No Single Player offline Mode then?

[CastilloNegro]

Throw myself at the mercy of the missus!
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It all comes down to how each side views the "promise" I think it's clear that FD felt they had to choose between two conflicting "promises" online and offline. FD decided that online was the more important one. For the majority of backers that was the right call. For some it was the wrong call.
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I think the strength of feeling may have taken FD by surprise (as it often takes husbands by surprise how much anniversaries mean to their wives, to the husband it's a minor mistake, to the wife a big blunder). But ultimately, a call had to be made and right now the majority are happy.
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Regarding the refunds, the same differing views apply. As far as FD are concerned the money given to them was given for them to carry out development of ED. They feel they have done that so it is unfair (and bad financially) that they should have to give the money back. Some backers feel they have given the money for a specific feature and so feel that they should have it back as FD have dropped the feature.
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I guess this is a lesson in communicating the risks and uncertainties better and how two parties can misunderstand each other.

I think this is bang on the money, FD seems to have no "right" way out of this dilemma. They had to chose the focus of the investment, and it was their call. I guess what's disappointing is the lack of communication about their difficulties and the way the announcement was made, and they pretty poor communication they've had so far. Why wasn't the DDF made aware of this ? Why wait till a month before public release to say anything ?

An a secondary note, they've justified not making the server back-end available to single players because of its size and complexity. How are they going to pay for this ? Skins and some advertising ? Or are we going to see stations full of GEICO and Coke billboards, and multiple MTs. Have they said anything officially ?

 

[cptzipzap]

By "center", you did consider that the galaxy is a disc rather than a sphere, and not too thick a disc either - right?

the gal is also spehere not only disc

how high is it in system count? what do you guess? 100?

so around 20 jumps the chance is high you visit a never visited system..

 

[1500]

What you linked specifically says that you don't have to connect anywhere, unless you want to update or do multiplayer. (WHEN) That is NOT the current ED.

Yes it is, the game is always multiplayer, even in solo online its a multiplayer game.

 

[poet1960]

Well, for those who like an always on mmo, enjoy your game I guess, for those who wanted offline, I feel for ya. These guys are killing kickstarter faster than anything else probably could.

 

[piotrr]

the gal is also spehere not only disc

Eh, it's a disc. A thick disc, but it's not a globular cluster.

how high is it in system count? what do you guess? 100?

They're not stacked on top of one another, so 100 systems isn't 100 jumps from end to end.

 

[cptzipzap]

Eh, it's a disc. A thick disc, but it's not a globular cluster.


They're not stacked on top of one another, so 100 systems isn't 100 jumps from end to end.

what? did you even check the galaxy map once?

"The disk of the Milky Way galaxy is about 100,000 light years in diameter (one light year is about 9.5 x 1015 meters), but only about 1000 light years thick."

thats 1%

lets assume you need 100 jumps from top to borttom.. i dont know for sure.. need better numbers. but thats pretty much

 

[jamotide]

Yes it is, the game is always multiplayer, even in solo online its a multiplayer game.

Missed the point dude. We were talking about DRM. And this is not DRM free multiplayer anyway. Dont you understand that FAQ sentence? It says you dont have to connect anywhere unless you want updates or multiplayer, but you DONT HAVE TO.

 

[-c-s-]

Incorrect, that is about offline, not DRM. I linked the section on DRM, the current ED follows that.

I think you might be confused...if there is no offline play, Frontier does not get to claim that they are "DRM-free"

Always-on DRM or always-online DRM is a form of digital rights management (DRM) that requires a consumer to remain connected to a server, especially through an internet connection, to use a particular product. The practice is also referred to as persistent online authentication

 

[kwh]

I'll say it again, phrased differently - the fact that if you are playing the game, go away for a two week business trip, then return & load the game to continue playing & the universe is exactly how you left it... that's a feature not a bug!

 

[piotrr]

That's the thing. When I say I want to play the game alone, I don't just mean I don't want to be spawn camped or ganked by some n00b spouting German insults over the intercom.

I mean I want to explore the galaxy. Me. Not me and a few thousand other guys I can't see, taking all the best opportunities before I even get there.

I mean I want to gamble the markets. Me. Not me and a few thousand other guys I can't see tilting the local markets into something unrecognizable to me just because I wasn't playing.

I mean I want to go pick up a cup of tea and being able to - oh I dunno - PAUSE THE GAME in the meanwhile.

Sweden has some of the best internet infrastructure in the world. If I fly Norweigan, I can even "sync the galactic evolution" while soaking up cosmic rays at 10 000 meters. I just don't WANT to. It's not the game I have been looking forward to for the past seventeen years, and that's sad. What's infuriating is how much this matters to me. I wish I could just shrug and say meh, I'll play something else, but what with the whole "I already paid for it" and "They DID say it would happen and now they're saying it won't", it is kind of a thorn in my side that I can't just forget about.

