NIS - when NVIDIA fixed what FDev wont.

Lurk

L
Lulzwhat said:
Probably ultra-wide is not supported.
What resolutions choice you have in settings aften enabling NIS?
Click to expand...
I'm not at home so I can't check right now.
From memory, the first res made available by NIS after my native is 85%, some odd number like 3236x1248 (I'll report back later with the correct figures).
I find it strange that there is no feedback yet on the web in regard to this matter, as if nobody with a 21:9 monitor and an Nvidia GPU has yet noticed.
I tried all other NIS resolutions as well, and in other games too. They all stretch the image just the same.
 

MacIntoc

MacIntoc
Morbad said:
Yes, the game has always had an internal scaler and more recently (but well prior to FSR) added CAS as well, but it's not the same as FSR.
Click to expand...
What is the difference ? As far as i understand the AMD documentation, the technical difference between FSR and CAS is that FSR include a scaler. Do you mean that FDev may not inject FSR and their internal scaler+CAS at the same rendering stage ?
 

Oztig

Oztig
Lurk said:
I'm not at home so I can't check right now.
From memory, the first res made available by NIS after my native is 85%, some odd number like 3236x1248 (I'll report back later with the correct figures).
I find it strange that there is no feedback yet on the web in regard to this matter, as if nobody with a 21:9 monitor and an Nvidia GPU has yet noticed.
I tried all other NIS resolutions as well, and in other games too. They all stretch the image just the same.
Click to expand...
Ive got a widescreen monitor running at that res, and have got NIS working - when I get home, I'll let you know my settings
 

Lurk

L
Oztig said:
Ive got a widescreen monitor running at that res, and have got NIS working - when I get home, I'll let you know my settings
Click to expand...
Wow. I'm speechless. And worried as to why I can't get this to work.
Hope it's not a problem with my specific model of monitor, as it would be a good enough reason for me to change it. I have an Asus VG34VQL1B. And you?
Please do let me know, I'm very curious at this point. I always run Odyssey at fullscreen native resolution with G-sync enabled. Monitor is connected via DP.
 
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Oztig

Oztig
Lurk said:
Wow. I'm speechless. And worried as to why I can't get this to work.
Hope it's not a problem with my specific model of monitor, as it would be a good enough reason for me to change it. I have an Asus VG34VQL1B. And you?
Please do let me know, I'm very curious at this point. I always run Odyssey at fullscreen native resolution with G-sync enabled. Monitor is connected via HDMI.
Click to expand...
Home, and checking settings now ....

EDIT:

From Nvidia Control Panel:
. Ensure Image Scaling Is ON
. Slide bar is just for image sharpening
. This should create 5 new gfx resolutions within EDO
. Initially, tick the 'Overlay Indicator' - at least you'll know if it's working or not
. You will see 'NIS' at top left of your screen, whilst in game. Blue = Sharpening only, green = Scaling and sharpening.

In EDO:
. Options->Graphics->Display
. on Resolution dropdown, you should see some new 'odd' resolutions - I'm using 2924x1224 - which is 3440x1440 (85%)
. https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/news/nvidia-image-scaler-dlss-rtx-november-2021-updates/ explains and shows the example new resolutions you should see.
. As with mine, yours will be different, as our screens are different res, but you should get the idea from this

N.B. Don't foget to turn off any AMD stuff i.e. In 'Quality', set upscaling to 'Normal'

Good luck, hopefully this should get you going - any questions, just post here.

FYI - I've an Alienware 3420DW - 3420x1440 (same res as yours), but connected by Display Port
 
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Lurk

L
Edit to my post above: I'm connected via Display Port. Also, NIS resolutions force 60Hz, while my monitor can do 165.
 
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Oztig

Oztig
Lurk said:
Edit to my post above: I'm connected via Display Port. Also, NIS resolutions force 60Hz, while my monitor can do 165. what.
Click to expand...
Also check:, in Display Settings

I've got vertical sync:ON
Refresh Rate: set to max rate of my monitor, in my case 120
Frame Rate Limit:Off

This works for me,

hope it helps
 

Morbad

Morbad
MacIntoc said:
What is the difference ? As far as i understand the AMD documentation, the technical difference between FSR and CAS is that FSR include a scaler. Do you mean that FDev may not inject FSR and their internal scaler+CAS at the same rendering stage ?
Click to expand...

I don't know when they are injected, though they both happen early enough for software to capture them.

FSR's scaler (some kind of custom two-pass lanczos algorithm) is not the same as the other ones available (CAS scaling pass is a weighted bilinear) and does not produce the same image. The whole reason for FSR to exist was to produce better upsampling quality than existing spatial scalers...hopefully enough to rival temporal ones. In good implementations, it's generally a match for TAAU, while being lower overhead, but needs a higher input resolution to rival DLSS, which erodes it overhead advantage there. The NIS algorithm was revamped to be a rival to FSR, and, it looks like it's broadly succeeded, as far as subjective image quality and objective overhead go. Of course, implementation is important.

