No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[phlOgistOn]

Can I stick my hand up and point out that logging on to the server is a form of subscription? This method looks so much like any other subscription based software that's going around (Adobe CC, Microsoft Office365.) Whether or not in name this is in fact signing in to a subscription. Because I can go to any one of your PCs and if Elite Dangerous is installed, I can log on to it with my password and play my commander, right?

Microsoft has done with keys to unlock their software years ago. Hence Office 365 is DRM free - you can download it and install it anywhere, but you have to log in to use it properly. That's subscription, not DRM.

We have a winner \o/

 

[-c-s-]

They never said DRM free for the game, just regarding the disc in the collectors edition box, which was never going to be a separate product, but exactly the same thing as what you can download from the website.



If this was real life, one of us would leave the room at this point, as I would not stand for that kind of behavior.

I can't seem to find where David Braben goes on record directly recanting his pro-DRM, pro-license stance that those articles so clearly convey. Could you provide a reference please?

 

[gazzareth]

OK, I'll try:

DRM is supposed to stop piracy.

It doesn't (it's always circumvented, eventually).

What it does is add points of failure.

DRM doesn't inconvenience pirates (cracked versions don't have DRM).

It inconveniences legitimate users (more points of failure mean more failures).

When someone purchases a product, it doesn't work because of DRM, customer service treats them like a criminal, and they are forced to use a crack to access the product they bought, there's a good chance that they won't bother paying the next time. At least for a product by the same producer (who is therefore also harmed by their decision to infect their product with DRM).

Right, I can see that happened with offline DRM - to be brutally honest I always used to seek out noCD patches. But using online I have never had the same issue...

G

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

OK, I'll try:

DRM is supposed to stop piracy.

It doesn't (it's always circumvented, eventually; often sooner rather than later).

What it does is add points of failure.

DRM doesn't inconvenience pirates (cracked versions don't have DRM).

It inconveniences legitimate users (more points of failure mean more failures).

When someone purchases a product, it doesn't work because of DRM, customer service treats them like a criminal, and they are forced to use a crack to access the product they bought, there's a good chance that they won't bother paying the next time. At least for a product by the same producer (who is therefore also harmed by their decision to infect their product with DRM).

So in this light you are effectively associating a sign on with DRM. Pray tell, dear sir, how that is 'infecting their product' or 'introducing points of failure' seeing there is actually no code included to break?

 

[mbpoblet]

That's subscription, not DRM.

Tomahto, tomeyto.

[video=youtube;zZ3fjQa5Hls]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ3fjQa5Hls[/video]

 

[Vlodec]

Never recover? This will be a minor blip in the history of the game before long. Those who can't stomach a living and changing sandbox will be gone, but that is it.

I can certainly "stomach a living and changing sandbox", but it comes at a price, the nature of which you are undoubtedly familiar with by now, having read it so many times. The price is higher than I prefer to pay, given the choice.

 

[poet1960]

Can I stick my hand up and point out that logging on to the server is a form of subscription? This method looks so much like any other subscription based software that's going around (Adobe CC, Microsoft Office365.) Whether or not in name this is in fact signing in to a subscription. Because I can go to any one of your PCs and if Elite Dangerous is installed, I can log on to it with my password and play my commander, right?

Microsoft has done with keys to unlock their software years ago. Hence Office 365 is DRM free - you can download it and install it anywhere, but you have to log in to use it properly. That's subscription, not DRM.

Okay, you prefer to call a trashman a sanitation engineer. Changing wording does not change the actual desired results.

 

[CMDR Von Abrahart]

Never really understood why people get so hung up on DRM, I can understand the arguments for offline (which in all fairness was something that I was interested in), but DRM, who cares? You've purchased the game, unless it somehow stops you playing the game what does it matter?

Interested in an explanation from someone against it, if there is a sensible one.

G

If it's offline, DRM free, then people can mod it, copy it, pirate it, sell it. You need some sort of rights management or you might as well give the game away for free. Those who want offline are more online than those who want online.

There must be some sort of intellectual property protection with the game. I think a lot of modders wanted to turn it into an unlimited PVP so they can 'Eve' it and create a nasty ganky bulling one upmanship type game.

But that's my opinion.

 

[phlOgistOn]

Tomahto, tomeyto.

I believe that knowing the specific meaning and pronunciation of tech jargon is probably quite important to legal professionals who are trying to claim back money based on those terms... so let's call the DRM discussion off?

 

[mbpoblet]

So in this light you are effectively associating a sign on with DRM. Pray tell, dear sir, how that is 'infecting their product' or 'introducing points of failure' seeing there is actually no code included to break?

Erm... needing to connect to a server adds a whole host of points of failure, from the client itself, to the OS, the network card, cables (or antennae), router(s), infrastructure, ISP(s), repeat backwards towards the server, and back again, several times a second...

Has the game really never told you it couldn't connect to the server, and as a consequence failed to let you play?

 

[Iconoclast]

No offline single player... who cares? I doubt anyone of you would play this game offline, alone in a static universe. It's like buying a car but complaining about the fuel you need.
You need internet for updating the game anyway so what's the problem?

 

[SalsaDMA]

So in this light you are effectively associating a sign on with DRM. Pray tell, dear sir, how that is 'infecting their product' or 'introducing points of failure' seeing there is actually no code included to break?

I'm just gonna state that the DRM of a log-in was the reason I stopped playing SWToR, because I couldn't access my account all of a sudden and the support of the company that had the game wasn't helpfull in getting me back to having access to my account. In the end I had to cancel my subscription by email and threats of legal action if they didn't as them responding to my mails where I asked them to deactivate the subscription where proof of them being aware of my intent.