Sorry. flared up again.

 

[Driconis]

Would you believe that I actually hesitated when I read the blurb. But I was like, "Meh. It has offline, there's an active and recent thread, replete with a Frontier-mod, positive that the offline is still in. I can buy this now and go offline upon release, the fed-rep will be awesome for when I do have online-access."

Yes, I actually factored the fed-rep in; when you have little access to online, anything that makes online life easier is a bonus. (It's also why I don't ask for a refund, I was planning to play the game online when able. I also never thought that I could take my offline profile online.)

What irks me bad is the fact that all this research was for naught. I could've just walzed in, press buy blindly and go 'oops' looking for the offline later on, lol!!

I totally understand where you're coming from. When I first heard of the kickstarter, I could barely contain myself. Then I read the entire proposal, saw no offline implementation, shook my head clicked away. I wasn't buying into that. Then I completely forgot about the whole thing until I read somewhere about the beta going online and thats when I first learned that offline was supposedly back on the table. so needless to say, I jumped in as quick as I could whip out my credit card. Thankfully, it only cost me the price of premium Beta. I probably would have pledged much higher in kickstarter.

I do not have connection issues as I have a solid 100Mbps cable connection. I just prefer to play in MY galaxy. I have already experienced issues a lot of folks have recounted here while playing Beta. But gosh I wish I had offline so that I could log back in the next day after finding that sweet trade route only to find it has been bled dry by the invisible masses in my abscence.

 

[Erna Jedermann]

I'll say it again, phrased differently - the fact that if you are playing the game, go away for a two week business trip, then return & load the game to continue playing & the universe is exactly how you left it... that's a feature not a bug!

Maybe they can wrote better, it looks like that they can't read better......english.

 

[cptzipzap]

That's the thing. When I say I want to play the game alone, I don't just mean I don't want to be spawn camped or ganked by some n00b spouting German insults over the intercom.

lol. you can play alone solo.


do you even klnow the game: elite? and what this thread is all about?


you need to make 20 jumps and you are alone. learning some basic maths can show you that! it helps in life too!

 

[piotrr]

what? did you even check the galaxy map once?

As often as I check the back of my hand.

"The disk of the Milky Way galaxy is about 100,000 light years in diameter (one light year is about 9.5 x 1015 meters), but only about 1000 light years thick."

thats 1%

I know. This is where I start to think you're responding to someone else. Something roughly circular and 1% as thick as its diameter is commonly called a disc, or a disc-shaped object, which is what I've said all along.

lets assume you need 100 jumps from top to borttom.. i dont know for sure.. need better numbers. but thats pretty much

If you're alone and could just jump straight between them, yes, but numbers go down significantly, and fast, when you have to multiply (well, or divide) that number with the number of players and the ways long-range gaps between stars push you into certain hyperspace expressroutes that are simply more accessible. If you need a drive upgrade to make a certain jump, fewer people will make it, and no rookies will, but once you get there, it will have been "found" by someone else.

No, I think I will keep wishing for the solo mode actually being solo for realsies.

lol. you can play alone solo.

do you even klnow the game: elite? and what this thread is all about?

you need to make 20 jumps and you are alone. learning some basic maths can show you that! it helps in life too!

Insults will beget insults. I just might have misjumped into Thargoids while you were still misjumping into your own diapers.

 

[Zuikaku]

See JughedJones....that is what I want to say...and the reason while I wrote this gibberish.....to all the White Knights with the VISION.
If you stop to be emphatless and sarcastic I will it too...but where are White Knights there must be black one too.
Stop praising...start thinking...and lets work together.

How can we work together with people who get what hey wanted and are now considering everyone else enemies of the game? God, we have all pledged for the Elite. so, all of us love the Elite. Some prefer to play it online, some offline. And both of these modes were promised.
Let me say it this way. Jake and Bill both supported elite and pledged KS campaign. Jake was excited about multiplayer game. Bill was hoping to play new elite old style - offline.
Jake got the multiplayer.
Bill did not get offline mode. So, Bill feels upset, angry, betrayed, tricked, call it whatever you want.
Jake then attacks Bill for not liking the multiplayer, he makes fun of him, tell him to shut up and get lost cause he will destroy the game. Ofcourse, Jake is not thinking that Bill is his fellow Elite fan who also helped him to get his multiplayer. And that same bill will not be able to enjoy single player mode.

To be honest, I have seen the worst humanity can offer on some other forums. I have considered this as the home of the knights, of the Elite. Surely was not expecting such amount of hate. I was foollishly expecting that even players who prefer multiplayer woul'd understand and even support their fellows who were hoping for offline single player since we were all here together right from the start (or when we learned that Elite and DB needs help).

