Next Update = 2020

If you're referring to the rather high payouts you can get from core-mining: shutup!shutup!shutup!shutup!shutup!shutup!!!

:)
That's only a small part of the issue... Keep your high payouts! :)

The unnecessary amounts of outfitting now required.

The PWA risks being little more than "here's the next Motherlode in a sea of asteriods you're not interested in, even though I've highlighted them."

And the entire frequency and balance of surface, subsurface and then motherlodes is skews to the extent of being bizarre.

And we still have no clue as to how and what this supposed depletion mechanic is, and if/what it adds to the mechanic?

etc...


I don't get how the initial design didn't sort/consider this!?
 
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I would guess the delay would be something engine related. Maybe a engine rebuild to accommodate the atmosphere/spacelegs/fps stuff. It's been done on other titles before, not that uncommon these days. Who knows could be a completely new version of Elite. 😂😂😂😂😂
IMO
 
Ah, the good ol' Dilbert situation:
"I can do one of these two things in the time allotted - which one shall I do?"
"Just roll them into one thing and do that."

......

Well, guess what - not everything is about us. In many ways we're the least​ important people here because they've already got our money - it's not like we're going to cancel our subscriptions.

Oddly enough, I wonder if that's exactly what they are doing here.

If the theories about The Next Big Thing being aimed at creating a "killer app" for next-gen consoles are correct then that might also be the reason why FDev think it'll be important to make the game more accessible for newbies too.
 
That's the thing.

At the one extreme, if there was no out-of-game source of advice, I doubt any of us would have experience more than a fraction of what the game has to offer.
At the other extreme, though, a comprehensive tutorial for everything in the game would be, erm, pretty-much the entire game.

Clearly, the "sweet spot" is somewhere between those two extremes but then you have to decide what stuff is covered and what isn't.
And then there's still the issue of how you ensure a player is capable of going along with a tutorial too.

Do you restrict the tutorials to stuff that a player can do in a Sidey or do you keep on providing some kind of pop-up messages for months, or even years, when a player first encounters something or other?
When you think of other games, their main purpose is typically not teaching a player how to play the game. Usually it provides the player with some basic information on the first start and will then add some necessary details, if it expands possibilities for the player to take advantage of. Therefore the difficulty of a game rarely is supposed to be based on the fact that the game hides basic, necessary information from players. I mean sure, you are supposed to find the best best tactics against Thargoids for yourself. But hiding the information on how to find the right tools to fight the Thargoids, that would be an issue. Whenever a game loop comes down to a simple trial and error process, games are often criticised for that. So that situation should be avoided, especially in ED, since a lot of time consuming travel might be involved in a process. It is a good basis for frustration.
 
When you think of other games, their main purpose is typically not teaching a player how to play the game. Usually it provides the player with some basic information on the first start and will then add some necessary details, if it expands possibilities for the player to take advantage of. Therefore the difficulty of a game rarely is supposed to be based on the fact that the game hides basic, necessary information from players. I mean sure, you are supposed to find the best best tactics against Thargoids for yourself. But hiding the information on how to find the right tools to fight the Thargoids, that would be an issue. Whenever a game loop comes down to a simple trial and error process, games are often criticised for that. So that situation should be avoided, especially in ED, since a lot of time consuming travel might be involved in a process. It is a good basis for frustration.

Just to provide a little analogy...

I once played an RTS which had a comprehensive set of tutorials.
It started off telling me to build a command-centre.
Then it told me to build a resource-gatherer.
Then it told me to build a barracks.
Then it told me my base was being attacked and I needed to build soldiers to defend it.
Then it told me to build a science lab.
Then it told me to research some upgrades.
Then it told me to build defence turrets.
Then it told me to build anti-aircraft guns.
Then it told me to build a factory.
Then it told me to upgrade my barracks.
Then it told me to upgrade my factory.
Etc.

Then, eventually, it told me I'd completed the tutorials.

At which point, I thought "So, what do I do now?"
I spent about half an hour ordering my little soldiers and tanks around, exploring the map, but there was clearly something the game expected me to do to complete the level and I just wasn't doing it.
I quit the game and never played it again.

For me, that's always been a terrific example of how not to do tutorials.
It's telling the player what to do but not telling them why they should do it.


