No Single Player offline Mode then?

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I hope that playtime is checked if someone cries for a refund due to no offline

I can image someone who's played the game for multiple 10's of hours and is now bored seeing this as an "out" to getting their money back.
 
The worst of the worst are the ones who have been playing the game for months online, but now want their money back because no offline, despicable disgusting people.

Does it bother you when people change the terms of the deal at the last minute, having taken advantage of a misconception all along? Golly. That sounds awful!
 
The premiere event is next week. I wonder what prepared statement FD are going to use to all the gaming journos that will continually ask them about offline play. Or will they just ignore them? That won't look good :(

They'll give the same answer they are giving on here. I'm not sure the journos will be continually asking about it....they will probably ask but I doubt it will be constant harassment.

Is it a big issue anywhere other than these forums?
 
Well from what I have seen FD have taken the smart move and are using Amazon EC2 which means they can basically change their server spec's by a slider in a web interface and that's that, you pay for what you need and can adjust it any time.
They don't have to worry about hardware fail because they have a world class system backing them and top notch admins 24/7 and server load can be sorted out 5 minutes after the decisions made on what they want to do.

Cloud computing rocks.

As someone who's a little familiar with what it takes to set up a complex redundant system on Amazon, it's really not that simple. Cloud computing offers you flexibility, yes, but at a price. The individual servers themselves are not more reliable, and the configurations are much more convoluted - especially if you want to configure multi-zone availability.

As for "That is always the case with online gaming" - that's why I was looking forward to being able to play the offline mode on launch day, or whenever Frontier's servers suffer problems. I've deliberately bought very few EA titles after the Sim City launch mess. From my experiences of playing the beta, Elite Dangerous has got less immersive the more players have been online (stuttering, low frame rates, slow transition from supercruise, etc.)

I've been defending Frontier's choice of P2P networking and forgiving of the glitches my friends and I have seen in multiplayer, but that was whilst I thought there was an offline fallback.
 
Making it a little easier:

I'm not a legal-expert, but I wonder what conclusions can be made by a person really knowledgable. And yes, if you enter the thread with "I'm a lawyer and blah blah" I'm just going to laugh at you.

The only thing you say which no one can disagree with is that you are, self evidently, not a legal expert.
 
By "global" you mean the 900 or so posters in this thread, or the thousands playing the game?

I wish I would find those legendary 1000s that play whenever I go into Open... I don't even meet the pirates who report how they successfully pirate... And I play on hours where I even, by all accounts, should meet people from Australia and New Zeeland.
 
I have no issues with the game being multiplayer only. But as I have bought a full game and not half a game or some kind of subscription to play only how and when Frontier wants, I hope they will give us server and client of the game we bought.
 
I was judging buy the polls on this forum. Personally I could care less. After I read the Post by the Executive producer or whatever he is, I have 0 Hope for this game.
Let me Give You a Statistic that may shock You. We have been waiting for almost 30 yrs for this game. The last game that this guy did (Elite Frontier)was abandoned and it was Very broken. He hasn't done a good game in 30 years. I took a chance and I got burned, again after 30 years. Its not only the Offline play that is the Issue.

I just want my money back and y'all can have this game. I give up.
 
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As someone who's a little familiar with what it takes to set up a complex redundant system on Amazon, it's really not that simple. Cloud computing offers you flexibility, yes, but at a price. The individual servers themselves are not more reliable, and the configurations are much more convoluted - especially if you want to configure multi-zone availability.

As for "That is always the case with online gaming" - that's why I was looking forward to being able to play the offline mode on launch day, or whenever Frontier's servers suffer problems. I've deliberately bought very few EA titles after the Sim City launch mess. From my experiences of playing the beta, Elite Dangerous has got less immersive the more players have been online (stuttering, low frame rates, slow transition from supercruise, etc.)

I've been defending Frontier's choice of P2P networking and forgiving of the glitches my friends and I have seen in multiplayer, but that was whilst I thought there was an offline fallback.

Oh god. Simcity's launch. That was a complete catastrophe, and that had EA throwing a hell of a lot more money at it than Frontier has been throwing at Elite Dangerous's server clusters. If even a fraction of a fraction of the load happens to hit the AWS clusters in the same way that it did Simcity, then what's going to happen is that mission turn-ins are going to fail, and we're going to have an unplayable mess on December the 16th. That's always been the case with every single online launch, there's not been a single instance in the last five years of an online game launching -smoothly- and without hitch or flaw, and if Elite Dangerous is going the path of "online only" even for Singleplayer, you can bet your last cent it will suffer similar... teething troubles...

:D

Get the popcorn at the ready. It's going to be... Dangerous.
 
The only thing you say which no one can disagree with is that you are, self evidently, not a legal expert.

Lawl, well, since you call yourself a lawyer I guess you could do no less than being snide at that post, instead of weighing on what a knowledgable person could conclude. Which sadly underscores the reason why I laugh at people calling themselves lawyer, airline pilots, police-officers, politicians, wealthy guy etc~ online. ^^
 
Basically, the galaxy as you see it in the game is a procedurally generated galaxy melded with a star catalogue with some additional manual tweaking held within a database.

