NO to "third party tools" for ED

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Suddenly I realized people should be notified that I'm much better than everyone else. I'm presenting as proof some random arbitrary personal preference of mine that has no bearing whatsoever on anyone else's gameplay. Even though I'll do my best to dress it up as a "serious issue", it's painfully clear that I'm just being fussy about irrelevant and small stuff in a bid for attention.

What you people must understand is that while my claim might not address any real concern, it does give me a chance to belittle strangers AND aggrandize myself at no personal cost. It doesn't contribute to make anything better, but it does fill me with a satisfying sense of superiority; therefore, it's obviously important - it is MY OPINION, after all.

So you fellows should take heed. This is no laughing matter. If you disagree, it's just because you obviously don't have any sense of true morality.
 
Suddenly I realized people should be notified that I'm much better than everyone else. I'm presenting as proof some random arbitrary personal preference of mine that has no bearing whatsoever on anyone else's gameplay. Even though I'll do my best to dress it up as a "serious issue", it's painfully clear that I'm just being fussy about irrelevant and small stuff in a bid for attention.

What you people must understand is that while my claim might not address any real concern, it does give me a chance to belittle strangers AND aggrandize myself at no personal cost. It doesn't contribute to make anything better, but it does fill me with a satisfying sense of superiority; therefore, it's obviously important - it is MY OPINION, after all.

So you fellows should take heed. This is no laughing matter. If you disagree, it's just because you obviously don't have any sense of true morality.

Have some rep and a free hug.
 
I suddenly realized that no one talks about elephant in a room and that is "third party tools" used by players for every game they play - "to maximize gains".

I just wanted to say that in my opinion that this is what in long term destroys gaming as enjoyable pass time and moves into obsession driven sugar rush madness. It's addictive, because tools and min/max attitude enables you win. In the end, all you wanna do is win, which leads to grind. Grind leads to disappointment because at some point you figure out that all you do is grind.

I realize that everyone plays game they want to play and it is not for me to educate how to do it. I just wanted to say that there are people not using tools. They are certainly read things, and hear tips and notes. However it mostly goes out in ad hoc fashion.

So say NO to third party tools. Stick with your guns and instinct. Ask if stuck and read tips from other forumians. But don't engage in mass exploitation of shared information. If you want to find that outfit that works for you - find it. Don't obsess with configurations given you by third party sites.

Edit: my issues are mostly with trading and outfitting info sharing tools (best outfit or best trade route). Outfitting tools that allows you to build configuration and figure out numbers, or commander log, which just logs all your actions, etc. is something I dig it.

It seems to me you want to dictate how other people play the game? I mean, it's perfectly fine that YOU don't want to use 3rd party tools, because YOU feel it becomes a grind. But from your post I get the feeling that you assume that players using 3rd party tools will end up in a grind they come to hate? I have to disagree. Some people LOVES to min/max and excel to the very top. So if someone wants to use 3rd party tools, by all means let them. If they don't like it or feel it becomes a boring grind, surely they'll just stop and play the game in a way the like? I don't really see the problem of 3rd party tools; people will use them if they like, and don't use them if they don't like.
 
Last edited:
Technically speaking - I'm speaking just technically here, you understand - from a technical point of view...

Anyone who uses anything not incorporated into the game, to gain any kind of advantage, is technically a cheat.

Anyone who uses actual, proper cheat mods is obviously a cheat.

Anyone who uses third-party controllers such as a HOTAS or Oculus Rift, potentially gaining advantages over other players, regardless of its endorsement by FD, is technically a cheat.

Anyone who uses tools such as Thrudd or the ED Shipyard or Voice Attack is technically a cheat, albeit a softer kind of cheat.

Anyone who uses a spreadsheet or a pencil and paper is technically a cheat.

FD, when they made a conscious decision to impose an artificial scarcity of trade-data, thereby creating unnatural and inorganic gameplay mechanics - and incidentally kicking out the natural, diegetic rules of advertising and forcing the narrative plausibility of one part of the game into utter retreat - blatantly cheated like a bunch of baskets.

Anyone who uses this forum, in any way at all, is technically a cheat.

Even the OP and all his supporters, all of whom stand to gain financially from a reduction in the number of well-informed competitors in-game, are technically cheating - and arguably no-one capable of reading this post can possibly have clean hands. We're all going to hell, lads - wahey!

... technically speaking. :D
 
Last edited:
The main issue is specifically trading and outfitting I/F feel like alpha state placeholder for an hopefully decent future real implementation.
 
Last edited:
On your bike "Fluffy" (where'd that rank spring from?! lol)

The outfitting tools such as http://www.edshipyard.com/ and http://coriolis.io/ are wonderful additions to the game allowing us to plan builds and demonstrate to newer players what can and can't work. It doesn't hurt anyone that doesn't use them and they're extremely valuable to those that do.

