Willful ignorance is my diagnosis -c-s
No Single Player offline Mode then?
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I am speechless but laughing out-loud as well!
Hopefully people will be recording this for youtube entertainment ...
I wouldn't want that to actually happen, but whenever I have been swindled, I am usually a bit too angry to bother with posting in all-caps on a forum, or sending in a snippy refund request. So I'm glad that the big backers with an axe to grind appear to have a bit more decorum than I do...
Granted there would have been less anger and talk of deception, but would it have changed the status of those who only wanted offline/drm free play?
Would the refund policy have been any different? I doubt it. Yes, there would have been some who bought in between then and now and they would not be caught in this mess.
FD would look better from a PR standpoint. How much? Still taking away a major piece for some people.
But I don't know how this would have changed the situation for the KS backers.
I think we may have been right back at this same point with many unhappy about the refund policy.
I am not one of those and can not speak for them.
After going back and forth on posts in this forum, at the very least, I think FD should refund the cost of the final game.
Anyway i'm leaving this thread, I can't stomach any more of the bile, sensationalism and downright paranoia that has overtaken it. My sympathy to the handful of you who are genuinely affected by this, seriously, I can understand your disappointment.
I hope you manage to get your case across to Frontier, as difficult as that may be being heard over the din being created by those on both sides of the offline fence, who are here simply to cause trouble.
If you are going to the Premier i'll see you there, please behave, you may have a beef with Frontier but don't spoil an event that many of us are truly (and sadly) excited to be attending.
In my absence compile a list of those with a genuine issue who are unable to get refunds and set up a paypal account for it, i'll put some in, i'm sure others will too, hell given the current trend around here you may get a pizza too
Take care folks, i'm sorry i won't get the opportunity to fly with many of you online, it truly is my loss.
Yes, I believe I shall join you in leaving this thread. There is nothing more to be said here, and I've waffled on far far too much.
Just makes me sad, and perhaps the venting is good for my soul as a cleansing exercise. But Notepad.exe is just as good for that, so...
Take care all, and enjoy your game. If you're going to the launch party, I'll hopefully see you there. I'll be the guy trying to keep a 9 year old girl from spontaneously singing loudly at the top her lungs whilst there's a keynote speech going on by somebody "important".
Ok you got me, I am stupid. I will have to think a little harder about what I type before I hit the post button. I should have stated that it wasn't an actual quote.
It's not about projecting malice, anyway I'm sure there's no malice in business usually (projection isn't the point anyway, we're all projecting something with every thought, feeling, and action, if we weren't then I can't imagine what life would be like) it might be about deceit though.
Even if the game is gonna be great. The offline mode will make it even better.
Look at all the games where the user generated content is enhancing the game ten fold.
Offline mode was an original promise that lured many people into the game and not it's gone.... so of course people are pi...d of.
Look at all the games where the user generated content is enhancing the game ten fold.
Offline mode was an original promise that lured many people into the game and not it's gone.... so of course people are pi...d of.
Offline mode had very little to do with my the decision to fund the game (as do a lot of people) So Your argument about that's the WHOLE reason we're all here... fails. I don't care if they promised purple space monkeys. If there are no space monkeys, whoop dee doo. So your mad, great. We're not. Deal with it.
Your clearly just looking for a reason to be mad. I'm tired of this non sense. Enjoy your tantrum.
bye
It is the game we have invested our cash, time and dreams in. They made it quite different from the one being advertised.
And they are not giving refunds to most of the people.
How woul'd you react in our place? Just a game, delt with it and walk away? I hardly doubt
Don't worry, you'll get your game you have paid for. We won't. That is a problem.
I'm pretty sure money is something you are supposed to be mortally affected buy.
If you disagree, can I have yours?
The more I read this thread the more it seems to me that people that backed the game early, and paid for the privilege of taking part in the beta, are now looking for a way to shortchange Frontier developments.
You get a full refund now, then in three weeks, you buy the game again. You get back the difference between your original pledge and the final cost of the game but you still got to be a part of the beta.