You, as a player have a database entry holding your game state. This will include which systems you've scanned and which objects within those systems that you've scanned. This allows the game to determine if it can show you the details it already holds within its database.

Currently this is all held on computers managed by Frontier, along with trade authentication servers an economics simulator and something to drive events and create the bulletin boards items on stations. Basically, a large database with a number of applications manipulating the data.

In an offline version of this it would have to be simplified so that there was no economics simulator, or at least a simpler one only affecting systems close to the player. Similarly a smaller and simpler event generator would be required. It's quite possible that a smaller number of star systems would have to be within the database too, though probably still a large enough radius that hardly anyone would reach the edge. It's also likely that "special items" and secrets would need to be changed so as to not spoil the on-line game through hackers extracting the data. Other parts of the system would be able to be simplified as there would be no need to run a trade authorisation step or have any of the network code overhead, merely creating NPCs in your "instance" as the client would in the case of you creating a new on-line instance where you were the first person in a location.

Now, a great deal of this code could be extracted from the various parts of the servers and integrated together, but it would be a lot of work. It would also create a new code base which would need to be maintained. If the off-line mode had to deal with later updates, such as planetary landing, then the production overhead could almost double relative to on-line only as each change to the server code would need to be back-ported to the off-line version of the code. You could also have to write database migration code to run on the client, which could be tricky. Oh, and then there's all this extra code to debug.

So, as you can see, Michael wasn't lying when he said that it was a lot of work.

I agree with you. Also the code that you could reuse, in terms of generation and events, now needs to be ported to many operating systems rather than the one that FD choose for online host content. This kind of discussion tallies with the newsletter when it says the compromises needed to make it happen devalued the experience. Which rings truer than DRM or that sort of nonsense. My thought was how many people who wanted an offline experience would of been happy with a 'known worlds only' universe. So basically do everything apart from explore. I think that subset of systems is the only practical offline solution. It would still be a huge amount of work though.
 
I never realised the "it doesn't affect me so its not a problem" argument could actually, ever, get so much acceptance until this thread happened.

I will remember this, and use it in any applicable argument going forward, when [Insert Issue Here] affects [User Here].

Unless it happens to me, it doesn't matter and people should stop moaning. Gotcha.
 
True ! And thankfully Australia is one of those countries who does uphold this right. You cant be an aussie or have familiarity with the ACCC. A month ago they screwed a large supermarket chain for using the word 'fresh' on some of their products, it cost them $12million, the ACCC argued that 'fresh' means something different to Australian consumers, and didnt give a rat's what the company defined 'fresh' as.

Like I said, they are a rabid dog, once out of the cage, they will continue unabated until they get their feed.

But I do get your point :)

I just want to necro this for the following detail.

Here's the ACCC's current case against Valve's Steam -

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-relea...misleading-consumer-guarantee-representations

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has instituted proceedings in the Federal Court of Australia against Valve Corporation (Valve) alleging that Valve made false or misleading representations regarding the application of the consumer guarantees under the Australian Consumer Law (ACL).

Valve is an entertainment software and technology company located in the United States of America. Valve owns and operates an online computer game distribution platform known as ‘Steam’ that has over 65 million users worldwide. Valve sells computer games through Steam to Australian consumers, but does not have a physical presence in Australia.

The ACCC alleges that Valve made false or misleading representations to Australian customers of Steam that:

consumers were not entitled to a refund for any games sold by Valve via Steam in any circumstances;
Valve had excluded, restricted or modified statutory guarantees and/or warranties that goods would be of acceptable quality;
Valve was not under any obligation to repair, replace or provide a refund for a game where the consumer had not contacted and attempted to resolve the problem with the computer game developer; and
the statutory consumer guarantees did not apply to games sold by Valve.

“The Australian Consumer Law applies to any business providing goods or services within Australia. Valve may be an American based company with no physical presence in Australia, but it is carrying on business in Australia by selling to Australian consumers, who are protected by the Australian Consumer Law,” ACCC Chairman Rod Sims said.



Note the refund policy stated on the FD store -

https://store.zaonce.net/cancellations-returns/

Cancellation of an order for a permanent download of a Digital Product

Once a permanent download of a Digital Product has been made available for download by you, the order cannot be cancelled and no refund will be offered.

Each purchase of a permanent download shall be deemed a final, non-exchangeable, non-refundable sale.

This is actually illegal in itself and is exactly what the ACCC are currently taking Valve on for. The short version -

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund

'No refund' signs and expired warranties

It is against the law for businesses to tell you or show signs stating that they do not give refunds under any circumstances, including for gifts and during sales.

Your rights under the consumer guarantees do not have a specific expiry date and can apply even after any warranties you’ve got from a business have expired.

As others have noted earlier, the ACCC does not necessarily need an individual complainant with a specific complaint to take action - merely advertising conditions in breach of Australian consumer law is enough for them to take action if they feel like it.
 
I never realised the "it doesn't affect me so its not a problem" argument could actually, ever, get so much acceptance until this thread happened.

I will remember this, and use it in any applicable argument going forward, when [Insert Issue Here] affects [User Here].

Unless it happens to me, it doesn't matter and people should stop moaning. Gotcha.

Totally agree
 
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