Trade route tools I'm a little more on the fence about. Personally I'd prefer to log only my own routes so they were available to me, rather than crowdsourced, but again if I'm at my wits end searching through the map manually to find a Black Market then Thrudds has also proved to be useful at times.
 
That's like, your opinion, man.

It's not like you can't use outside sources in real life to help you with things right? (Wikipedia, stock market sites, reviews of products you would like to buy)
 
That's like, your opinion, man.

It's not like you can't use outside sources in real life to help you with things right? (Wikipedia, stock market sites, reviews of products you would like to buy)
No but that's cheating.
So all stock brokers cheat; they must use do it all in their heads. :p
 
Suddenly I realized people should be notified that I'm much better than everyone else. I'm presenting as proof some random arbitrary personal preference of mine that has no bearing whatsoever on anyone else's gameplay. Even though I'll do my best to dress it up as a "serious issue", it's painfully clear that I'm just being fussy about irrelevant and small stuff in a bid for attention.

What you people must understand is that while my claim might not address any real concern, it does give me a chance to belittle strangers AND aggrandize myself at no personal cost. It doesn't contribute to make anything better, but it does fill me with a satisfying sense of superiority; therefore, it's obviously important - it is MY OPINION, after all.

So you fellows should take heed. This is no laughing matter. If you disagree, it's just because you obviously don't have any sense of true morality.

Saved me a load of typing, and is no doubt sharper than my own similar response would have been.
 
You cared enough for it to cause you to type out and post all that guff that I snipped.

Why not just go the whole hog and use Cheat Engine?

You seem to be labouring under a misapprehension; I could not care less about your opinion regarding what I have 'achieved' in this game, I suspect that bears true for most people. I do care more (although only very slightly) about this topic and felt it worth the effort to point out that the points you and Pecisk make are terrible.

Trying to get a raise out of me through insults simply shows that you are not able to formulate a coherent argument, as does your absurd question regarding Cheat Engine. Trying to claim an equivalence between information sharing, or a tool which allows you to design a loadout for a ship, and a hack which enables players to give themselves unbreakable shields and the like is plain facile.
 
You cannot stop people from creating and sharing personal databases to store and organize the massive amount of data that ED has to offer. It is inevitable.
 
You cannot stop people from creating and sharing personal databases to store and organize the massive amount of data that ED has to offer. It is inevitable.

Indeed, and this thread amounts to nothing more than yet another attempt by certain people to claim that anybody voicing any dissatisfaction with the game is 'doing it wrong'.
 
Input methods are totally unrelated to the point. HOTAS is supported directly by the game. Same with head tracking and VR. Personal logs of a pilot's exploits, whether electronic or pen/paper, are just an aide memoire. They aren't providing the user with any information that his/her in-game character would not have access to in the ED galaxy. None of that is gaining an unfair advantage IMO. Crowdsourced information, on the other hand, is, so it's cheating. Talking about real-world examples is missing the point. ED is a game, presenting a fictional setting. The characters reside within it's confines. You either play within the limitations and the fiction that the game consists of, or you don't, and utilise anything you can to gain an upper hand. From that POV, using stuff that shouldn't be available to your character is essentially cheating - be it via a telepathic link to thousands of other people via data/comms tools that aren't provided directly by the game, or via magic unkillable hull/shields, fuel that never runs out, or weapons with multiplied damage.
 
just no!
i use a ton of third party apps, non of them are using any crowdsourced information or are giving me any other kind of info that i would not have in game or anything else that can give me an upperhand.
most importantly are my streaming apps, i would not be able to stream to twitch and youtube whit out them.
my second dearest is my log book whit captains log, before i got that i used pen and paper to write everything down and my desk was a mess, my cat also enjoyed tearing up my notes.
my cockpit jukebox/radio app is another dear friend.
the only app i got that could be debated to give an advantage would be my in-game web browser, but im not using that to visit the crowdsourced sites, only the frontier forum sometimes, in fact im using it to write this post atm.
 
Last edited:
Input methods are totally unrelated to the point. HOTAS is supported directly by the game. Same with head tracking and VR. Personal logs of a pilot's exploits, whether electronic or pen/paper, are just an aide memoire. They aren't providing the user with any information that his/her in-game character would not have access to in the ED galaxy. None of that is gaining an unfair advantage IMO. Crowdsourced information, on the other hand, is, so it's cheating.

The information was gathered by in-game characters, using the tools available in-game, and it is freely available to any player who are willing to waste his leisure time reinventing the wheel over and over.

Besides, by your own definition, if you ever read a guide that's not in-game (or written/created by FD), then you are a cheater as well.

That interesting little nugget of information that was discovered and shared by someone else in the forums? Yep, that's cheating too. Shame on you.

...How ludicrous is that notion?

