No motivation to go on.

[rrobes]

All modes are not equal. No wings in solo

So I just came back after a few weeks to try the new update, and I really like what they did with the radio chatter and the graphics, however, I'm at this point in the game in which everything seems like a huge mountain climb, and this update has made it even harder.

First I start with my current objectives:

-Earn about 300 million more, to install a good shield and an A PP to my Cutter.
-Improve reputation with the empire and see if there are any Empire-aligned engineers.
-Get access to the engineers and start collecting materials to improve the different modules

Problems:

-Farming in Haz res is out of the question now, tried to get my Cutter there, faced an NPC Anaconda, and I beat it, but It left me at 32% with a breached canopy: Total earnings : 100k
I welcome the challenge of the new and harder AI, but the rewards should really be increased to compensate.
-I couldn't find missions, docked at many stations, looked for systems in state of war, most of the missions were for small ships and no combat oriented ones. They all paid pretty low. Only found one combat mission, and it paid 100k.

Neither of these options will help me earn money or get along with the Empire

-Trading back and fourth seems to be the only viable way to make money now and achieve at least the first objective, but having so little time and so many more engaging games to play right now, I can't justify spending my time doing that. While I could be having fun in Overwatch instead, or just beating any game of my backlog. And thats before even starting to talk about getting materials for the modules.

TL;DR: The game has become even slower and grindier.

I understand how you feel.

My first time out in my A-class tanked FAS with the new update I ended up knocking down a Courier, Explorer and Python in a HIRES, that is the good news, The bad news is I had to leave the RES because I had my hull shot to 50%, my modules were malfunctioning and my canopy was seriously damaged. The amount of bounty I obtained was half eaten up by repairs/reload, not good. I tried again, same results, my FAS felt like a bus in comparison and due to the newly acquired speed and the constant chaff from attackers of the small ships, my lasers had no time on target, I couldn't damage them substantially. Then there's their propensity to ram. Their behavior is suicidal, no doubt, and one of their "deaths" is inconsequential because there's more where he came from.

So, went to bed PO'ed. Next day I rethought what had happened and changed several things. First my load out, kept my 3C g laser and installed three frag cannons, one 3C g and two 2D g. This would greatly increase the chance of hit during the NPC head-on attacks and due to their speed, if ED uses real physics in their computations, these weapons will inflict greater damage to the attacker as impact speed is the sum of the ammo velocity and the velocity of the attacking NPC.

Secondly I increased maneuver. You must use Flight Assist off/on. I programmed one of my stick button to cycle F/A. This allows my FAS or any other ship to turn in any direction quite sharply and if you cycle it quickly you will be able to regain control instantly.

Thirdly, tactics must change. Before the upgrade, I would not hesitate to take on any NPC ship, regardless of size or rating in any zone, one to one. And wings, if the mix was right. I could stay out for hours and incur minimal damage and farm millions. Now you need to pick your fights, and use security forces to soften your target.

So, I put this to the test, initially in just a a plain RES zone. Knocked down a few ships using the new combo of weapons/maneuver/target selection. OK, success. Went to a HIRES and started slow and kept doing the same thing. Some time later, 1.2 mil CR bounty, 80% hull and some other slight damage, OK, great, all is not lost. I did again in a HIRES, collected 1+ million in bounties and for my last encounter, I took on an a single Anaconda just to prove to myself it could be done. Took it down and bugged out to collect the bounties and relax at starport.

All is not lost but you must evolve or perish (Darwinism in a sim game!).

Good luck, CMNDR!

"The Stars My Destination"
Alfred Bester

 

[Tenshi]

I like the changes so far, the AI is tough and now a challenge for a start. Trade missions payout are a nice level, had some that paid me over 1 million credits.

The only problem I have found is that sometimes when a trade mission updates it will send my type 7 to an outpost where I can't land and so will have to swap to a medium sized ship to complete it. Lucky I have an Asp Explorer at hand but its not outfitted, and so I will have to spend 1.5 million credits to hand in a 83k credit mission. Or take the fine and faction hit when I drop the mission.

 

[SMcA]

When anyone says "it is Elite DANGEROUS" I always think they sound like

I am a Commander of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother Me. (?)

90 years and still around.

