News NPC AI update
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
Great news, I hope the AI is left how it is. The game is dangerous now, finally.
I got killed in my Cutter within 3 seconds, by a Python firing Plasma Acc like a multicannon. So great that this bug has been squashed.
Keep up the good work.
I got killed in my Cutter within 3 seconds, by a Python firing Plasma Acc like a multicannon. So great that this bug has been squashed.
Keep up the good work.
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Hey guys,
We wanted to share a quick update with you to let you know how the investigation into the NPC AI has been progressing after the removal of the Engineers weapons for the NPCs and what the next steps are.
The development team have been hard at work investigating these bugs. To give you a little more information, it appears that the unusual weapons attacks were caused by some form of networking issue which allowed the NPC AI to merge weapon stats and abilities. Meaning that all new and never before seen (sometimes devastating) weapons were created, such as a rail gun with the fire rate of a pulse laser. These appear to have been compounded by the additional stats and abilities of the engineers weaponry. (We don’t think the AI became sentient in a Skynet-style uprising!). However, the valiant Mark Allen from the Development team has managed to terminate these NPCs in their tracks.
The bug fix is expected to go live in our next point release which is planned for the end of this week/early next week but we’ll have more news on the exact time in the normal patch notes forum.
I would just like to take this opportunity to clarify a few misconceptions. The AI has in no way been reduced, it remains the glorious, improved version from the update. The only action that we’ve taken so far has been to remove the engineer weapons to allow us to investigate the issue and address a key bug. Once this bug fix goes live we’ll be able to see how the AI is performing and then, over time, should we feel that the balancing is right to introduce a very select few high end engineers weapons to the highest ranked NPCs we will investigate that option. However, that won’t be immediately as we want to ensure that the balance is just right.
Edit: Please note this point update will be PC specific and the Xbox One update will need to follow after. We'll let you know as soon as we have more information.
This is the kind of clear informative communication that is very much needed. Very much appreciate the feedback and I am sure many players will agree that understanding what is happening will stifle silly ignorant rumor mill speculation. Great job and thanks
Zac, thanks for the update.
Now some serious considerations. This kind of disaster ( going LIVE with all those bugs ) happened for just one reason: the BETA structure is completely WRONG.
What happened?
1. Too short time of BETA without any targets to meet: we saw that, for the majority of videos available on the internet ( and I mean 99% ), players were focused on doing "pimp my ride" stuff - that's WRONG. And If you allow this to happen on 2.2, you'll be facing a even bigger problem as the game is getting bigger. You should make the beta OPEN and give tasks for maybe a dozen of open beta-testers to look for a specific area of the game. So next time, we won't see uncompromised people doing NOTHING except "pimp my ride" stuff.
2. You can of course do the CLOSED BETA for who paid - but for the sake of 2.2 (and so on) do a OPEN BETA with at least ONE WEEK - in fact what we had in LIVE version was a Horizons 2.2 Beta 7 - when finnaly players took up theirs lives and experienced the majority of bugs that the game mechanics had. Do you guys realize that only when the server went live that you got your hands on the worse kinds of bugs? That just leads us to an obvious conclusion: Lazy betas doing nothing except "pimping their rides"
Believe me, ELITE DANGEROUS is getting bigger and bigger - every new launch will bring of course new bugs, that's absolutely normal and expected. What you CANNOT expect is seeing paying betas testing the game mechanics. The only thing you saw in beta was Corvettes and Cutters roaming around with maxed out modifications. Please, DO NOT encourage this kind of behavior on 2.2 BETA, or you'll or inevitably, you WILL face even greater problems, and players even more furious.
On next expansion, try to:
2.2 Closed Beta1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ( or wathever it takes ) for 2 or 3 weeks.
2.2 Open Beta for 1 or 2 weeks.
- DO NOT allow players to start with zillions of credits and high end ships on Beta 1 and 2 - WIPE all accounts, ranks, influence and reputation for stage 1 and 2.
- On Beta 3 and 4, allow players to experience MID-END ships - and LIMIT their access to 10 systems with conflict zones, RES (all kinds). Make them test the game mechanics.
- On Beta 5 and 6, allow players to experience HIGH-END ships with full modifications available to "stress test" the new game mechanics.
- On Beta 7 (open beta), allow everyone to roam around the galaxy.
But more than everything - ASK PLAYERS FOR RESULTS. Forget about "cool events" - the failure of 2.1 BETA was so massive that people wasn't even testing properly the A.I. to find out that some npc ships were "mass firing" and ignoring ship status during combat (heat, delay, damage to modules, etc...).
If you keep this line of work (engineers) on the 2.2, I bet US$ 100 - you'll face an even bigger problem.
That's my 2 cents about it.
Regards,
Dave.
Now some serious considerations. This kind of disaster ( going LIVE with all those bugs ) happened for just one reason: the BETA structure is completely WRONG.
What happened?
1. Too short time of BETA without any targets to meet: we saw that, for the majority of videos available on the internet ( and I mean 99% ), players were focused on doing "pimp my ride" stuff - that's WRONG. And If you allow this to happen on 2.2, you'll be facing a even bigger problem as the game is getting bigger. You should make the beta OPEN and give tasks for maybe a dozen of open beta-testers to look for a specific area of the game. So next time, we won't see uncompromised people doing NOTHING except "pimp my ride" stuff.
2. You can of course do the CLOSED BETA for who paid - but for the sake of 2.2 (and so on) do a OPEN BETA with at least ONE WEEK - in fact what we had in LIVE version was a Horizons 2.2 Beta 7 - when finnaly players took up theirs lives and experienced the majority of bugs that the game mechanics had. Do you guys realize that only when the server went live that you got your hands on the worse kinds of bugs? That just leads us to an obvious conclusion: Lazy betas doing nothing except "pimping their rides"
Believe me, ELITE DANGEROUS is getting bigger and bigger - every new launch will bring of course new bugs, that's absolutely normal and expected. What you CANNOT expect is seeing paying betas testing the game mechanics. The only thing you saw in beta was Corvettes and Cutters roaming around with maxed out modifications. Please, DO NOT encourage this kind of behavior on 2.2 BETA, or you'll or inevitably, you WILL face even greater problems, and players even more furious.
On next expansion, try to:
2.2 Closed Beta1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ( or wathever it takes ) for 2 or 3 weeks.
2.2 Open Beta for 1 or 2 weeks.
- DO NOT allow players to start with zillions of credits and high end ships on Beta 1 and 2 - WIPE all accounts, ranks, influence and reputation for stage 1 and 2.
- On Beta 3 and 4, allow players to experience MID-END ships - and LIMIT their access to 10 systems with conflict zones, RES (all kinds). Make them test the game mechanics.
- On Beta 5 and 6, allow players to experience HIGH-END ships with full modifications available to "stress test" the new game mechanics.
- On Beta 7 (open beta), allow everyone to roam around the galaxy.
But more than everything - ASK PLAYERS FOR RESULTS. Forget about "cool events" - the failure of 2.1 BETA was so massive that people wasn't even testing properly the A.I. to find out that some npc ships were "mass firing" and ignoring ship status during combat (heat, delay, damage to modules, etc...).
If you keep this line of work (engineers) on the 2.2, I bet US$ 100 - you'll face an even bigger problem.
That's my 2 cents about it.
Regards,
Dave.
NPC Hauler out turns my light Vulture with Class A thruster!!!!
After the Engineers update there is something totally out of whack with the NPCs. I have a Python that has all A modules and a very light Vulture with A thrusters and now both of them get our maneuvered by freighters. Before the Engineers update I could kill all NPC in seconds, now I can't seem to kill a Hauler. Also, within 5 seconds of my attack an entire navy of system authority ships show up. The game is not fun anymore and unless something is done, I will quit playing and stop paying for my subscription. The game use to be fun, now it's just frustrating! [mad]
After the Engineers update there is something totally out of whack with the NPCs. I have a Python that has all A modules and a very light Vulture with A thrusters and now both of them get our maneuvered by freighters. Before the Engineers update I could kill all NPC in seconds, now I can't seem to kill a Hauler. Also, within 5 seconds of my attack an entire navy of system authority ships show up. The game is not fun anymore and unless something is done, I will quit playing and stop paying for my subscription. The game use to be fun, now it's just frustrating! [mad]
I almost left the game too. I was being crushed like the insignificant speck of stardust in a large and dangerous galaxy that I am. Suicidal ramming cops. Gatling-gun PAs. Teleporting uber-ships. Interdictions three at a time. I felt it was hopeless to go on.
Then I remembered my Three Wolf Moon t-shirt! I quickly popped into a station hanger and had them give me a matching paint job. When I ventured out again, the difference was like darkside and lightside! I instantly noticed the fear and respect from the hopped-up new Übershippen; even Deadly and Elite pilots were trembling in their space boots when they saw my ship. I don't know how much the paint job helped in combat because everyone was afraid to take me on, because I was sporting my 1337 lupine powers. Eventually, my ship gathered a gaggle of women who were throwing their ships at me, overloading my comm channels and waving their undergarments out the portholes. Stations were giving me free cargo just for the privilege of flying under my colors & the syscops were deferential & envious; they haven't scanned me yet, even running illegals!
So if you're someone who is unhappy with the game and on the verge of quitting, I recommend you get a Three Wolf Moon paintjob and watch as the entire galaxy bows down to your ossum.
