NPC scanning on foot within base

[dubsdj]

And so this would render most missions as this:

• Run up to guard at the start, get scanned
• Go do the mission without any thought or care about the guards
• End

It's important you all stop seeing the guard scans like you probably see speed cameras when you're driving. They're not there to annoy you, they're there to keep you on your toes and make the infiltration game challenging. If you could just "turn them off" with the simple act of triggering one at the start, you might as well delete the whole feature and just let us walk in to do anything without any game play.

Please stop trying to suggest the game should change just because you don't wish to play by its rules.

Ok I get that, but accidently missing a scan request results in the whole base instantly opening fire and that is just plain silly and I'm sure we all agree on that right? There needs to be a cool down timer or like I said, they surround you and insist you get scanned. It's just not very well thought out as it is.
if(scanIgnored == TRUE){
killPlayer = TRUE;
baseAlarm = TRUE;
playerHasNoChance = TRUE;
rageQuit = TRUE;
launchMouseAndKeyboardOutWindow = TRUE;
playerAngryCounter ++;
}

 

[taniwha-qf]

Ok I get that, but accidently missing a scan request results in the whole base instantly opening fire and that is just plain silly and I'm sure we all agree on that right? There needs to be a cool down timer or like I said, they surround you and insist you get scanned. It's just not very well thought out as it is.

No, we do not all agree on that. You are already on suspicion the moment you set foot in the settlement. Not submitting to a scan escalates the suspicion to kill on sight.

It's really very simple. Do not run. Pay attention. Steer clear of guards whenever possible (always, when outside).

 

[Frankymole]

I also don't like the whole "DON'T GET TOO CLOSE", "GET AWAY FROM ME" stuff, that's just plain rude. I don't get people saying that every time I walk in Tesco's.. What did I do to upset them other than walking past them.

In stations, I just got a kind of "oof" and a glare when I bumped into them, though one NPC near the lifts did a breakdance and plunged through as wall and then fell down and apparently died.

 

[photomankc]

.

I suspect one of the issues is many people have got used to playing games were you run around like an idiot constantly without a care in the world. Elite isnt that type of game.

Sigh.

No. The issue is two fold.

1.) Insta-death-sentence for failing a scan is over the top. If you are moving away a fine first and then going hot if you continue moving away more than X feet. seems more appropriate.

2.) Guards that can’t path to you deciding to scan you. Dont move or they’ll kill you but they cant reach you in time so noncompliance and they’ll kill you. This is not good gameplay. Its a buggy interaction and it happens pretty reliably in certain situations.

 

[photomankc]

And so this would render most missions as this:

• Run up to guard at the start, get scanned
• Go do the mission without any thought or care about the guards
• End

It's important you all stop seeing the guard scans like you probably see speed cameras when you're driving. They're not there to annoy you, they're there to keep you on your toes and make the infiltration game challenging. If you could just "turn them off" with the simple act of triggering one at the start, you might as well delete the whole feature and just let us walk in to do anything without any game play.

Please stop trying to suggest the game should change just because you don't wish to play by its rules.

Gahhh. The hyperbole.

Add some triggers that reset it. You enter and leave a building “hmmm. Why was he in the Industrial building”? You are seen crouching near them or interesting assets. “Hmmm, why is that guy crawling around on the ground”. You are seen running near them. “Hmmm. Why is that guy running like that”. You come landing off a rooftop near them “Thats odd. The workers here don’t usually come jumping off the roof”.

Id just like it if the same guard didn’t want to scan you every 30 seconds or so. I like the sneaking and genuinely enjoy sometimes getting caught by a guard I didn’t get scanned or wasn’t expecting. You could still implement the timer as long as reasonable events the guard sees clear it. They should be suspicious as hell about the guy running and ducking behind the boxes if thier attention cone catches it.

 

[taniwha-qf]

1.) Insta-death-sentence for failing a scan is over the top. If you are moving away a fine first and then going hot if you continue moving away more than X feet. seems more appropriate.

No, just pay more attention. They don't like you in the first place and are just itching for an excuse to shoot you. You just gave them one.

2.) Guards that can’t path to you deciding to scan you. Dont move or they’ll kill you but they cant reach you in time so noncompliance and they’ll kill you. This is not good gameplay. Its a buggy interaction and it happens pretty reliably in certain situations.