Talking about real-world examples is missing the point. ED is a game, presenting a fictional setting.

The way I see it, talking about real-world examples puts this "issue" in a more clear perspective, one that is really hard for you to refute, that's all.

And so what that it's a fictional setting? Our characters are still human. Their motivations are pretty much the same they were throughout history.

Profit. War. Power. Knowledge. Beer.

Building upon collective effort is what made humanity possible in the first place. Claiming that people should only use information they gathered themselves goes against human nature in every conceivable level. The fact that our characters live in a fictional setting doesn't mean they should learn exclusively through first-hand experimentation.

* I can't handle a soldering iron, yet here I am, using a box of electronic circuitry to tell you why I think you're wrong.

* Mother gaia gave me plenty of manly body hair, yet I still cover my shame with clothing made in a country I couldn't even point in a map, by people I will never meet in my lifetime.

* If I ever become sick, I will take medicine that I would never be able to make myself, just so I don't die of diarrhea.

And so does you.

Could you please provide a single good reason why our human characters should behave so differently than our human selves?

The characters reside within it's confines. You either play within the limitations and the fiction that the game consists of, or you don't, and utilise anything you can to gain an upper hand. From that POV, using stuff that shouldn't be available to your character is essentially cheating - be it via a telepathic link to thousands of other people via data/comms tools that aren't provided directly by the game, or via magic unkillable hull/shields, fuel that never runs out, or weapons with multiplied damage.

That's a very unique view of the matter, and it's really shallow. If it had any legs to stand on, you woudn't be grasping at straws in order to stablish a flimsy link with real cheats.

Putting shared trading data in the same bag as a hacking tool made with the explicit goal of circumventing the game mechanisms is a really weak argument.

Saying they are the same thing doesn't make it so, and an opinion devoid of compelling arguments is just that: a matter of personal preference.

In the scope of a debate, they don't carry more weight than the average bag of hot air.

But all that is beside the point, really.

If there's one insight I can offer you, it's this:

Your approval or respect means nothing, nada, ZERO for anyone outside your immediate circle of relations.

People don't play games to placate the faulty reasoning of self-righteous strangers. They play games for fun.

And while you are pointing fingers at other people and making baseless accusations, they are pointing their fingers at you and laughing theirs socks off.

So let's not blow it out of proportion, aye?

How about we just have fun with the game and let other people alone, eh?
 
Last edited:
Well i decided to use the trading tools out there and I don't regret it. As far as I'm concerned they can transmit galnet news directly to my ship but can't tell me current commodity prices even if that data only be accessible when docked. Im not looking for a 300ly jump but just a small trade route to move me along in my sidey.

Work hard during the day and don't have the brain capacity to remember all prices ever at every station so I don't try.

Elitetrading tool Im finding is getting out of date as Im finding the data to be inaccurate. But i accept that as supply and demand dictate prices. You get a type 9 dropping off the same cargo I maybe break even or make a small loss. To me this is like real life make a choice burn fuel to another station or system, sell and take the hit or lug it around for a bit whilst playing postman pat for CEO's and their contracts.

I haven't tried the rest but have found myself lately thinking of how much better my experience would be with a few pointers like a log of where I've been and what I've seen. Missed opportunity from fd but one which frees up the time for devs to concentrate on the mamouth updates they posted yesterday.

Cmdr jam out.
 
Good day everyone. Let me preface my meandering thoughts with my belief that everyone should play the game the way they see fit. So, on to my points:
1) For those opposed to third party tools, look at it this way; the traders who use such tools will have more lucrative cargo, making them a more lucrative target for pirates, and the pirates, being more "productive," will, in turn, be more lucrative targets for bounty hunters! Everybody wins!
2) Imagine that the when you're looking at that spreadsheet (physical or digital) or 3rd party app, that you're actually looking down at that completely blank and useless screen situated between your legs in the game!
 
Input methods are totally unrelated to the point. HOTAS is supported directly by the game. Same with head tracking and VR. Personal logs of a pilot's exploits, whether electronic or pen/paper, are just an aide memoire. They aren't providing the user with any information that his/her in-game character would not have access to in the ED galaxy. None of that is gaining an unfair advantage IMO. Crowdsourced information, on the other hand, is, so it's cheating. Talking about real-world examples is missing the point. ED is a game, presenting a fictional setting. The characters reside within it's confines. You either play within the limitations and the fiction that the game consists of, or you don't, and utilise anything you can to gain an upper hand. From that POV, using stuff that shouldn't be available to your character is essentially cheating - be it via a telepathic link to thousands of other people via data/comms tools that aren't provided directly by the game, or via magic unkillable hull/shields, fuel that never runs out, or weapons with multiplied damage.

So, pen and paper is cheating. That's a harsh world you live in, glad I don't have to!
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom