its new vector about as fast as a small ship does. I point it where I want to go and it... just agrees with me.

And you lot want more?

It just feels like most people are taking its only, very slight, downside, comparing it to some other entirely not multirole ships, then saying this is disappointing because it doesn't emulate that... If I had read all these comments before trying it myself, I'd have expected some Clipper/Cutter-esque performance. I'd have been entirely surprised.

I'll shut up now, though. If you can all somehow persuade FD to make this awesome ship stronger, I'll not stand in your way.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I'm quite amazed that I'm seeing a lot of chat here and reddit about how the Corsair doesn't pitch or yaw as quickly as other ships. As though this is some deal breaker.

I've twice blacked out trying to turn it. To be fair, I can't recreate that. But it did happen. But let's, for one moment, consider that it needs to be more agile than it is.

It does this:

1. It's faster than the Krait MkII. Faster than basically any ship short of small, very specific ships like the Imperial Courier.
2. It's got much, much stronger shields than the Krait MkII. I actually took me shields from my Krait and put them onto my Corsair and gained... something like 800 base strength. In all ways, it's better in this regard.
3. I think it has much, much stronger hull. I say this because my military, fully upgraded armour on my Krait has something like 1.1k hull strength and my Corsair... with lightweight... and no upgrades to its armour have... 950 or so... I'll confirm when I actually finish upgrading it, but my guess is I can absolutely destroy my Krait's armour strength once fully upgraded.
4. It has better internals. Due to this, it can do everything the Krait MkII can do except deploy a ship. Which it makes up for with the additional medium hard point. And, while we're talking about hard points...
5. Has, by a very, very wide margin, some of the best weapon convergence of many ships I can think of... Insanely good. To the point I have absolutely dropped gimble for it, except for the third, underbelly medium. Whilst I think it's no Python MKII beater, it absolutely is super fun. I've immediately adopted fixed weaponry because of this, it's just trivial to use against PVE.

Do we really need this to be more agile than a Corvette? I see that a lot. And I get that to a certain degree. I'm just not feeling it, because my Corvette a) doesn't hit 595ms/s and b) doesn't change vector even nearly as quickly as this ship. I also don't expect a multirole ship to .... beat every other ship at every other thing it can do. Which the Corsair would do if they made it more agile than it already is. To be clear, it is not sluggish in any regard.

Like, I'm all for making this ship better. I paid money for it on two accounts. If you wanna buff it even more, go for it, guys! I'll take that if you lot insist. But does it really need it? It's not even "straight line fast" like most ships that can hit these speeds. It turns... fast. Maybe pitch and yaw aren't going to break your neck but it reacts to its new vector about as fast as a small ship does. I point it where I want to go and it... just agrees with me.

And you lot want more?

It just feels like most people are taking it's only, very slight, downside, comparing it to some other entirely not multirole ship, then saying this is disappointing because it doesn't emulate that...

The issue is how FDev communicated about the Corsair before its release.
They advertised a new multirole ship with class 7 thrusters.
They did not lie.
But players expected , especially after the release of the Mandalay and Cobra 5, yet another agile ship with great speed.

If they had said up front that it would be a luxurious fast flying heavy brick with a full size closet of internals, people would not be complaining.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I'm currently on 3 C3 Beams (G5 Efficient w/Thermal Vent) and 3 C2 Multicannons (G5 High Capacity, 2 with autoloader, one with corrosive). This is only slightly more than what I used on my Krait MK II (only 2 C2 Multicannons G5 High Capacity, both with corrosive). While I'm able to outmaneuver against enemy Corvette's and Anaconda's better than the Krait, the SLF really makes a difference (adds damage, distracts enemy). I may end up replacing the multicannons with Cannons since that worked well on my Chieftain (big beams burn shields, cannons shred the PowerPlant). Though the Chieftain can pitch even better than the my Python MK II, so I don't know...

