Notice Notice regarding supply and demand of high-end minerals

Except that 10 minutes later the demand refreshes like nothing happened. Why isn't the demand gone? Or if you say that they need a fresh batch of items, why aren't the prices different? It's very artificial.
Depends what and where you're trading. And yes, it's a bit simplified, but since it already has more complexity than most people are aware of, there's no point in it being much more detailed until people are making use of what there already is.

This is a couple of weeks of history of the Non-Lethal Weapons market at one station [1] - you can see the demand dropping as trades are made, and the price they pay for more NLWs also dropping at the same time. As NLWs are used up, the demand and price rise again.

This is a fairly small station, though, with a relatively low number of NLWs demanded, so the demand recovery rate is only about 2t in every 10 minute refresh. It took most of a day for the market to fully absorb that really big sale - and it would take over 4 days to recover if someone brought in a couple of full T-9s. But there are lots of goods and markets where the volumes are much higher, and a 10 minute refresh can stick another few hundred tonnes of demand in.

In practice, it's not even really noticeable here - there are only eight NLW sales over the two weeks, and only one of those occurs quickly enough that the market hasn't fully recovered from the previous sale, and then only just. So all this supply and demand activity is going on in the background, but no-one notices any actual effect on their prices.

With over 150 trade goods and about 60,000 markets, there are nowhere near enough traders to change that for most goods. A significant reduction in the total demand tonnage (about 475 billion tonnes) and in the rate at which met demand recovers would be needed to change that.

[1] There's a lot more data available if you want, but I've trimmed it to a date range where there's no BGS state changes going on to show the supply/demand effects more clearly.
 
Nope. If we're talking about trading physical assets on a large scale, that is done with contracts. It's not like someone says "I want to buy N amount of things" and you show up with a cargo ship and sell them stuff. You have a pre agreed deal where you deliver N amount of stuff and they pay you X money. The ED market doesn't work like that, so you can't compare it with real world bulk trading. And the markets that work like the market in ED do not exhibit to behavior.
ED has supply missions, which are analogous to delivery contracts in the present. But in the real world spot markets also exist for a variety of commodities. The settlement time for most spot markets ranges from minutes to days, so the whole idea is that when you make a transaction you have goods parked somewhere ready to deliver. You don't generally stroll up to a bulk shipping terminal unannounced with a fully laden cargo ship, but in principle one could if one had a strong stomach for paperwork.

Now obviously one way ED world commodity trading differs from ours is that ED abstracts away the transportation and logistics and time delays. If you have a tanker of crude oil, you have to go to petroleum terminal to unload, whereas if you have a load of bulk grain you probably need to find a grain elevator with available space. In either case, once you've done that, if you don't already have a buyer you could go to the corresponding mercantile exchange to execute an immediate sale on the spot market, or arrange a contract for future delivery. In the ED world the landing pad also acts as a universal cargo terminal, and there would be an army of brokers behind the scenes of that "simple" market prices display. What physically happens once the cargo canisters leave your ship is left entirely abstract.
 
The new process should be on supply and DEMAND and demand should be based on what the base wants. If the base want 100 items and quotes a price, then I would expect to be able to sell 100 at that price. If I want to sell any amount less than 100 I would still expect to receive that same price. If however, I then want to sell more than the 100 demand then, yes, I would expect to get a lower price for the excess.

Reducing the price depending on the amount of cargo in your hold assumes that you are going to see the whole lot. It would be better if the SELL screen shows the price based on how much you are selling. So if you set the sell quantity to anything up to the demand quantity then you should see the price listed for that market, then as you increase the amount to sell above that amount then you should see the price reduce to reflect the "average" price of each item to sell. That way I could sell part of my cargo for a decent price then either go elsewhere looking for another high demand station, or wait for the 10 minutes for the market to refresh and sell some more.
 
Nope. If we're talking about trading physical assets on a large scale, that is done with contracts. It's not like someone says "I want to buy N amount of things" and you show up with a cargo ship and sell them stuff. You have a pre agreed deal where you deliver N amount of stuff and they pay you X money. The ED market doesn't work like that, so you can't compare it with real world bulk trading. And the markets that work like the market in ED do not exhibit to behavior.
No market in the real world works like Elite. So saying the bull tax is justified is just as reasonable as saying it isn't.
 