In EDO's case, FSR is considerably crisper, at the cost of greater aliasing, than FidelityFX CAS, while both FSR and CAS do more than the very basic (probably pure bilinear/bicubic) filtering the base supersampling feature uses. It's also quite distinct, in visual output, from NIS, even if they are subjectively comparable. At this point I could likely tell the difference between any of them in EDO, immediately, in a blind test, because:

-Vanilla sub-sampling has the lowest detail and uniformly blurs the whole output.
-FidelityFX CAS preserves more texture detail while reducing aliasing more than the above.
-FSR retains much sharper texture detail, at the cost of worst aliasing than even the standard sub-sampling.
-NIS looks a lot like FSR, but at the default 50% sharpen, oversharpens noticeably, and the appearance, if not raw magnitude, of it's aliasing differs...text in particular is notably much more rounded, but much of that is probably an artifact of it being the only filter that applies to the UI, due to when it's performed.

Lurk said:
Edit to my post above: I'm connected via Display Port. Also, NIS resolutions force 60Hz, while my monitor can do 165.
Click to expand...

If setting the global refresh rate to maximum doesn't work, you may need to make a custom resolution.
 

Lurk

L
Oztig said:
Home, and checking settings now ....

EDIT:

From Nvidia Control Panel:
. Ensure Image Scaling Is ON
. Slide bar is just for image sharpening
. This should create 5 new gfx resolutions within EDO
. Initially, tick the 'Overlay Indicator' - at least you'll know if it's working or not
. You will see 'NIS' at top left of your screen, whilst in game. Blue = Sharpening only, green = Scaling and sharpening.

In EDO:
. Options->Graphics->Display
. on Resolution dropdown, you should see some new 'odd' resolutions - I'm using 2924x1224 - which is 3440x1440 (85%)
. https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/news/nvidia-image-scaler-dlss-rtx-november-2021-updates/ explains and shows the example new resolutions you should see.
. As with mine, yours will be different, as our screens are different res, but you should get the idea from this

N.B. Don't foget to turn off any AMD stuff i.e. In 'Quality', set upscaling to 'Normal'

Good luck, hopefully this should get you going - any questions, just post here.

FYI - I've an Alienware 3420DW - 3420x1440 (same res as yours), but connected by Display Port
Click to expand...

Oztig said:
Also check:, in Display Settings

I've got vertical sync:ON
Refresh Rate: set to max rate of my monitor, in my case 120
Frame Rate Limit:Off

This works for me,

hope it helps
Click to expand...

As far as I remember I use the exact same settings. I'll check home in the weekend. I'm beginning to worry this is a problem related to the monitor itself, which would really suck.
Thanks for your help!
 
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SergMx

SergMx
I don't understand how you can compare FSR and CAS.
The first is a magnification of the image and the second is a filter to remove the blur. In fact, CAS is needed to reduce the amount of blur in FSR.
 

MacIntoc

MacIntoc
SergMx said:
I don't understand how you can compare FSR and CAS.
The first is a magnification of the image and the second is a filter to remove the blur. In fact, CAS is needed to reduce the amount of blur in FSR.
Click to expand...
FSR is AMD's scaler+CAS. But since ED have is own scaler, you can compare ED's scaler+CAS and FSR.
 

SergMx

SergMx
MacIntoc said:
FSR is AMD's scaler+CAS. But since ED have is own scaler, you can compare ED's scaler+CAS and FSR.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, these are different technologies.
gpuopen.com

AMD FidelityFX™ Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (CAS)

AMD FidelityFX Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (CAS) provides a mixed ability to sharpen and optionally scale an image.
gpuopen.com gpuopen.com
gpuopen.com

AMD FidelityFX™ Super Resolution 1 (FSR 1)

AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) is our open-source, high-quality, high-performance upscaling solution.
gpuopen.com gpuopen.com
Judging by the dock, СAS may or may not be enabled in FSR mode.
 
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Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
SergMx said:
In my opinion, these are different technologies.
gpuopen.com

AMD FidelityFX™ Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (CAS)

AMD FidelityFX Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (CAS) provides a mixed ability to sharpen and optionally scale an image.
gpuopen.com gpuopen.com
gpuopen.com

AMD FidelityFX™ Super Resolution 1 (FSR 1)

AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) is our open-source, high-quality, high-performance upscaling solution.
gpuopen.com gpuopen.com
Judging by the dock, СAS may or may not be enabled in FSR mode.
Click to expand...
In theory, yes, but in practice CAS is always enabled to some extent.
 

zimms

zimms
Ian Skippy said:
In theory, yes, but in practice CAS is always enabled to some extent.
Click to expand...
Close Air Support you say?
HCLlsNl.gif
 

MacIntoc

MacIntoc
SergMx said:
In my opinion, these are different technologies.
gpuopen.com

AMD FidelityFX™ Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (CAS)

AMD FidelityFX Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (CAS) provides a mixed ability to sharpen and optionally scale an image.
gpuopen.com gpuopen.com
gpuopen.com

AMD FidelityFX™ Super Resolution 1 (FSR 1)

AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) is our open-source, high-quality, high-performance upscaling solution.
gpuopen.com gpuopen.com
Judging by the dock, СAS may or may not be enabled in FSR mode.
Click to expand...
You can look at this document : https://raw.githubusercontent.com/G.../docs/FidelityFX-FSR-Overview-Integration.pdf
On page 13, there is a fairly explicit diagram. But the whole document is interesting.
 