This may be a problem (I haven't run into it, so I can't comment on it). The only thing I can suggest is to avoid the guards so they don't try to scan you. If they don't try to scan you, this issue won't come up.

Move sedately (normal jogging pace at most), passive-scan everyone you see (puts them on your radar), pay attention to where they are, keeping them out of your red circle (or even the next one out if possible).

During the alpha, I did something like 5-10 back-to-back transport missions this way, all without a problem (all in the Adityan system, of course). You have 5-6 hours to complete your missions, it takes less than five minutes (jogging!) to pick up the parcel once you arrive at the settlement. Not counting transit time, that's 50-60 minutes for ten missions, leaving 4-5 hours for transit. Stop rushing.

If you're there for something more nefarious, definitely avoid being scanned in the first place. It's not that hard.

 

[Kaocraft]

The constant scanning is OK by me, but there needs to be some more nuance between “hey stop please while I scan you” and “OK guess we’re gonna kill you now”.

Honestly this kind of thing is part of Frontier’s MO. They don’t seem to know how to do “yellow light” it’s either red or green and that’s all there is.

 

[photomankc]

If you're there for something more nefarious, definitely avoid being scanned in the first place. It's not that hard.

I am not commenting on how hard it is. Its a problem in the AI that should be fixed no matter how many dismissive forum posts are made by people who have not experienced it. If they can’t path they should not initiate a scan. Pretty cut-n-dry.

Also, they sell things and offer missions at foot terminals. They cant be that offended by my existence.

 

[Ydiss]

Gahhh. The hyperbole.

Add some triggers that reset it. You enter and leave a building “hmmm. Why was he in the Industrial building”? You are seen crouching near them or interesting assets. “Hmmm, why is that guy crawling around on the ground”. You are seen running near them. “Hmmm. Why is that guy running like that”. You come landing off a rooftop near them “Thats odd. The workers here don’t usually come jumping off the roof”.

Id just like it if the same guard didn’t want to scan you every 30 seconds or so. I like the sneaking and genuinely enjoy sometimes getting caught by a guard I didn’t get scanned or wasn’t expecting. You could still implement the timer as long as reasonable events the guard sees clear it. They should be suspicious as hell about the guy running and ducking behind the boxes if thier attention cone catches it.

Heh, you say hyperbole then exaggerate the facts. It's not 30 seconds before they reset.

The only issue I have with the guard scans is they can glitch sometimes and sure, the algorithm could be a bit smarter (I've seen some really messy examples where it goes wrong). But I see nothing wrong with keeping it very simple for game play reasons. That is, you will get scanned if you get too close. Stay away. But if they do scan you and you get away with it, you know you've got a short time to do stuff without fear (which actually can be used in some cases).

I just don't think it needs to be more complicated. But it's ok if you do.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

 

[GloatingSwine]

And so this would render most missions as this:

• Run up to guard at the start, get scanned
• Go do the mission without any thought or care about the guards
• End

It's important you all stop seeing the guard scans like you probably see speed cameras when you're driving. They're not there to annoy you, they're there to keep you on your toes and make the infiltration game challenging. If you could just "turn them off" with the simple act of triggering one at the start, you might as well delete the whole feature and just let us walk in to do anything without any game play.

Please stop trying to suggest the game should change just because you don't wish to play by its rules.

Of course, you can turn them off.

Just murder all the guards.

No more scans.

From watching D2EA as long as you hit them where nobody sees them die, nobody else goes aggro. An upgraded silenced sniper seems to do the trick.

 

[Ydiss]

Of course, you can turn them off.

Just murder all the guards.

No more scans.

From watching D2EA as long as you hit them where nobody sees them die, nobody else goes aggro. An upgraded silenced sniper seems to do the trick.

Yeh, I know been doing this in anarchy settlements since alpha

Source: https://youtu.be/3I9wJuOrw8c

Source: https://youtu.be/_aK5eeEOZ9k


It's even easier with noise suppressor

Honed the process a lot since then too. But, it's all still pretty straightforward to not kill. All that murdering is fine until you need to do a non violent. So it's useful to know all the methods.