However - basing the price given to you on the number of items in your hold rather than the actual demand at the station, is just massive kick in the face to people working in wings.
It's a massive kick in the face to everyone in general. This is why I refuse to mine until it's fixed.
X.
 
There are moral issues here too....the devs gave us legitimate gameplay to go earn fortunes, any balancing to the commodity market should have been implemented then, not months after the event . , how about just increasing the demand more evenly
 
Apologies if this is already common knowledge here (been skimming the thread and didn't spot it being mentioned explicitly) but I only just found out that this "Bulk Sale Tax" thing has been in the game since at least January 2015 and possibly even earlier.

bulk-sale-fee-hidden-tax-for-traders

Anyway, thought some might find that interesting.

o7
According to that thread the bulk sales tax isn't very much. Up to 5% is not massive. Has that changed?
 
According to that thread the bulk sales tax isn't very much. Up to 5% is not massive. Has that changed?
Yeah - someone else has also pointed that out to me. No idea I'm afraid - a) that thread is really old so possibly the "sales tax" values have changed and b) perhaps the tax varies according to the type and values of the commodity being sold. I'd never heard of that sales tax thing before yesterday. It's also intriguing that it says it doesn't (or at least didn't) apply to sales at Shinrarta. Has anyone tried selling VO's at Jameson Memorial? It'd be intertesting to know whether they still see differences in purchase price per VO dependning on the quantity being carried.
 
"When selling minerals at a station, the price that is offered is based on the amount currently in your Cargo Hold."
This is flawed. Not only is this an awkward and counterintuitive way to approach the transaction it makes assumptions regarding the player's actions, namely that I'm going to empty my hold in one transaction.
I would much prefer that I be given a per unit price that changes depending on how many units I choose to SELL. Then >I< can make a decision regarding how many units to sell based on the per-unit price I'm being offered. Meaning I'll sell some to this station and some to that station and so on and so forth... in order to get the best price.
 
As of today, I am still getting 1.1M a ton for LTD in loads under 200T. It just takes a few minutes more to find a system with both the price and demand I need close enough to reach in a timely fashion. So far this change has only really slightly reduced what I can make an hour laser mining in a triple LTD hot spot. It just made it a bit more difficult and maybe requires I fly a bit further.
If the economy changes don't have the desired effect how long before the triple hotspot becomes a double hotspot and eventually the double becomes a single? Given the amount of resources being extracted it would be hard to argue against.
 

Stephen Benedetti

Community Manager
Frontier
Greetings Commanders,

Thanks for all of the feedback you've shared with us on this topic, particularly in regard to the prices being offered by stations based on the amount of commodities currently in your Cargo Hold.

Since the January Update, with the help of your feedback, we have identified that this process doesn't perform as well as we intended and it's something the team will be looking into improving in a future update.

As always, as soon as we have more information about that, we'll let the community know, whether it's in the Patch Notes or an announcement.

o7
 
If the economy changes don't have the desired effect how long before the triple hotspot becomes a double hotspot and eventually the double becomes a single? Given the amount of resources being extracted it would be hard to argue against.
FDev have not coded in Viable system... All laser mined rocks reset after 2 hours so the hotspots do not empty ever of laser mining rocks and there location is fixed this allows maping of the hot spots for repeated runs... deep core mining can run out (if enough players were to do mining) Laser never does as after 2 hours you just restart at the start of the maped route..
 
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Greetings Commanders,

Thanks for all of the feedback you've shared with us on this topic, particularly in regard to the prices being offered by stations based on the amount of commodities currently in your Cargo Hold.

Since the January Update, with the help of your feedback, we have identified that this process doesn't perform as well as we intended and it's something the team will be looking into improving in a future update.

As always, as soon as we have more information about that, we'll let the community know, whether it's in the Patch Notes or an announcement.

o7
That’s really good news! I look forward to seeing this improved. Thank you Stephen and Frontier devs :)
 
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