I would love to see how many of the absolutely, cannot play the game online in ANY way, don't have internet connection, are worried about the servers shutting down, want a non-evolving galaxy, don't really understand that solo mode STILL means they will never see another player people would still get a refund if they were forbidden from ever buying the game again.
You get a full refund now, then in three weeks, you buy the game again. You get back the difference between your original pledge and the final cost of the game but you still got to be a part of the beta.
I would love to see how many of the absolutely, cannot play the game online in ANY way, don't have internet connection, are worried about the servers shutting down, want a non-evolving galaxy, don't really understand that solo mode STILL means they will never see another player people would still get a refund if they were forbidden from ever buying the game again.
edit for spelling: damned auto-correct...
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Apologies for wall of text - reply ended up bigger than I intended - seems I had more to get off my chest about E D than I realised...
The most telling part of this post Juniper is your sig at the bottom "£1000 wasted on an online-only DRM filled MMO with microtransactions. You live and learn".
My learn from this is I'll never back another kickstarter as long as I live. SC changed the wording from the original backer info, and now E D has strayed even further away from it's already warped backer info after they "bent" the wording on released content - it was originally that a certain level of backing got everything free for life, then FDev changed it to "everything free for life... except this.. (ship skins) and that and this too - we'll charge you for those." It's animal farm (the book not the film) all over again.
I cannot imagine how gutted you and all the others who paid large sums of money to back this game only to have the very aspect and reason you paid such money to ensure it's success taken away. If I were you I would contact FDev and remind them of all the posts you made that included statements on how you were going to be strictly offline only, and tell them you expect a refund - no about "it's FDev's discretion to pay out or not". Those previous posts are dated obviously and give precendent that you expected to play E D offline only since the day you first backed. That's about all you'll need to hang FDev out to dry - even in court, they won't have a leg to stand on.
Frankly I'm astonished FDEV are saying "tell us why you are so committed to having offline mode..." I was under the assumption that ALL POSTS WERE READ BY A FDEV EMPLOYEE? FDev seem to have either a very short or very selective memory - I certainly recall the bile and vitriol that was slung by both online and offline sides in regard to the forced PVP on of online mode. It was made EXTREMELY CLEAR in a manner that left no doubt at all that a great many players will play E D in offline mode ONLY for the very reason of not having to deal with online ats who decide to 'splode your ship for sh8ts and giggles. If all of those posts were not reason enough to convince FDev that offline mode was considered an absolute prerequisite for playing the game at all, then no amount of explanation now will do it. Sounds like they just want to be seen to be the "we're nice guys honest, we didn't intend to rip you off" when the reality is that they have been asleep at the wheel regarding implementing player requirements, the people who made this happen. FDev had the ideas and DB had a lot of things already in the works apparently but without US, the kickstarter backers Elite IV would still be a pipe dream.
Elite Dangerous is OURS. We paid for it. The legal jargon can go to hell, I like many others didn't just decide to give FDev money "to go make something like Elite IV"; we gave them money to make Elite Dangerous as laid out in the text on the kickstarter. Not being able to deliver offline mode isn't the same as not being able to fulfill a stretch goal (which they seem to have no trouble with doing); it's a breach of the fundamental core of the outline proposal we paid for.
If every one of those not happy with this change did indeed demand and get a refund, it would cost FDev dearly in money and terrible media backlash once word got out on social media that a large percentage of backers have demanded a refund after a developer of a worldwide profiled kickstarter project changed the wording of what was going to be delivered and dropped what many would regard as fully ONE HALF of the project content.
I can see this becoming a sh*tstorm even if FDev can't. "Hoisted by their own petard" is another phrase that comes to mind.
I've also started to wonder how many DDF ideas and such have made the grade, or was all that lip service just to make higher level backers feel "involved" in a process that in reality was going to be implemented or not regardless of what the backers who paid extra to be on the DDF said.