Ok, I've done a lot more flying with this build at the CG. This ship is growing on me. It has... unique... flight characteristics. While the pitch may not be great, the vertical thrust ability is so strong that using that while turning I was able to frequently get behind and stay behind enemies and blow them up. I'm not the best pilot and usually my fights end up being jousting matches. While that still happened with this ship, I was able to outmaneuver a lot of ships I normally can't (FAS, Python, FDL, and Cobra MK III to name a few).

The weakness of this build is in dealing with big ships. Honestly, it seems like my beams are cutting up the small ships better than the MCs, so I may replace the multicannons with cannons. Then I can really blast the big ships.

To be clear, someone in a fully engineered Python Mk II would fly circles around me in this ship. My Python MK II (listed in my signature) is outfitted with 6 frags and is a large ship killer. Still, when I dog fight in it, I often end up sloppily ramming the enemy ships. With the Corsair I still had a fair bit of collisions early on (the big wings are just asking for it unless you roll), but nowhere near as much as I did in the Python MK II.

Fyi, my control scheme is an Xbox-like controller (Gullikit King Kong Pro II (or something like that)), so those of you with HOTAS setups or who fly with keyboard/mouse might really do some magic in both these ships. As I've mentioned in the past, I have to stick with this control setup because of my fibromyalgia. Previous attempts to use a HOTAS were exhausting; and while I might be able to handle it now, I don't have the energy to do the actual physical mounting/modifications to my workstation to support it's ergonomic setup. Anyway, my point is if I can pull these tricks with this ship, others may be able to make it shine.

I'd still love a few more degrees of pitch, but I guess I can live with it. The only issue I have with this ship (not a bug, a feature) is that like many non-large, non-slf carrying ships, wings of enemies can be dangerous. At first, they were a major problem, but I seem to be getting better at dealing with them as I get used to the ship. That said... who is the evil genius that seeded the RNG to make all the big, juicy enemy wings (e.g a T-10 and two Anacondas, or (as I saw tonight) 2 Anacondas and a Vulture) spawn when you're in a ship that can't handle it?! God, I would love to run across those in my Python Mk II! Zip in, one down, zip out. Rinse, repeat, big wing down in minutes. Only time I get that action is when taking assassination missions and all three Corvette targets decide to drop down on me at once. Love that.

 

[Ydiss]

The issue is how FDev communicated about the Corsair before its release.
They advertised a new multirole ship with class 7 thrusters.
They did not lie.
But players expected , especially after the release of the Mandalay and Cobra 5, yet another agile ship with great speed.

If they had said up front that it would be a luxurious fast flying heavy brick with a full size closet of internals, people would not be complaining.

It's an agile ship with amazing speed. It may not be "the most agile of all ships", but I don't think they said that, did they? And why does it need it?! Honestly, why? How many buffs does it need?

As I said... have at it. You go, guys. I won't stop you in the quest to make my new, favourite, paid for ship more OP than it already is. But I'm amazed anyone thinks this isn't agile. Like, when you fly it, are you thinking "this is sluggish"? I'm consistently able to keep its fixed points on a PVE target most of the time. It's not "small-ship-agile", it's not even Mandalay agile, but... are you even comparing this to the Mandalay or T8 for agility and combat?

Why are we comparing it to the Corvette???

What amazed me so quickly about this ship is just how awesome it is for combat. If it was sluggish at all, I'd have written it off immediately for that. The fact it's reasonably agile and has simply amazing convergence makes it so much fun for combat. Maybe not "best in slot" for combat. I am not saying this is the PVP killer at all. But, I'm seeing comparisons purely on its yaw and pitch versus... The mandalay, T8 and... Corvette... How is any of that important for this ship?

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I'm quite amazed that I'm seeing a lot of chat here and reddit about how the Corsair doesn't pitch or yaw as quickly as other ships. As though this is some deal breaker.

I've twice blacked out trying to turn it. To be fair, I can't recreate that. But it did happen. But let's, for one moment, consider that it needs to be more agile than it is.