Obviously I was not aware that chivalry was long dead even here...

 

[kwh]

That's the thing. When I say I want to play the game alone, I don't just mean I don't want to be spawn camped or ganked by some n00b spouting German insults over the intercom.

I mean I want to explore the galaxy. Me. Not me and a few thousand other guys I can't see, taking all the best opportunities before I even get there.

I mean I want to gamble the markets. Me. Not me and a few thousand other guys I can't see tilting the local markets into something unrecognizable to me just because I wasn't playing.

I mean I want to go pick up a cup of tea and being able to - oh I dunno - PAUSE THE GAME in the meanwhile.

Sweden has some of the best internet infrastructure in the world. If I fly Norweigan, I can even "sync the galactic evolution" while soaking up cosmic rays at 10 000 meters. I just don't WANT to. It's not the game I have been looking forward to for the past seventeen years, and that's sad. What's infuriating is how much this matters to me. I wish I could just shrug and say meh, I'll play something else, but what with the whole "I already paid for it" and "They DID say it would happen and now they're saying it won't", it is kind of a thorn in my side that I can't just forget about.

Sorry. flared up again.

Yes. And it seems that those very things that you are identifying as FEATURES of an offline version of ED are the things that DB has identified as the BUGS that justify canning any kind of Offline gameplay...

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

The server doesn't need to know the name of a user to service his or her client's requests, so make online solo play DRM free that way...

It'd be interesting to see FD's response to that suggestion, which would defuse the whole DRM issue at a stroke!

I'm pretty sure that'll never happen, though...

Except of course, it does, it needs to know the commander to validate the transactions and market information, as a means of cheat protection. Thus, there will never be anonymous transaction info.

 

[specialsymbol]

What really sets me up is that I really don't see the need for servers - I mean, if you can play while tethering via phone, what data can that be? Star Systems? Unlikely. Economy data? Changing every second.

So what data will that be that needs to be exchanged with the server.
Copy protection data?

If this is the case, if this is the reason for forcing always on into that game - I'll want my money back. I hate copy protection. No matter how many reasons there are, I paid for that game and I don't want that.

 

[cptzipzap]

As often as I check the back of my hand.


I know. This is where I start to think you're responding to someone else. Something roughly circular and 1% as thick as its diameter is commonly called a disc, or a disc-shaped object, which is what I've said all along.



If you're alone and could just jump straight between them, yes, but numbers go down significantly, and fast, when you have to multiply (well, or divide) that number with the number of players and the ways long-range gaps between stars push you into certain hyperspace expressroutes that are simply more accessible. If you need a drive upgrade to make a certain jump, fewer people will make it, and no rookies will, but once you get there, it will have been "found" by someone else.

No, I think I will keep wishing for the solo mode actually being solo for realsies.

how many are these?

[video=youtube;39LiRf-FL7A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39LiRf-FL7A[/video]

and this is the much thinner area at the pill...

you must understand that you will be alone after just a "few" jumps even if anyone is an explorer...

lets say on average you have 1,5 chance to another system from each system. and thats not even a real average - in the thicker regions with a 20 lyrs ASP you are "conected" to much much more systems 20? 30?


but with a little xperience in math you should realize how impossible it is to be in an explored system after just a few jumps.

 

[DaveS1]

FWIW I am also unhappy with the lack of offline mode, however as I signed up through kickstarter I understand even if I wanted to ask for a refund (and I was really tempted when I first heard the news, especially as I read the newsletter and missed the announcement, it was that prominent...) it would be refused.

Offline was a very important part of why I pledged in the early days - I can't say whether I would still have pledged if it would have been online only from the start, I am not able to review that decision objectively given the exceptionally poor handling of the announcement of the change.

So I guess I have a few choices, and realistically I would be wasting my time asking for a refund - firstly it will be rejected, secondly I am not sure if I actually want a refund or not (I am still unhappy with FD more than anything but that may change over time) and thirdly although there are arguments that I pledged against something that has materially changed so I may have legal recourse to a refund I am not going down that path as it is too much effort, too expensive, a drain on the court system and I don't like to enrich lawyers.

So I think I'll just wait for the game to be released and hope that the online side doesn't interfere with playability and enjoyment. I may as well try to make the best of things given I have no choice and ultimately I am in this to play 21st Century Elite after all. However, because I have tendencies to be quite petty and I really don't like being made to look a fool I am pretty sure I won't buy any DLC until it is give away cheap, if indeed at all, and unfortunately I think I shall stay away from Kickstarter in future.

Some honesty and up-frontedness (it is a word now) from FD would have gone a long way to make this less bad, clearly the decision to abandon offline mode was not just made a few days ago and clearly a conscious and cynical decision has been made to try to gloss it over it and hide the fessing up which is just really, really poor form.

D.