Then I remembered my Three Wolf Moon t-shirt! I quickly popped into a station hanger and had them give me a matching paint job. When I ventured out again, the difference was like darkside and lightside! I instantly noticed the fear and respect from the hopped-up new Übershippen; even Deadly and Elite pilots were trembling in their space boots when they saw my ship. I don't know how much the paint job helped in combat because everyone was afraid to take me on, because I was sporting my 1337 lupine powers. Eventually, my ship gathered a gaggle of women who were throwing their ships at me, overloading my comm channels and waving their undergarments out the portholes. Stations were giving me free cargo just for the privilege of flying under my colors & the syscops were deferential & envious; they haven't scanned me yet, even running illegals!
So if you're someone who is unhappy with the game and on the verge of quitting, I recommend you get a Three Wolf Moon paintjob and watch as the entire galaxy bows down to your ossum.
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1. I applaud DEV for working hard to kill this bug.
2. Will I get my 3 Mil credits back that machine-gun PAs have cost me? (I realize some CMDRs have lost 10 times that amount, perhaps more... what's the plan for in-game compensation?)
EDIT: I just saw a "contact support if you've experienced related losses" - I filed a report in the dedicated thread yesterday ... is that sufficient, or should I contact via a different method?
2. Will I get my 3 Mil credits back that machine-gun PAs have cost me? (I realize some CMDRs have lost 10 times that amount, perhaps more... what's the plan for in-game compensation?)
EDIT: I just saw a "contact support if you've experienced related losses" - I filed a report in the dedicated thread yesterday ... is that sufficient, or should I contact via a different method?
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ive just been overmanoeuvred and overspeeded by a Type-6 transporter.. and im piloting a friking class A imperial courier!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw some strange stuff during Beta, but I don't know if it was anything like people have reported. I didn't say anything becuase I thought it was part of 1.6/2.1.
I wonder if this issue wasn't reported also because of the implementation of Mayhem, where getting/using mod weapons was easier. It's likely Beta players had a better chance, if not superior, when encountering some of the super NPC's.
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Thanks for the fantastic, detailed update as always Zac. I don't know any other game where the devs give this much detailed info about the inner workings of the game, especially if it's related to a bug.
Looking forward to the results
Sounds like the pest control team have been working hard to identify the problems - thank to all!
.... and thanks for clarifying that the AI itself has not been toned down.
This actually sounds way more complex than anyone predicted
Great work as ever guys.
Nice update. This is great communication with the community!
ah this must be the famed toxic community i kept hearing about!
awesome work guys. <3
I don't need to be pulled out of warp every 3 or 4 jumps by a Fur de lance or an Anaconda exclusively by them 2 ships or do I? . Why do you at FD want to kill us so bad. Do you think fun is losing 25 mill every hour or two. I haven't herd an answer yet. I fly a Cutter for trade and Im a novice in combat. Even if I wasn't a novice good luck with a trade fit Cutter with them npc's. I never even posted on the forums till this patch. That's how mad I am. Engineer's patch has totally ruined the game for me. I want to keep playing but I will not if this is how it's gonna be.
Yes, it's very disturbing. The camaraderie. The appreciation. Just toxic happiness and joy. So shameful.
And, haven't said it yet, thank you FD. I appreciate the work you are doing.
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Honestly I think the virtually instant melting of 6k shields would probably rate a mention? Going to go with that being really obviously busted. So no, based on the hours I pumped into it, there were obvious last minute fixes that made the release build, that just broke. And the dev's have pretty much said as much.
It's very easy to bash on the beta process; but ultimately there is only so much you can do in any given time and stuff is going to break. It's like frontier has to somehow not experience bugs unlike every other developer on the planet. It's hilarious. Sad. But still hilarious.
Folks are going to have to realise and come to terms with the fact that sometimes - stuff just breaks. Frontier aren't inhuman. Stuff will break. It matters more what the developer does about it, than the problem itself. And they are addressing it. So good stuff. I hope the AI doesn't become downgraded to tubs of yoghurt again, but it appears Frontier want to try and keep part of that risk still in place and ensure AI continue to remain a bit of a threat, yet somewhat forgiving at lower ranks. So to me? Hoping for a win-win, really.
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Fantastic!!!
I am gladdened to see that you are willing to share with us the cause of the issue and look forward to having Elite reclaim my "Favorite Game" title.
Thank you very much for letting us know the expected fix date,... now all of us who spent all their hard earned credits on new shiny ships know when it's safe to take to the stars again!
PS: I do feel a little sorry for the Xbox guys though,... but only a little.
I am gladdened to see that you are willing to share with us the cause of the issue and look forward to having Elite reclaim my "Favorite Game" title.
Thank you very much for letting us know the expected fix date,... now all of us who spent all their hard earned credits on new shiny ships know when it's safe to take to the stars again!
PS: I do feel a little sorry for the Xbox guys though,... but only a little.