Can't rep you twice in a row so feel virtually repped.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, as i am mine, and as i have said before, i have not come to my conclusion based purely on this 1 thing, it is just another example of which there are many imo that FD are mostly interested in the MP side of the game.... obviously i respect your right to disagree. I will also fully accept i was wrong when the features which have been made MP only which were never meant to be MP only get added.
Dont get me wrong, I am not going all in here and saying That90skid was right, but I am surprised he is not here gloating that this is proof that his prediction is coming true.
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And here we go, the thin edge of the wedge.
I disagree about BgS being open-only.
Powerplay is an opt-in that's based around player conflict, so Open-only does make sense here. I have some reservations on how Frontier will counter router shenanigans, but I trust they have something in mind.
BgS on the other hand affects everybody as it represents the impact of player actions on a living universe - there is no option to participate or not - every trade made, every bounty cashed, every fine issued all contribute. Although it can and is used as a conflict driver, that's not the primary purpose of the BgS. And that's where the case differs from Powerplay.
Powerplay is an opt-in that's based around player conflict, so Open-only does make sense here. I have some reservations on how Frontier will counter router shenanigans, but I trust they have something in mind.
BgS on the other hand affects everybody as it represents the impact of player actions on a living universe - there is no option to participate or not - every trade made, every bounty cashed, every fine issued all contribute. Although it can and is used as a conflict driver, that's not the primary purpose of the BgS. And that's where the case differs from Powerplay.
I'd be fine with combat zones being open only. That's the one part of the BGS where it make sense.
There is that as well. I think FDev have made a big boo boo myself. What game do they want to make, a PvE/PwPvE game or a PvP game. You really can't have both in the same game, it generally does not work and it makes nobody happy.
Personally I think it should have been PvE/PwPvE and non confrontational PvP with the BGS all the way. If they wanted to add a PvP mode, then it should have been a seperate game.
Call it Elite Dangerous:Battlegrounds and have the ships that they have in the main game or some standard ones for people that don't play the main game useable in battles against one another fighting over resources and areas. No supercruise or hyperjumps, just jump into battles whenever you want to. A bit like a space ship version of planetside.
Absolutely agree, except I think BGS influence from solo and PG should be removed as well. Being able to launch a BGS assault from the comfort and safety of a private group needs to end.
but the slippery slope is a fallacy I keep being told... :/
They tried that
That was just a basic PvP shooter with zero depth and limited ships. Maybe look at the rest of my post.
The BGS is all about non-confrontational PvP. The best way to fight an aggressor in the BGS is by doing BGS work, not hunting them down and shooting them when they are doing nothing illegal and getting yourself a bounty and notoriety.
The BGS does not work like that. Powerplay does. Leave the BGS alone, it's there for everyone.
While I fully support open only for PP, I fully oppose making anything else open only. Especially not BGS play.
Let's be real here : PP is a mess and is half dead. PvP is a mess and a lot of it devolved into gank squads, partly due to the lack of legitimate and meaningfull alley for PvP.
Seems open only PP is an easy win-win for low risk for FD in that regard. It make sense, and it's better to have a good open-only feature than to have an open/solo/group broken mess of a feature that we got now.
Also, "ghostwalk" undermining and other such solo/group shenanigans made sure that open/solo/group where never equals. Solo group is just the "Easy" mode wrt PP.
It seems to me that FD finally got the guts to bite the bullet and try to make PP work and provide a legitimate PvP alley. Kudos to them.
BTW : standalone PvP was tried (and failed) with CQC, mostly because in the ED context CQC is meaningless and detached. If a CQC style feature was implemented ingame with good context and
conséquences, I wager it would work and gain traction.
Now, they better stay away from BGS open only ideas.
Let's be real here : PP is a mess and is half dead. PvP is a mess and a lot of it devolved into gank squads, partly due to the lack of legitimate and meaningfull alley for PvP.
Seems open only PP is an easy win-win for low risk for FD in that regard. It make sense, and it's better to have a good open-only feature than to have an open/solo/group broken mess of a feature that we got now.