Thing is (and I really don't mean this as a criticism) ED is actually an incredibly simple game to play.
You waggle the joystick around to make your spaceship do stuff and when you land there's a bunch of different things you can do to earn credits and upgrade your ship.
That's it, really (at the moment, at least)*.

Everything else that you'll need to find out about IS the game, as opposed to being how to play the game.

As long as the game makes you aware of all the tools you have available to you, discovering everything else (to me, at least) is what playing the game all about.


*On that note, we're currently at a stage of ED's development where we're led to believe that major changes are coming.
It doesn't seem terribly useful to spend the time improving a newbie's experience of the current paradigm while you're also working on something that will substantially change that paradigm.
 
I have a theory. Actually I have no supporting evidence so it's more of a hypothesis.

The horizons season took much longer than people expected. I think it took longer than FD expected. Some features announced (ice planets, carriers), have been dropped/delayed. FD for a long time now are very reluctant to talk about what's coming next.

PC and JWE seem to be working well, but ED is beset with problems. I do not believe this is because FD have abandoned ED in favour of the other games. I think ED has reached the limits of the Cobra engine. This is why things have taken longer than expected, why some features turned out not to be viable and why FD don't want to tell us what's being worked on (because they can't be sure any of it will work) and why some bugs just won't go away.

FD tell us they have been working on the 'next evolution of Elite' for some months, and now they tell us it will take another year and a half. Wouldn't that be about the amount of time it would take for an engine rewrite/major update?

...and if FD are updating Cobra to suit ED specifically then :D. If I am correct then I see a very bright future, but as I say this is pure speculation.

The delay is so they can work on their new game, mate. That's it. Period. Its JWE all over again.
 
as someone who has followed the development of ED you must admit a experience of Deja Vu happened when you saw the announcement of "New Era" and quickly followed by the news fdev has started development of new game from a licensed franchise. As it was with the announcement with JWE, ED got on the backburner so they could make a new licensed game. And this is fine, fdev is in the business to make games. ED is no longer their biggest income and they have to rely on licensed franchises to keep the company afloat.
 
I was new roughly six months before horizons came out. The biggest help for a new player imho would be bringing all the resources and info third party sites give you into the game.
 
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Ah good, someone with definite knowledge rather than just an opinion. What are your sources?

come on: let's be serious here... it just like jurassic park started to be developed that we habve seen one season going in 2 years with delay, bugs and feature removed or wit minimal effort created §(multicrew for example or the new ice planet or the carrier just to mention a few)
 
come on: let's be serious here... it just like jurassic park started to be developed that we habve seen one season going in 2 years with delay, bugs and feature removed or wit minimal effort created §(multicrew for example or the new ice planet or the carrier just to mention a few)

It's almost like FDev have always been a multi-game developer, with Screamride, Planet Coaster, and Jurassic World Evolution, all being developed simultaneously with Elite Dangerous' many updates. FDev have never been a one-game devhouse.
 
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I have a theory. Actually I have no supporting evidence so it's more of a hypothesis.

The horizons season took much longer than people expected. I think it took longer than FD expected. Some features announced (ice planets, carriers), have been dropped/delayed. FD for a long time now are very reluctant to talk about what's coming next.

PC and JWE seem to be working well, but ED is beset with problems. I do not believe this is because FD have abandoned ED in favour of the other games. I think ED has reached the limits of the Cobra engine. This is why things have taken longer than expected, why some features turned out not to be viable and why FD don't want to tell us what's being worked on (because they can't be sure any of it will work) and why some bugs just won't go away.

FD tell us they have been working on the 'next evolution of Elite' for some months, and now they tell us it will take another year and a half. Wouldn't that be about the amount of time it would take for an engine rewrite/major update?

...and if FD are updating Cobra to suit ED specifically then :D. If I am correct then I see a very bright future, but as I say this is pure speculation.


The significant flaw here in your hypothesis, and with the diehard fans hope, is that is doesn't make good business sense to invest in this four year old game. Think about what this costs to deliver: if there really is 100 developers working for two years that's easily in the $20-$25M cost range and likely more. Obviously FDev would want to see a decent profit so sales would have to be in the $60M or greater. How much do you think this DLC will sell for?

I think you said you like to see facts. So do these facts add up and make any sense for your hypothesis? Would any developer invest $25M in updating the engine in a four year old game - six or seven year old game by the time of the change - and expect it to be profitable? Umm... No.