 

[Cosmos]

When anyone says "it is Elite DANGEROUS" I always think they sound like Matt Damon in Team America..............Elite DANGEROUS.....hahaha.....like your argument is one word?....[haha][haha][haha][haha]
.
It is like someone complaining about an aspect of the new Star Wars films, too much cgi action or something...and you say........"STAR WARS".......hahaha

But thats the point. The moaning that goes on re the game regarding such things as jeopardy or difficulty is asinine. If you look at the marketing blurb for the games its littered with stuff that suggests its going to be dangerous. 'cut throat galaxy',' raw anarchy, powerplays'.
Its easier just to state the obvious.. Elite Dangerous. However, there seems to be an ever increasing movement to try to get the game to be anything but... "Oh I'm just a peaceful trader/explorer' Its like me buying a racing game and complaining its too stressful having a requirement to go fast, *because I* want to relax and play it as a sunday driver.. If I want to relax I go have a nice warm bath and a glass of wine, and light some scented candles.. That said, its not like ED requires an APM of 500 like a game of Star Craft II is it?

If folks want to play the game as a fruit and veg delivery driver thats up to them but that shouldn't be the bar for top difficulty setting.

COme to think of it the majority of the threads on this board are folks moaning about the game in some fashion. Its too this or too that, someone shot at me.. All whining drivel from people who appear to want to be playing my little pony in space. Its laughable.. [wacko]

 

[Lucifer Hate]

All modes are not equal. No wings in solo

when I say equal I mean equal in influence of BGS and things like community goals. The modes have never been equal at a difficulty standpoint as well solo has had it easier until now without having to worry about skilled enemies. Open having human pilots (PKers, pirates, bounty hunters) made it more difficult. Solo had it easy for to long with easy farming where NPC Elites could be killed as easy as NPC Harmless.

Now the worm has turned and is packing an uzi.

 

[micky1984]

"Play YOUR way" ...Their rules, not mine!

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And ours is with those that want the love child of Doom, Eve and dark souls in one big test tube.

i didnt say they cant play that way what i said is the reason they are now struggling is because of the way they have played

 

[micky1984]

What you've forgotten to take into account is why this was. Beatty didn't prosecute his advantage when the Germans retired for fear of mine strikes and/or torpedo attacks, which fit well into the concept of naval 'guerrilla' warfare (incidentally, the Royal Navy lost 3 cruisers in short order to one German U-boat very early in the war, which reinforced this fear that naval warfare was moving away from the glorious line battles that they had envisaged and more towards it's current form).

and what you missing is after the battle britian could still field 26 capital ships and the germans only ten the german fleet never enegaged the royal navy again in ww1 there is a bigger picture to the battle than numbers lost same in the battle of britian the german airforce was just as strong after the battle but never tried air superiority over britian again

 

[Goose4291]

and what you missing is after the battle britian could still field 26 capital ships and the germans only ten the german fleet never enegaged the royal navy again in ww1 there is a bigger picture to the battle than numbers lost same in the battle of britian the german airforce was just as strong after the battle but never tried air superiority over britian again

Read the post your commenting on. We're discussing how small ships can damage/kill a capital ship and that even in the example of the greatest naval stand up fight before Naval aviation revolutionised the field, the fear was so great of a loss to ships that they refused to prosecute an advantage as they felt the smaller craft posed was a risk too great to take. The idea these ships have an inherent advantage over smaller craft is also proven not true by the aforementioned sinking of the Naval cruisers by one submarine.

Weight of numbers had nothing to do with the discussion.

Also, as a side note: The idea the german navy never engaged again is extreme post war victory propaganda. They never engaged in a line battle, but commerce raiding by u-boats continued unmolested.

Just because your opponent refuses to meet you on the field of battle to their terms does not mean they're not gong to fight you another way.

 

[Bzek]

-Farming in Haz res is out of the question now, tried to get my Cutter there, faced an NPC Anaconda, and I beat it, but It left me at 32% with a breached canopy: Total earnings : 100k
I welcome the challenge of the new and harder AI, but the rewards should really be increased to compensate..

People said it before, but a smaller ship works out infinitely better. You could get away with bounty hunting in a Cutter before 2.1 because the AI was brain dead, but the risk-cost-reward of bounty hunting with a Cutter is very skewed right now.

It was why I was so vocal about how bad that ship handled when it came out. Now that the AI actually fights back competently you can actually see how unfit for purpose it is.