It does this:

1. It's faster than the Krait MkII. Faster than basically any ship short of small, very specific ships like the Imperial Courier.
2. It's got much, much stronger shields than the Krait MkII. I actually took my shields from my Krait and put them onto my Corsair and gained... something like 800 base strength. In all ways, it's better in this regard. It's not even a contest here, which surprised me.
3. I think it has much, much stronger hull. I say this because my military, fully upgraded armour on my Krait has something like 1.1k hull strength and my Corsair... with lightweight... and no upgrades to its armour have... 950 or so... I'll confirm when I actually finish upgrading it, but my guess is I can absolutely destroy my Krait's armour strength once fully upgraded.
4. It has better internals. Due to this, it can do everything the Krait MkII can do except deploy a fighter ship. Which it makes up for with the additional medium hard point. And, while we're talking about hard points...
5. Has, by a very, very wide margin, some of the best weapon convergence of many ships I can think of... Insanely good. To the point I have absolutely dropped gimble for it, except for the third, underbelly medium. Whilst I think it's no Python MKII beater, it absolutely is super fun for combat and doesn't slouch at all in any regard of this feature. I've immediately adopted fixed weaponry because of this, it's just trivial to use against PVE.

Do we really need this to be more agile than a Corvette? I see that said a lot. And I get that to a certain degree, because one is a large ship. I'm just not feeling it, because my Corvette a) doesn't hit 595ms/s and b) doesn't change vector even nearly as quickly as this ship. It turns faster than I expect from a heavy ship. And I think that's ok. I also don't expect a multirole ship to... beat every other ship at every other thing it can do. Which the Corsair would do if they made it more agile than it already is. To be clear, it is not sluggish in any regard.

Like, I'm all for making this ship better. I paid money for it on two accounts. If you wanna buff it even more, go for it, guys! I'll take that if you lot insist. But does it really need it? It's not even "straight line fast" like most ships that can hit these speeds. It turns... fast. Maybe pitch and yaw aren't going to break your neck but it reacts to its new vector about as fast as a small ship does. I point it where I want to go and it... just agrees with me.

And you lot want more?

It just feels like most people are taking its only, very slight, downside, comparing it to some other entirely not multirole ships, then saying this is disappointing because it doesn't emulate that... If I had read all these comments before trying it myself, I'd have expected some Clipper/Cutter-esque performance. I'd have been entirely surprised.

I'll shut up now, though. If you can all somehow persuade FD to make this awesome ship stronger, I'll not stand in your way.

I'll give you all points but #5. Yes, it does have good convergence BUT unless the target is straight in front of you the bottom or top weapon won't be able to hit it (for me, usually the bottom C2). If you're a fixed weapon god, this is great. If you're using gimbals, not so much. I've even had issues with the weapons on one side or the other not firing if the enemy was too far of center. Not a deal breaker, but inferior to the fields of fire on both the Krait and the original Python.

As I just mentioned in my other post, what it lacks in pitch, it makes up for in vertical thrust (Cmdr Mechan pointed that out, and now I see it). That's what allowed me to outmaneuver a lot of my targets.

That said... my complaint is that they advertised this as agile Canyon running ship that could possibly replace the Imperial Courier or Imp Eagle. They said this in some of the promotional streams and the public streamers echoed that. I do not think the ship is that agile (though it does do a good job of zipping around asteroids)... but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, that tag line let a lot of people believe it was going to pitch really well... which is usually a major factor in ED dog fighting.

There is one thing that is 100% accurate... due to it's speed, if combat goes bad, you can get away fast. I did so several times.

 

[Ydiss]

I'll give you all points but #5. Yes, it does have good convergence BUT unless the target is straight in front of you the bottom or top weapon won't be able to hit it (for me, usually the bottom C2). If you're a fixed weapon god, this is great. If you're using gimbals, not so much. I've even had issues with the weapons on one side or the other not firing if the enemy was too far of center. Not a deal breaker, but inferior to the fields of fire on both the Krait and the original Python.

As I just mentioned in my other post, what it lacks in pitch, it makes up for in vertical thrust (Cmdr Mechan pointed that out, and now I see it). That's what allowed me to outmaneuver a lot of my targets.

That said... my complaint is that they advertised this as agile Canyon running ship that could possibly replace the Imperial Courier or Imp Eagle. They said this in some of the promotional streams and the public streamers echoed that. I do not think the ship is that agile (though it does do a good job of zipping around asteroids)... but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, that tag line let a lot of people believe it was going to pitch really well... which is usually a major factor in ED dog fighting.

There is one thing that is 100% accurate... due to it's speed, if combat goes bad, you can get away fast. I did so several times.

Bottom is the only outlier (top hits if all others hit, even versus very small targets).

And that's cool, because that final point can be used for any variant of alternative option (I use it for my corrosive MC, just gimble it so it lands when I'm on target with my fixed weapons). This does nothing to detract from the insanely tight grouping of 3 large and 2 medium weapons, otherwise. None of its peers come close to that. And this is just a "fun" thing. Who cares if any other ship has better convergence? I don't think any of the multi-roles do.

I'll take your word for it that they "advertised it as a replacement for IC or IE". Why would anyone believe that? I don't recall thinking this, so maybe I missed that marketing material. But really? You thought this medium, insanely capable multi-role ship (which I knew it would be, given every other ARX ship has basically topped its individual category quite well), would beat those two for... speed and agility?

Why? Where's the quote that even hinted at that? They're small ships. Both of which are capable of extreme speeds and agility due to the advanced drives only they can fit.

My comment was mostly aimed at the "It turns slower than a Corvette" arguments. You're now surprising me with this new revelation that this was supposed to beat out the two fastest, most agile ships in the game. Both of which are small ships. But I'll take it, mate.

Let's go. Let's make this ship faster and more agile than those two

Sorry, I'm being a bit facetious here. But it's just baffling to me. I think this is a simply brilliant ship. I'm just amazed anyone wants it to be better. If anything, I'm beyond astounded that it's not driven a bunch of "nerf this PTW ship" comments.

 

[Kamiyoda]

If anything, I'm beyond astounded that it's not driven a bunch of "nerf this PTW ship" comments.

I mean, it did when everyone was under the assumption it would be faster than what it is.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Bottom is the only outlier (top hits if all others hit, even versus very small targets).

And that's cool, because that final point can be used for any variant of alternative option (I use it for my corrosive MC, just gimble it so it lands when I'm on target with my fixed weapons). This does nothing to detract from the insanely tight grouping of 3 large and 2 medium weapons, otherwise. None of its peers come close to that. And this is just a "fun" thing. Who cares if any other ship has better convergence? I don't think any of the multi-roles do.

I'll take your word for it that they "advertised it as a replacement for IC or IE". Why would anyone believe that? I don't recall thinking this, so maybe I missed that marketing material. But really? You thought this medium, insanely capable multi-role ship (which I knew it would be, given every other ARX ship has basically topped its individual category quite well), would beat those two for... speed and agility?

Why? Where's the quote that even hinted at that? They're small ships. Both of which are capable of extreme speeds and agility due to the advanced drives only they can fit.

My comment was mostly aimed at the "It turns slower than a Corvette" arguments. You're now surprising me with this new revelation that this was supposed to beat out the two fastest, most agile ships in the game. Both of which are small ships. But I'll take it, mate.

Let's go. Let's make this ship faster and more agile than those two

Sorry, I'm being a bit facetious here. But it's just baffling to me. I think this is a simply brilliant ship. I'm just amazed anyone wants it to be better. If anything, I'm beyond astounded that it's not driven a bunch of "nerf this PTW ship" comments.

Bottom isn't the only outlier, it's just the most noticeable. Trust me, there were many times onlly 2 of my 3 beam lasers and 2 of my 3 multicannons were firing on a target when it was left or right of center (by a good margin). The bottom is the most noticeable. By contrast, all 3 of the Krait's C3 points will hit anything center line or above (left or right) and the bottom C2s will do the same center line or below. The Python Mk I weapons will have even better arcs (bottom C3 is so far forward it can angle up a lot). That said, it's not a huge issue and I wouldn't ask them to change it. But for gimbal users, it is something to keep in mind. And yes, the bottom C2 is begging for an alternate weapon (missile rank, torpedo rack, etc.)

To be clear, they didn't say it would out perform the Imp Eagle or Courier, but they did say it would be Canyon racing with them, implying a nimbleness not seen before in a medium ship. In fairness, given that huge vertical thrust capability (which isn't reflected in outfitting stats) and it's high speed, their claims may not be that misleading. As I stated, I was slaloming through the asteroid fields to get to my target with no issue and at high speed.

I must've missed the people saying it pitched worse than the Corvette. That simply isn't true... not in actually flight nor in the outfitting statistics. It is, however, only better than the Krait in pitch by half a degree. However, it's higher speed, and the aforementioned vertical thrust, give it more agility. For me, the weirdest thing was watching the outfitting stats fail to change AT ALL from non-engineered 7A thrusters through G5. Then I add drag drives, and the pitch increased by 1 degree. I'm sure this is due to the high optimal mass or whatever... I saw someone earlier talking about it. That's fair, though it would've been nice for them to warn us about that as this isn't a behavior we have EVER seen any ship before this one (because it has such oversized engines).

It does have a good shield multiplier which gives it much stronger shields (about 20%) for me than my Krait. And the internals are very nice. I do miss the better visibility in the Krait, a 3rd seat (though I sadly never get to do multicrew (and it probably would bug out if I did)), but it is a fine ship.

It's possible I could make it into a big ship killer like my Python Mk2, but I don't think I will. I'll save the P2 for the big assassination missions, possibly mixed with some ground missions, and leave the the Corsair for small/medium ship killing, multirole activities, and ground missions. And, as I stated earlier, I might even increase it's lethality against the big ships by replacing the MCs with actual cannons. Those can be fun to blast modules with. If my Chieftain could rapidly kill Anaconda's with it's 2 C3 beam lasers, 1 C2 Cannon, and 3 C1 cannons, I think the Corsair would do even better with the it's 3 C3 beams and 3 C2 cannons.

The only adjustment the ship may need is maybe increase the pitch rate by 2 to 4 degrees. However, after learning how to utilize that powerful vertical thrust (I do it on all my ships, but this one is a beast) in turns, it may not need it.

This ship does NOT need a nerf, though. It isn't OP. If they were to increase the pitch rate to match the Python Mk 2... ok, yeah, that's overdoing it.

 

[mtfatboy3006]

I'm quite amazed that I'm seeing a lot of chat here and reddit about how the Corsair doesn't pitch or yaw as quickly as other ships. As though this is some deal breaker.

I've twice blacked out trying to turn it. To be fair, I can't recreate that. But it did happen. But let's, for one moment, consider that it needs to be more agile than it is.

It does this:

1. It's faster than the Krait MkII. Faster than basically any ship short of small, very specific ships like the Imperial Courier.
2. It's got much, much stronger shields than the Krait MkII. I actually took my shields from my Krait and put them onto my Corsair and gained... something like 800 base strength. In all ways, it's better in this regard. It's not even a contest here, which surprised me.
3. I think it has much, much stronger hull. I say this because my military, fully upgraded armour on my Krait has something like 1.1k hull strength and my Corsair... with lightweight... and no upgrades to its armour have... 950 or so... I'll confirm when I actually finish upgrading it, but my guess is I can absolutely destroy my Krait's armour strength once fully upgraded.
4. It has better internals. Due to this, it can do everything the Krait MkII can do except deploy a fighter ship. Which it makes up for with the additional medium hard point. And, while we're talking about hard points...
5. Has, by a very, very wide margin, some of the best weapon convergence of many ships I can think of... Insanely good. To the point I have absolutely dropped gimble for it, except for the third, underbelly medium. Whilst I think it's no Python MKII beater, it absolutely is super fun for combat and doesn't slouch at all in any regard of this feature. I've immediately adopted fixed weaponry because of this, it's just trivial to use against PVE.