Personally even though I am "one of the nine" - a proven elite badge holder from the BBC B days, a 3 time elite status player of both the archimedes and Amiga versions too, (Still working on Frontier
) plus I've used the name Rafe Zetter in real life as an alias (legally) some 25 years now and I SERIOUSLY considered moving across the country to live in Cambridge and apply for one of the available positions at FDev, all of which therefore probably makes me one of the biggest Elite fanboi's on earth - I'm seriously considering petitioning for a refund of my £100. ( I said fanboi - NOT Rich Fanboi). Although I did drop £1500 on a new PC, PLUS another £850 on a 50inch 3DTV monitor solely to play E D in 3d which turned out to be a waste of money (more on that below) and £150 on a Saitek warthog. So all in all £2,500 just for ONE GAME - THIS GAME; to play it in all it's glory... or so I thought. (and on that note people like "thereisonlyone" have spent hundreds of pounds and weeks of their free time making simpits to play E D. I have no idea if he's seen this post, but I hope to deus he and his young son are OK with not being able to play offline.For me no offline mode isn't a deal breaker, BUT it will put a serious dent on my play style as now every ship could be an at human - even in corporate space, every journey a possible disaster; and I'll have to act accordingly - which could lead to some very stressful game time - and I don't play games to stress - if I did I'd go back to Eve Online with a MUCH livelier universe and live in lowsec again... f'in nightmare. NO. THANK. YOU.
However there are several other reasons why frankly I'm more than disappointed in E D:
E D so far has not floated my boat (there's another thread about release concerns and I have to say I agree with a great many of the points made there), IMHO there are too many things that have been introduced into the game that should not have even got past the yes/no ideas stage like interdictions (see below) and others that should have been altered by now to be more player friendly regardless of what FDev's vision was (supercruise and elements of the cockpit UI).
To my mind an interdiction at supercruise speeds is as stupid as trying to hijack a plane by boarding it while already in flight - piracy was meant to be slim pickin's; more miss than hit - not an "all you can eat buffet, everything is on the menu". Piracy was meant to take effort and co-ordination, an overheard remark in a bar about a cargo and a destination; then that info sold on the black market, could be legit - could be a trap, who knows? What we have now is you can just sit in space and hook onto the next poor sap that just flew past you while you were parked up taking a crap. That's not piracy - that's your lasers + fish and a barrel. Sure the fish shoot back but that's always been part of piracy - what I'm referring to is the sheer amount of available targets - literally EVERYONE, everywhere, instead of having to pick your time and place carefully.
I've had full access since alpha yet have clocked up just 1381 minutes worth of play (23 hours) and the majority of that was p8ssing about - I have just 28 kills to my name and traded about 15k credits), you might find this hard to believe but I've never even left the first 8 star systems we got at the beginning - I'm just not feeling this version of Elite the way I felt the others, I think Frontier Elite II has more going for it than this, graphics be damned. While I went on about the 3d mode (the 3d effect really does look pretty darn good) even that gets old as the resolution is low, text is blurry and forget trying to shoot something down when the crosshairs don't properly line up as the 3d is still "experimental" (read unusable in combat) making play for anything other than "trucking in space" in 3d a non starter.
All in all - expected more, and now I'm being offered even less than what I thought I signed up for. Dec 12th had better be a bloody revelation of orgasmic proportions or so help me I'm getting my money back under the "didn't get what I paid for" clause.
Sorry again for wall of text - well done getting here.
Amazing how easy it is, to dismiss the misfortune of others, isn't it?
So they don't want to do offline mode?
This smacks so much of DRM to me. Nothing else.
Refunding draws ever nearer. I am really not sure right now, E looks like a great game, this is why I preordered. But this is simply annoying.
After all, a game is for me something I have fun with.
Playing the game, doorbell rings. Hit the pause, open the door, take package, go back to computer, unpause and have fun.
Playing the game, doorbell rings. No offline mode, no pause, ignore doorbell, package is taken to the next post office where I need to wait in line for one hour to retrieve it the next day. Not fun.
Buying cheap or rare wares, going on a trip. Doorbell rings, the neighbour you fancy has prepared some hot coffee. Reject hot coffee? No fun. Lose cargo? No fun. No offline mode simply sucks.