Also, "ghostwalk" undermining and other such solo/group shenanigans made sure that open/solo/group where never equals. Solo group is just the "Easy" mode wrt PP.
It seems to me that FD finally got the guts to bite the bullet and try to make PP work and provide a legitimate PvP alley. Kudos to them.
BTW : standalone PvP was tried (and failed) with CQC, mostly because in the ED context CQC is meaningless and detached. If a CQC style feature was implemented ingame with good context and
conséquences, I wager it would work and gain traction.
Now, they better stay away from BGS open only ideas.
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Remember, this is Powerplay, not BGS, being changed. Powerplay is essentially a player driven simulacra of the BGS. It's seperate for a reason. Putting constraints like that on the BGS itself is potentially a huge no-no.
Powerplay, though? A player driven mechanic, built for players, with only players able to affect outcomes? Yeah that needed change. Figure out a sane place to have PP modules available as an alternative, so it's not stranding people, and also solves the endless module tourism? all good.
Leave BGS where it is; that's a whole other mess for a whole other day and they are not an interchangeable discussion.
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Goose4291
Banned
Im just going to point out NPCs actions dont impact on the BGS, only commander actions.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
It WAS NOT fair for PP to be both Open and Solo PG, because of the undercutting issue - and that's what this change is about and NO OTHER REASON.
For PP to have any real meaning and working mechanic it requires it be locked to just ONE mode so that opposing factions can actually SHOOT AT, those opposing them.
Open is the one where it gets the most benefit, so OPEN is the one it was decided to lock it to.
There was no other decision factor involved, all you Open players who think you've won some sort of victory, NONE. It was a simple choice. How do I know this? Because what is the point of contesting a system if there's NO ONE ELSE to contest it with?
As for the BGS "markets" - what markets? There's no active market to be manipulated here, and no information if it'll ever become one.
Next you'll be saying CG's should be "only open", just to give the PvP idiots something to shoot at - right up until you remember you can all be blocked, and the instances are so small you can't force an engagement without the other players consent by NOT blocking you.
That's your opinion. I think anything that has an effect on the galaxy at large should have to be done in the light of day, where people can see and counter it. I was with a faction for a very long time that constantly dealt with PP prep and BGS assaults from solo so the group doing it could deny any wrongdoing under treaties that were in place. They lost a war, agreed to leave us alone, then switched modes and carried on because the magical cross dimension economy allows that to happen.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Exactly.
And because of this, I think that all mode should count for BGS. It is the same BGS for all. You can't opt in or out of the BGS.
But CZ, is your choice to enter. However, I'd prefer that you had to chose your side before you enter the CZ. This way you couldn't find a vulnerable CMDR, then chose the opposite side when his shields are down.
Ironically, if Frontier were to follow this trend and segregate more game features from solo mode, they would eventually reach a point where an offline mode would be feasible, which is what most solo players have wanted since before the Kickstarter.
Unfortunately, the amount of game left over after all the excisions would be something nobody would want.
Unfortunately, the amount of game left over after all the excisions would be something nobody would want.
It isn't an opinion mate, but a fact. Get over it. The BGS is not about confrontational PvP and never has been. Sure there is a chance it can happen, but that is not what the BGS is about and never has been.
If you want something like that, then powerplay when/if it goes open only is your best bet. The BGS is there to create an ever changing environement for the players to play in. The fact that people have decided to play the BGS is irrelavant.
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No. You CAN oppose it. Someone trying to push the BGS is a direction you dislike? Try and push it in the opposite direction. Someone supporting a Power Play faction you don't like? Support a different faction. It's called a STRATEGY game - not everything PvP comes down to "I've played this longer than you therefore I have more guns and shields". Honestly, it's like complaining you can't win in a running race because you can't shoot the opposition. Just GIT GUD already.
Now, I do agree that there is a lack of a meaningful Combative PvP option within the game since CQC seems to not be popular. I would fully support an (Open Only) addition of something along those lines - I would suggest based around CZ locations which align with the weekly CG / PP focus - but not removing gameplay from the other modes.