[O.A. VIDEO] Does Elite Dangerous Have a Content Problem?

[Riverside]

I like to fly space ships around in an open universe. Elite scratches that itch for me and has since the 80's.

It feels a little weird for people with 1000's of hours of playing time to complain about lack of content. Why are you playing this game so much instead of another game?

I think we all have ideas that could make the game better. However the devs made a game with realistic scope. Is StarCitizen a finished product yet? It has a lot of the ideas that I've heard people ask for in Elite.

Take breaks from the game if feeling burned out. I stopped playing for two months to play through Subnautica. It was an awesome experience and now I'm back to Elite and feeling refreshed.

I have something significantly exceeding 4,500 hours played according to the in-game stats, very little of that is sitting in stations or otherwise inactive, virtually none of it was AFK. I am not bored, I continue to play.

What I don't do is follow how-to guides or ask for advice. I try to work things out for myself. I never completed the original Guardian puzzle, I never worked out what the UA coded message was, others I have figured out. I don't expect others to play as I do, but I do think a great deal of the complaints about the lack of challenge are from players min/maxing their ship loadout, their revenue stream and bypassing the (imo) best parts of the game - figuring it all out.

I'm not against using help, but I think it's a poor show to copy the other guy's homework then complain there is no challenge. Of course there was no challenge for you, you just googled the answer. So the only gate FDev are left with is repetition - a test of endurance.

IMO, this is why the game is the way it is now.

 

[Sole Hunter]

You have to admit though, that guy knows his stuff. He's got all the ins and outs of the "game" as it were.

Doesn't beat CMDR MickeyMoose1984 though.

I have something significantly exceeding 4,500 hours played according to the in-game stats, very little of that is sitting in stations or otherwise inactive, virtually none of it was AFK. I am not bored, I continue to play.

What I don't do is follow how-to guides or ask for advice. I try to work things out for myself. I never completed the original Guardian puzzle, I never worked out what the UA coded message was, others I have figured out. I don't expect others to play as I do, but I do think a great deal of the complaints about the lack of challenge are from players min/maxing their ship loadout, their revenue stream and bypassing the (imo) best parts of the game - figuring it all out.

I'm not against using help, but I think it's a poor show to copy the other guy's homework then complain there is no challenge. Of course there was no challenge for you, you just googled the answer. So the only gate FDev are left with is repetition - a test of endurance.

IMO, this is why the game is the way it is now.

Half of your hours is probably spent in supercruise or dropping from supercruise.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

There is a lot of content, the issue is that there isn't a great deal of functionality.
Access to most of the content is gated through those same few bits of functionality.

The few new gameplay mechanisms that have been added since 2.0, have been half-hearted botch jobs with little long-lasting appeal. E.g. Multicrew

Mostly everything else has been power-creep or side grade content with unlocks. Engineer refactor, Guardian modules, AX modules, etc.

And other 'new' functionality has just been doing existing things in a different order, e.g. The Guardian puzzle, Megaship hacking, yet another limpet, etc.

I'm actually struggling to figure out what the last genuinely new piece of functionality there was.
Any thoughts?

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

Here's some content suggestions that I think people unfamiliar with the game expect when shopping for a space game they plan on enjoying and also I think experienced players could appreciate:
-the ability to interact with the ship beyond surfing menu gui's (wrenches, micro adjustments like hardpoints convergence, sliders that allow you to tweak lateral thrust at the cost of top speed)
-Npc interactions besides shoot or ignore
-Npc crew that bring benefit and you can actually see
-ship modules you can actually see and repair manually if you lack an AFMU
-exploration missions (faction ABC wants you to scan 12 earth likes in the formidine)
-multi part, long complex missions with high payouts instead of hundreds of simple easy short ones with mediocre payout
-planets with more than random pinata boulders that you shoot
- a compelling reason to care about the thargoids and guardians
-conflict zones or combat scenarios with structures and objectives ( honestly the featureless never ending CZ is a totally garbage mechanic. What are you fighting over? Which side can spawn more ships before the BGS changes its mind again?)
-lots more. If a dev wants they can PM me but I'm sure they wont.