Do we really need this to be more agile than a Corvette? I see that said a lot. And I get that to a certain degree, because one is a large ship. I'm just not feeling it, because my Corvette a) doesn't hit 595ms/s and b) doesn't change vector even nearly as quickly as this ship. It turns faster than I expect from a heavy ship. And I think that's ok. I also don't expect a multirole ship to... beat every other ship at every other thing it can do. Which the Corsair would do if they made it more agile than it already is. To be clear, it is not sluggish in any regard.

Like, I'm all for making this ship better. I paid money for it on two accounts. If you wanna buff it even more, go for it, guys! I'll take that if you lot insist. But does it really need it? It's not even "straight line fast" like most ships that can hit these speeds. It turns... fast. Maybe pitch and yaw aren't going to break your neck but it reacts to its new vector about as fast as a small ship does. I point it where I want to go and it... just agrees with me.

And you lot want more?

It just feels like most people are taking its only, very slight, downside, comparing it to some other entirely not multirole ships, then saying this is disappointing because it doesn't emulate that... If I had read all these comments before trying it myself, I'd have expected some Clipper/Cutter-esque performance. I'd have been entirely surprised.

I'll shut up now, though. If you can all somehow persuade FD to make this awesome ship stronger, I'll not stand in your way.

The disappointment stems from the fact that it was billed as a successor to the Clipper, but it is both slower and less maneuverable, despite being smaller and having larger thrusters. It wasn't teased as a successor to the Krait Mk II. It has very little in common with the Clipper at all. It's a fine ship. Maybe a great ship. It just isn't the medium Gutamaya people had hoped for and had been led to expect.

 

[Starlanced]

The disappointment stems from the fact that it was billed as a successor to the Clipper, but it is both slower and less maneuverable, despite being smaller and having larger thrusters. It wasn't teased as a successor to the Krait Mk II. It has very little in common with the Clipper at all. It's a fine ship. Maybe a great ship. It just isn't the medium Gutamaya people had hoped for and had been led to expect.

Yup, all they had to do was give it the maneuverability of the clipper with a bit more speed and less drift, that's what I'd think most expected.

 

[kofeyh]

It's an agile ship with amazing speed. It may not be "the most agile of all ships", but I don't think they said that, did they? And why does it need it?! Honestly, why? How many buffs does it need?

It's a medium ship that flies like a large ship, has unusual pitch behaviour, does not yaw and is not a speed freak. So it's basically the opposite of whatever Frontier had communicated and advertised. It's really a whole new thing and folks flying the thing are grappling with that. It is also very far away from Mandalay handling.

Is it "good", sure? It should be (all ships should be good) but only in that it has more hardpoints than clipper (the latter of which is faster and more agile albeit with a bit of drift) I think immediately responding that people want something broken is to simply misread the commentary. The feedback is, in the main, that the ship feels weird and has some odd characteristics and it's not clear what we have is either what the community or Frontier had expected.

Frontier billed this as a fast agile thing. Instead, it has unusually lumpy handling for a medium, requires use of roll and vertical thruster to counter whatever is going on with the variable pitch behaviour, the minimum mass for class 7 being so much higher than the hull mass, results in it handling better the heavier it gets (which is counterintuitive). I am not sure if this is literally a couple stats that need correcting or what.

Personally? It's growing on me, but the reality is, Frontier have essentially sprung a large ship version of the courier, concepted as a medium with some eccentricities added for, presumably, multi-role flavour. It's always the multi-role ships Frontier does weird stuff with, I swear.