Morbad

Morbad
MacIntoc said:
FSR is AMD's scaler+CAS. But since ED have is own scaler, you can compare ED's scaler+CAS and FSR.
Click to expand...

FidelityFX CAS has it's own optional scaling algorithm that is distinct from FSR, while FSR is made up of two functions--Edge-Adaptive Spatial Upsampling (EASU) and Robust Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (RCAS)--the latter of which is not the same as the original CAS included with FidelityFX CAS.


I'm not sure if EDO's FidelityFX CAS option uses the game's original/normal scaler or not, but the fact that it replaces the normal supersampling option suggests the latter.

SergMx said:
I don't understand how you can compare FSR and CAS.
The first is a magnification of the image and the second is a filter to remove the blur. In fact, CAS is needed to reduce the amount of blur in FSR.
Click to expand...

They both include scaling and sharpening filters, just different ones. They can be, and are, used for for the same ultimate purposes.

Also, FSR doesn't really add much blur. Both FSR and NIS work best with strong anti-aliasing, which is why both look rather crappy in EDO. They do very little to mitigate aliasing and can even exacerbate it, which is extremely noticeable because the game's antialiasing options are so weak.

Ian Skippy said:
In theory, yes, but in practice CAS is always enabled to some extent.
Click to expand...

(FidelityFX) CAS is not the same algorithm as RCAS.

Straight from the comments in the actual shaders:
CAS uses a simplified mechanism to convert local contrast into a variable amount of sharpness.
RCAS uses a more exact mechanism, solving for the maximum local sharpness possible before clipping.
RCAS also has a built in process to limit sharpening of what it detects as possible noise.
RCAS sharper does not support scaling, as it should be applied after EASU scaling.
Pass EASU output straight into RCAS, no color conversions necessary.

github.com

slang-shaders/fsr/shaders/ffx_fsr1.h at master · libretro/slang-shaders

Contribute to libretro/slang-shaders development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com github.com

AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution 1.0 (FSR) demystified

Journal of my experience porting AMD FSR to RetroArch on a GLSL Fragment Shading pass while making it work on OpenGL for the first time.
jntesteves.github.io jntesteves.github.io

SergMx said:
In my opinion, these are different technologies.
Click to expand...

SergMx said:
For some reason it is the same point in the Elite. You can choose either one or the other.
Click to expand...

Because they are different and, for practical purposes, mutually exclusive. FSR mandates RCAS sharpening, but it's not the same sharpening that's part of FidelityFX CAS.
 

SergMx

SergMx
Morbad said:
FidelityFX CAS has it's own optional scaling algorithm that is distinct from FSR, while FSR is made up of two functions--Edge-Adaptive Spatial Upsampling (EASU) and Robust Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (RCAS)--the latter of which is not the same as the original CAS included with FidelityFX CAS.


I'm not sure if EDO's FidelityFX CAS option uses the game's original/normal scaler or not, but the fact that it replaces the normal supersampling option suggests the latter.



They both include scaling and sharpening filters, just different ones. They can be, and are, used for for the same ultimate purposes.

Also, FSR doesn't really add much blur. Both FSR and NIS work best with strong anti-aliasing, which is why both look rather crappy in EDO. They do very little to mitigate aliasing and can even exacerbate it, which is extremely noticeable because the game's antialiasing options are so weak.



(FidelityFX) CAS is not the same algorithm as RCAS.

Straight from the comments in the actual shaders:
CAS uses a simplified mechanism to convert local contrast into a variable amount of sharpness.
RCAS uses a more exact mechanism, solving for the maximum local sharpness possible before clipping.
RCAS also has a built in process to limit sharpening of what it detects as possible noise.
RCAS sharper does not support scaling, as it should be applied after EASU scaling.
Pass EASU output straight into RCAS, no color conversions necessary.

github.com

slang-shaders/fsr/shaders/ffx_fsr1.h at master · libretro/slang-shaders

Contribute to libretro/slang-shaders development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com github.com

AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution 1.0 (FSR) demystified

Journal of my experience porting AMD FSR to RetroArch on a GLSL Fragment Shading pass while making it work on OpenGL for the first time.
jntesteves.github.io jntesteves.github.io





Because they are different and, for practical purposes, mutually exclusive. FSR mandates RCAS sharpening, but it's not the same sharpening that's part of FidelityFX CAS.
Click to expand...
Interesting.
I remember a lot of noise when the DLSS and FSR were announced. But I don't remember anything like that about the CAS.
It seems to me that the inclusion of different scaling coefficients in CAS is only in the Elite. And AMD themselves intended to use it together with FSR to reduce its soap.
 
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