As Black said the only thing that makes sense is a new game title. For the fans it hurts to hear that. But that would be good business. And FDev have already done this by not investing in Elite over the past 2+ years but instead invested in new titles.
 
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The significant flaw here in your hypothesis, and with the diehard fans hope, is that is doesn't make good business sense to invest in this four year old game. Think about what this costs to deliver: if there really is 100 developers working for two years that's easily in the $20-$25M cost range and likely more. Obviously FDev would want to see a decent profit so sales would have to be in the $60M or greater. How much do you think this DLC will sell for?

I think you said you like to see facts. So do these facts add up and make any sense for your hypothesis? Would any developer invest $25M in updating the engine in a four year old game - six or seven year old game by the time of the change - and expect it to be profitable? Umm... No.

As Black said the only thing that makes sense is a new game title. For the fans it hurts to hear that. But that would be good business. And FDev have already done this by not investing in Elite over the past 2+ years but instead invested in new titles.

I'm sure if devs were working for you they'd be very happy to be on an average salary of £125k. From the 2018 yearly report:

Gross research and development expenses in the period were £15.9 million (FY17: £12.7 million). The majority of spend related to internal staff costs, and the increase in the year largely reflects headcount increases. However, outsourcing is becoming a more significant cost element and accounts for some of the increase in total gross spend in the period.

So the entire spend was circa £16m for 400 staff (as per official Wikipedia). Likely to be somewhat less when you strip out research costs.

That's roughly an average of £40k per staff member. 100 staff* x 40 = £4m a year, so circa £8m for two years. That's about $10.5m.

If each expansion is £40 ($52) they'd have to sell roughly 200k to break even.

* of course many don't believe 100 staff are working on the game, so ironically the costs are going to be less.
 
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I'm sure if devs were working for you they'd be very happy to be on an average salary of £125k. From the 2018 yearly report:



So the entire spend was circa £16m for 400 staff (as per official Wikipedia). Likely to be somewhat less when you strip out research costs.

That's roughly an average of £40k per staff member. 100 staff* x 40 = £4m a year, so circa £8m for two years. That's about $10.5m.

If each expansion is £40 ($52) they'd have to sell roughly 200k to break even.

* of course many don't believe 100 staff are working on the game, so ironically the costs are going to be less.

Mic drop. GGWP
 
The significant flaw here in your hypothesis, and with the diehard fans hope, is that is doesn't make good business sense to invest in this four year old game. Think about what this costs to deliver: if there really is 100 developers working for two years that's easily in the $20-$25M cost range and likely more. Obviously FDev would want to see a decent profit so sales would have to be in the $60M or greater. How much do you think this DLC will sell for?

I think you said you like to see facts. So do these facts add up and make any sense for your hypothesis? Would any developer invest $25M in updating the engine in a four year old game - six or seven year old game by the time of the change - and expect it to be profitable? Umm... No.

As Black said the only thing that makes sense is a new game title. For the fans it hurts to hear that. But that would be good business. And FDev have already done this by not investing in Elite over the past 2+ years but instead invested in new titles.


So you mean the games not worth to put more workcraft in anymore as seen from the companys sight?
 
lol that mathematics formulas for money.

Company always want profit, and profit in Elite mean do and make very very little content and effort. And put that money in other game. OR make huge update and sell it again as paid expansion.
Its not about numbers its about human psychology, they dont talk too much and play mysterious. Its good tactic, they simple make something huge or do nothing.

Sorry but this game always look like techdemo for them and put that they learn into other game.
 
Stop using the word ‘maintenance mode’.

It’s obvious you don’t have a clue what it means.

Those of us stating the game was in maintenance mode have been ultimately proven right. FDev have provided close to nothing on the pretence of a year of "free updates". Updates that were already thin but became even thinner after failing to deliver on the promise of fleet carriers and improved planet terrain. The only reason 2018 was free was because FDev knew it was so minor they couldn't sell it.

They now admit that they took a sabbatical they knew they could get away with, propped up by fan boys with multiple accounts going over paint jobs and ship kits, while they diverted the majority of workers onto Jurassic Evolution.

The fact that they have nothing waiting in the wings for 2019 is a huge admission. Remember the line "over 100 people working on Elite", what a joke and a talking point...

I eagerly await what FDev decide to be enough of a buggy minimum viable product to stick a price tag on for 2020.
 
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