So yeah, a log-in process certainly 'digitally managed my rights' to use the product and was a breakdown that caused a legitimate paying user to not being able to use the product he had paid for.

Doesn't matter what you want or think. It can happen and have happened. Sticking your head in the sand won't make things different than they are.

 

[SalsaDMA]

No offline single player... who cares? I doubt anyone of you would play this game offline, alone in a static universe. It's like buying a car but complaining about the fuel you need.
You need internet for updating the game anyway so what's the problem?

You mean like nobody played the old elite game, or the old frontier game? Or the X series, privateer, and so on with the slew of singleplayer games...

 

[phila_delphia]

No offline single player... who cares? I doubt anyone of you would play this game offline, alone in a static universe. It's like buying a car but complaining about the fuel you need.
You need internet for updating the game anyway so what's the problem?

I guess you are not compleely up to date. Actually you have to be always on to play the game, as every single action has to be synchronized with the servers.

Oh... An I for one would have played the game alone in a static universe - like good old Elite Years ago.

Best regards

phila

 

[Adept]

That's DRM.

On. The. Disk. It will not require you to have the disk in the drive to play the game. Look it up, it was a thing, and a complete pain to deal with.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Someone once said: "if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck."
View attachment 2133
It quacks, swims and looks more like a subscription than a software protection mechanism, it's likely to be regarded as such no matter how you want to call it. Of course, you can call it a fridge if you want, but for sane discussion I'd stay away from the 'well that's my point of view and you have to stick with it' sort of argument, 'cause that's not discussion that's dictation. Let's sit down and reason this together, shall we?

The inability to access the internet has nothing to do with DRM. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

 

[SalsaDMA]

On. The. Disk. It will not require you to have the disk in the drive to play the game. Look it up, it was a thing, and a complete pain to deal with.

DRM is DRM. It doesn't matter wether you sue DRM scheme X or DRM scheme Y (although some of them are way more malicious than others like rootkits).

If the software on the disk requires you to utilize a DRM scheme to get access to the product, then the software on the disc is not DRM-free.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Someone once said: "if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck."
View attachment 2133
It quacks, swims and looks more like a subscription than a software protection mechanism, it's likely to be regarded as such no matter how you want to call it. Of course, you can call it a fridge if you want, but for sane discussion I'd stay away from the 'well that's my point of view and you have to stick with it' sort of argument, 'cause that's not discussion that's dictation. Let's sit down and reason this together, shall we?

The inability to access the internet has nothing to do with DRM. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

Subscription accounts is just a slightly more lenient form of DRM (lenient in that it usually doesn't install rootkits or anything as draconian as that).

It's still DRM, though. It manages your rights to the digital product. If you don't got a working subscription, you can't use the software.

 

[Iconoclast]

I guess you are not compleely up to date. Actually you have to be always on to play the game, as every single action has to be synchronized with the servers.

Oh... An I for one would have played the game alone in a static universe - like good old Elite Years ago.

Best regards

phila

But what's the point of that? There are enough offline games out there but ED clearly sets its focus on multiplayer. The first Elite game is 30 years old... Back then it was impossible to create a game like this and play it with thousands of players. If it had been possible i bet they would have done that.
Welcome to the 21st century.



I'm sorry if my first post sounds a bit harsh. I'm german and i didn't really know how to express myself so i chose the short way, lol. What i meant to say was that i can't understand why people are complaining about the fact that an internet connection is required when they buy a game online and discuss about it online while playing it online for weeks/months...

 

[Demosthien]

No offline single player... who cares? I doubt anyone of you would play this game offline, alone in a static universe. It's like buying a car but complaining about the fuel you need.
You need internet for updating the game anyway so what's the problem?

Allow me to explain... Again...

...snip...

People were told they could buy a game that had an offline mode.
People paid money for the game.
People have now been told the game will not have an offline mode.
People are unhappy as they wanted offline and paid for it.
People wish to get their money back as they did not get what they paid for.

Irrelevancies in this whole affair include but are not limited to;

The online game is awesome.
You like the game as it is.
People should have known they'd have limitations (whatever they might be) and shouldn't have bought the game.
People should have known there was a risk in pre-ordering.
You haven't asked for a refund.
There are only a minority of people unhappy.
Another game developer did X and that was ok/not ok.
People have the internet so can actually play online.*


Try to show a little empathy... Maybe if you have a think about how you'd feel if they'd dropped the online mode then you'll have an idea.

 

[Maruun]

I have no problem with it, i am always online, i still can play solo. Times i dont have internet...is hrmm 1-2 days a year. So no big deal.

Was it promised..hmm wouldnt call it promise it was something they intended to do and dropped it because of mentioned problems. It was a kickstarter thing, you cant always keep what you intended to do when the project grows.

You dont know what problems will come if a software grows, you can evade those problems by dropping stuff, or force your way through and have alot more problems to deal with that. Atleast they see where the ressources should be spend more then dealing with something painfull.

Is it bad?...no
Is it sad?...YES

The whole outry about something like this is just sad and i can clearly understand why they dont give Alphas/Betas there money back. If they would i would exploit this whole outcry to get my money back and buy it for less again.

That would be a financial disaster for FD the whole game would be killed by something so trivial...no thanks.

This whole thing is a small black spot on a giant white curtain, and people like to rub the spot and makes it artificial bigger then it original was.