Let's face it: always on is simply no fun. It is fun when you decide to play with friends. But in this case your choices and actions are different from those you'd make in a offline game. Taking away offline takes away that experience, which I value more than playing with strangers and even playing with friends.
This smacks so much of DRM to me. Nothing else.
Refunding draws ever nearer. I am really not sure right now, E
looks like a great game, this is why I preordered. But this is simply annoying.After all, a game is for me something I have fun with.
Playing the game, doorbell rings. Hit the pause, open the door, take package, go back to computer, unpause and have fun.
Playing the game, doorbell rings. No offline mode, no pause, ignore doorbell, package is taken to the next post office where I need to wait in line for one hour to retrieve it the next day. Not fun.
Buying cheap or rare wares, going on a trip. Doorbell rings, the neighbour you fancy has prepared some hot coffee. Reject hot coffee? No fun. Lose cargo? No fun. No offline mode simply sucks.
Let's face it: always on is simply no fun. It is fun when you decide to play with friends. But in this case your choices and actions are different from those you'd make in a offline game. Taking away offline takes away that experience, which I value more than playing with strangers and even playing with friends.
I love the self-centered approach people take... no surprise this planet is going to hell in a hand basket. At the end of the day I would have supported your selfish ___ if FD decided that "THE VISION" doesn't involve online playing capability. WHY YOU ASK ? Because if was promised... Think on it for bit before you decide to enlighten us with your maturity!!!
I was there every day and for me the push came with the Mac edition.....Thousands from SC then came to ED..... I Remember offline and Stygron jumping with joy but for me the Mac version saved the day.
If the pitch was say offline till the games funded he could have announced no offline 6 months after the kickstarter and had it done and dusted long ago.
The only reason not to tell you is if your still trying and intending to have offline mode......
But a final decision has to be made before the official release ( or you would be in trouble ) so bad timing....Stupid leaving till the last minute ....but no foul play I don't think ...
I will admit that I played a little bit of online to see what it was like. It took about 3 sessions to realize online was DayZ in Space and not anything I wanted to have anything to do with. All I wanted was a 2014 version of the game I played when I was 12 which did not include a bunch of ats flying around with me.
Then I spent some time on the forums and almost half the complaints about the game were about how the online servers kept lagging and causing people to crash into stations and blow up which only made me want to only play offline even more...I don't want to waste a lot of time doing things only to be killed when their server in Ireland gets DDoSd (good luck with that now btw, you couldn't have fed the trolls a more perfect appetizer...)
Then I spent some time on the forums and almost half the complaints about the game were about how the online servers kept lagging and causing people to crash into stations and blow up which only made me want to only play offline even more...I don't want to waste a lot of time doing things only to be killed when their server in Ireland gets DDoSd (good luck with that now btw, you couldn't have fed the trolls a more perfect appetizer...)
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The wise decision would have been to ask the customers if what they can deliver is to THEIRS (the customers) satisfaction, don't you think?
I've seen lots of people posting they would be totally happy with a simple non-dynamic galaxy and a set of predefined random misions, just like the original Elite games.
This desaster is wht you get when you completely rule out the wishes of the customers. David said something along the line "it seemed that people want offline mode as a precaution against griefing etc." As I read in this thread more than once he is wrong. A lot of people simply wanted a chance to NOT have a dynamic galaxy that changes constantly while you need to go work for your money, or need to care about real life. Most backers and beta supporters are actually old Elite fans and can not play every day. Sometimes weekend to weekend or less.
A galaxy and its allegiances, markets and state of exploration shifting over the five days you can't play is what people would like to omit. They would like to hit a pause key from time to time and not end up with "stolen cargo" because the mission timed out while they took care of their child or helped their mate or whatever is more important then having a MMOG dictate your life.
I myself decided to try it anyway, but I can absolutely understand people who feel cheated and want to persue legal actions.
And consider the problems this may cause, if just half the 40,000 offliners go to a court, and maybe half of them win the case, worst case it would mean expenses for lawyers etc. for 10,000 law suites ? Ouch!
Some of us here have been reading and posting about Elite 4 on alt.fan.elite for the past 15+ years.
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