The sweet spot might be around the Imperial Clipper, the FAS, Python or FDL. Those ships seem to be in a really good position risk-cost-reward wise at the moment.

 

[Soon(TM)]

Problem is, the majority of players will find the new AI too hard.

The forum white knights with loads of credits and hundreds of hours in the game will defend it to the hilt so there's no point arguing it here.

But, the fact of the matter is, the hardcore players are the minority and if the game keeps going in this hardcore spend hundreds of hours to get anywhere, practice combat over and over to stand a chance mode.

The majoriy will quit, and ED will die.

That's not what any of us want.

We need balance.

 

[micky1984]

Read the post your commenting on. We're discussing how small ships can damage/kill a capital ship and that even in the example of the greatest naval stand up fight before Naval aviation revolutionised the field, the fear was so great of a loss to ships that they refused to prosecute an advantage as they felt the smaller craft posed was a risk too great to take. The idea these ships have an inherent advantage over smaller craft is also proven not true by the aforementioned sinking of the Naval cruisers by one submarine.

Weight of numbers had nothing to do with the discussion.

Also, as a side note: The idea the german navy never engaged again is extreme post war victory propaganda. They never engaged in a line battle, but commerce raiding by u-boats continued unmolested.

Just because your opponent refuses to meet you on the field of battle to their terms does not mean they're not gong to fight you another way.

you used a historical example the facts were that the german fleet never engaged the royal navy after that battle in ww1 the smaller ships may have won the battle but they lost the war again you trying and failing to muddy the waters comerce raiding is not engaging the royal navy its engaging the merchant navy the royal navy remained dominant force in the north atlantic as history proved

 

[Bzek]

Problem is, the majority of players will find the new AI too hard.

...

We need balance.

The majority of players that attacked a deadly ranked ship, maybe.

Low ranked ships I feel are making a deliberate attempt at getting in my crosshairs sometimes. People just need to learn to pick their fights better, is all. Before 2.1 you could just point at click at whatever ship of whatever rank and it made very little difference at all. More likely than not it would just kebab until it died.

The incremental difficulty curve where high ranked ships are highly difficult is precisely the balance you are calling for. If the AI is across the board diminished, that is not balance - that is making the game easier.

Pick your fights, choose your targets, improve your skills - and you'll be fine.

 

[Soon(TM)]

The majority of players that attacked a deadly ranked ship, maybe.

Low ranked ships I feel are making a deliberate attempt at getting in my crosshairs sometimes. People just need to learn to pick their fights better, is all. Before 2.1 you could just point at click at whatever ship of whatever rank and it made very little difference at all. More likely than not it would just kebab until it died.

The incremental difficulty curve where high ranked ships are highly difficult is precisely the balance you are calling for. If the AI is across the board diminished, that is not balance - that is making the game easier.

Pick your fights, choose your targets, improve your skills - and you'll be fine.

That's ok when your in a RES or combat zone.

But your can't choose what rank of ship interdicts you and you can't choose what rank of NPC you'll fight in many of the combat missions.

Many of the comments here are about being interdicted by elite class anaconda etc. For no reason, when they have no cargo either!

 

[Damien McCandless]

The majority of players that attacked a deadly ranked ship, maybe.

Low ranked ships I feel are making a deliberate attempt at getting in my crosshairs sometimes. People just need to learn to pick their fights better, is all. Before 2.1 you could just point at click at whatever ship of whatever rank and it made very little difference at all. More likely than not it would just kebab until it died.

The incremental difficulty curve where high ranked ships are highly difficult is precisely the balance you are calling for. If the AI is across the board diminished, that is not balance - that is making the game easier.

Pick your fights, choose your targets, improve your skills - and you'll be fine.

Which is fine... except I havent SEEN a sub Dangerous ship since the patch, and I cannot seem to outmaneuver a Daimondback in an Eagle anymore, which just doesnt seem right at all. So far, send around 50k in repairs for zero income.

 

[Goose4291]

you used a historical example the facts were that the german fleet never engaged the royal navy after that battle in ww1 the smaller ships may have won the battle but they lost the war again you trying and failing to muddy the waters comerce raiding is not engaging the royal navy its engaging the merchant navy the royal navy remained dominant force in the North Atlantic as history proved

No Micky, you're muddying the waters.