 

[Arclight386]

The thing I find jarring is that you can just stand there, without raising a weapon or resisting in any way and they'll just gun you down.

Triggering hostilities is fine. It's in line with how hostile the AI is in the rest of the game. But maybe it could recognise a surrender.

If it's an honest mistake stop moving, stow weapons, pay the fine (not bounty). If you have reason to keep running then the response is justified. Same logic can be extended to ship gameplay. Certainly a more elegant way to "reset" their behaviour than jumping out and right back in.

 

[photomankc]

Heh, you say hyperbole then exaggerate the facts. It's not 30 seconds before they reset.

The only issue I have with the guard scans is they can glitch sometimes and sure, the algorithm could be a bit smarter (I've seen some really messy examples where it goes wrong). But I see nothing wrong with keeping it very simple for game play reasons. That is, you will get scanned if you get too close. Stay away. But if they do scan you and you get away with it, you know you've got a short time to do stuff without fear (which actually can be used in some cases).

I just don't think it needs to be more complicated. But it's ok if you do.

I dont know the exact number of seconds so probably is wrong.

To be honest you have a strong point. It is simple and it basically works but there is no difference in how you are treated ally to unfriendly / acting shady to just walking to your box.

What Id like to see is a bit more complex but i think more interesting. The guards have a suspicion level from 0 to 1. They start at a 1 when you arrive. 100% chance they scan you. Once they do it drops to .25 or lower if you are allied. Thus the other guards are not super interested in you and probably wont scan you.

Player behavior then determines suspicion level from there. Dont do shady stuff and it stays that way. The straight and narrow commander that just goes and picks up his bobble is left alone. Sneaking, running, hiding at the edges of the settlement tick that up quickly leading back to guards scanning you again. How that is implemented is not all that important but what is important is that player actions drive it.

Not a fully fleshed out thing but perhaps you see where im going.

 

[Ydiss]

I dont know the exact number of seconds so probably is wrong.

To be honest you have a strong point. It is simple and it basically works but there is no difference in how you are treated ally to unfriendly / acting shady to just walking to your box.

What Id like to see is a bit more complex but i think more interesting. The guards have a suspicion level from 0 to 1. They start at a 1 when you arrive. 100% chance they scan you. Once they do it drops to .25 or lower if you are allied. Thus the other guards are not super interested in you and probably wont scan you.

Player behavior then determines suspicion level from there. Dont do shady stuff and it stays that way. The straight and narrow commander that just goes and picks up his bobble is left alone. Sneaking, running, hiding at the edges of the settlement tick that up quickly leading back to guards scanning you again. How that is implemented is not all that important but what is important is that player actions drive it.

Not a fully fleshed out thing but perhaps you see where im going.

I'd like to see variations to how they react to you based on your reputation, definitely.

 

[taniwha-qf]

I am not commenting on how hard it is. Its a problem in the AI that should be fixed no matter how many dismissive forum posts are made by people who have not experienced it. If they can’t path they should not initiate a scan. Pretty cut-n-dry.

I'm not saying there aren't bugs (despite not having encountered any scanning related bugs). What I'm saying is it's usually possible to avoid the bugs. If you're not detected, no scan will be initiated, and it's usually not hard to avoid detection by a guard.

But yeah, if a guard can't find a path to get within range of you to scan you, the guard probably should not demand one.

Honestly this kind of thing is part of Frontier’s MO. They don’t seem to know how to do “yellow light” it’s either red or green and that’s all there is.

This is not true. For having a weapon out, or a tool in an illegal mode, or you being in a restricted area, you do get one warning, and even a decent amount of time to react (holster device, leave restricted area).

 

[GloatingSwine]

I'd like to see variations to how they react to you based on your reputation, definitely.

Based on reputation, settlement type, and BGS state.

The current system is just one thing that makes surface settlements lack verisimilitude. You can be scanned twice by the same guard within a couple of minutes of each other, in a public area, in a Tourism settlement.

No wonder there are only about three other non-guard NPCs* there, no actual tourists would show up with this sort of officious nonsense.



*Another issue, really. Surface sites need a lot more functional staff and a lot less guards, they need to feel like they're actually functional spaces not videogame levels where the only goal of NPCs is to be an obstacle to any player who might happen along.