We were discussing how small ships can damage larger ships, as someone had quoted Jutland as an example of how it was unrealistic "for powerful vessels to suffer high loss rates, or be threatened by harrying of minor vessels", when this is clearly not the case.

It's not about who did/didn't win the battle, or who controlled the seas. It was about the idea that somehow large ships should be impervious to the actions of smaller ships, using Jutland as a historical precedent.

 

[micky1984]

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No Micky, your muddying the waters.

We were discussing how small ships can damage larger ships, as someone had quoted Jutland as an example of how it was unrealistic "for powerful vessels to suffer high loss rates, or be threatened by harrying of minor vessels", when this is clearly not the case.

It's not about who did/didn't win the battle, or who controlled the seas. It was about the idea that somehow large ships should be impervious to the actions of smaller ships, using Jutland as a historical precedent.

no im not the smaller ships did there part but they still lost the war that not muddying thats a fact its a really bad example because of that fact a better example would have been the commodore souths actions vs graf spee in ww2 battle of the river plate and i never said the larger ships should or even could be impervious that has never been the case ever in naval warfare because all surface ships can sink regardless of size

 

[Goose4291]

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no im not the smaller ships did there part but they still lost the war that not muddying thats a fact its a really bad example because of that fact a better example would have been the commodore souths actions vs graf spee in ww2 battle of the river plate and i never ai dth elarger ships should or even could be impervious that has never been the case ever in naval warfare because all surface ships can sink regardless of size

I know you never said that, and I agree that The Battle of the River Plate is a better example, however that wasn't the example the original poster was drawing on, and I was highlighting the reason why the example they gave didn't match what they were trying to say.

 

[Bernie65]

It's not about skills, it's about fairness, targets not spawning + stalked by Anacondas all the time, come on, I didn't have any fun, I'm just frustrated about the new update, fixing AI was the right way to go, making it unfair and unfun to do missions is a no go, all for 300k while risking to have to pay 4M insurance, please make the game fun, not more grindy to play

Agreed - I really love this game and I hope that they will make it fun again. Current state is just too much.

 

[Tiamat]

-Farming in Haz res is out of the question now

This seems to be where a lot of the unhappiness stems from. It was always my impression that lone CMDRs were never supposed to be able to take on entire wings by themselves but because the old AI was so bad many got used to the fact they could. Now (bugs aside) these places are mostly death for lone CMDRs as they should be many seem to be lamenting the loss of their gravy train.

Many don't seem to understand that once they have RES/Robigo farmed their way up to big ships they have no idea how to fly them and just sit there expecting to tank their way thorough. Navies aren't just comprised to massive dreadnoughts, they have smaller destoyers specifically because smaller more agile ships would cause them such problems. People aren't applying the same logic to ED. If you are in an annie you absolutely shoud have a wing of smaller combat ships to watch your flanks.

 

[rrobes]

But thats the point. The moaning that goes on re the game regarding such things as jeopardy or difficulty is asinine. If you look at the marketing blurb for the games its littered with stuff that suggests its going to be dangerous. 'cut throat galaxy',' raw anarchy, powerplays'.
Its easier just to state the obvious.. Elite Dangerous. However, there seems to be an ever increasing movement to try to get the game to be anything but... "Oh I'm just a peaceful trader/explorer' Its like me buying a racing game and complaining its too stressful having a requirement to go fast, *because I* want to relax and play it as a sunday driver.. If I want to relax I go have a nice warm bath and a glass of wine, and light some scented candles.. That said, its not like ED requires an APM of 500 like a game of Star Craft II is it?

If folks want to play the game as a fruit and veg delivery driver thats up to them but that shouldn't be the bar for top difficulty setting.

COme to think of it the majority of the threads on this board are folks moaning about the game in some fashion. Its too this or too that, someone shot at me.. All whining drivel from people who appear to want to be playing my little pony in space. Its laughable.. [wacko]

It is easy to demean and belittle, not everyone can have the ability you may have. If this game was designed only to suit one end of the curve, you wouldn't be playing this game because it wouldn't exist. There have been numerous instances of battles with NPC's with capabilities that are way over the top. You can search this forum for one of my posts in regards to a recent encounter I had with a "Boss" NPC. These encounters are similar in stating that destruction happens quite swiftly without the ability to fight back.

What is sad is the lack or respect we have for each other, and there is nothing "laughable" about that.

"The Stars My Destination"
Alfred Bester