 

[Shanaeri]

Cool. I got a mention on OA's video. Thanks xD

For reference, here is the post he is referring to. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ng-the-(dark)-wheels-spinning?highlight=wheel

The context is that, back then there was talk about a 10% penalty for selling a module and that power play merit decay and indeed the full nature of poweplay had yet to be announced or understood, so the seeds of "busy work grind" were starting to show. There was no engineers, no horizons and at the time a flat power curve.

 

[SnowyNI]

ED is the perfect 10 of space games... most thinks it looks amazing, but it's very shallow, has over protective parents and likes to pretend it's something it's not... Great at everything/anything/nothing. Like many a MMO when there is little to zero story, outcomes or meaning to what you the player is doing, then it becomes pointless and grind is all that's left, no other way to pass the time than bashing your head against that wall til it bleeds. (And if it bleeds, we can kill it... the end!).

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I wonder if FDev just put in a window that at some point pops up and says "Congratulations! You have won Eliteangerous! You can stop playing now and get on with your life" it would solve most of the game's problems pertaining to "lack of content" complains.

Here's the problem: This is an "endless" game. there is no winning. there is no endgame. In most other games, when you've consumed all the content you've won the game. You get a banner or some kind of satisfying cutscene that ties up your whole experience in a nice neat bow, gives you a satisfying pat on the back and sends you on to enjoy the rest of your life, be it another game, or not.

It's not that there's not enough content, or that the game is "an inch wide and a mile deep". It's that after you've plumbed the depths of the game you still don't feel like you've accomplished anything and even though there's still technically another 400 billion systems and trillions of planets/moons out there you haven't seen, countless factions you haven't become allied to, and tons of nickel or carbon you could still scoop for yet another module modification, they all start to look almost exactly the game. The game needs to provide more to players. I don't need more "stuff". I don't need another thing to grind. I just want engaging gameplay.

It's not a content problem, it's a content without a cause problem.

At some point you've earned enough credits, bought enough ships, killed enough NPC's/players/aliens, tagged enough planets, traded enough poo, bused enough passengers, and flipped enough systems.....THEN what? In most games at that point you've won so you put the game away and go do something else, in Elite....you just keep playing and nothing continues to happen.

What we need is a game design that doesn't look at gameplay in terms of time sinks and credit sinks, but gives us entertaining gameplay with enough reward that it doesn't take weeks of grinding to earn the price of admission.

 

[DefiledDragon]

There is content, sadly however, not all of it is perfect, and not all of it melds together perfectly.

What the main issue is, is that the gamer wants the moon and more, wants it right now, and wants the developer to pamper to their every whim or idea. The gamer believes that his or her own idea of fun and good gameplay is the only concept of fun and good gameplay. The gamer also views their own personal band of likes to be observed only for what they think is good. A perfect example of this is the constant use of 'But EvE online has ... ' when in truth, EvE online in a very real way, has pretty much the same if not even more leborious gameplay. BUT hey EvE is big so, no one wants to see it.

So EvE - At the time I stopped playing it (after about 5 years) had
Player run Market - Elite has a player influenced market, but not run, trading actually works at a more profitable level in Elite, in EvE, the actual profits were not worth it unless you could invest many billions... and wait for a month.
Missions - Elite has missions, with argubly the same amount of veriaty. The difference is that EvE has a few different dungeon style encounters, but all boiled down to, sit still, blow stuff up with your OP battleship, go back home. Repeat
Player Owned structures - None in Elite - Great but no real purpose unless you had a corportation of a few hundred people if you want to do anything worth while, other than saying "look at what we have..." Keeping those running was almost like paying to play a game to do a second job, it was not fun at all.
Space Combat - Both have, EvE is a point and click adventure with argubly less skill and more predictable outcomes.
Mining - Both have - and in both cases you sit and watch materials appear in your hold. Argubly Elite has more interactive a process than EvE.
Multiple ships- EvE does have more ships, that is a granted, but, the way they are set out, you argubly by default only have access to one factions branch of ships, which thus means most people have access to less ships than in Elite. Oh yeah, and it takes actually months to get into some of them.

So yeah... tell me again why EvE is like the second coming of Christ and Elite sucks again? (more a question to the community to any poster)

I just dont think people actually view things very objectively, and OA does tend to round up the feelings of rediters, but even then, i think more objective analysis needs to be done. Yes there are issues, but far too often, weight is given to the issues that are not at all really issues, the whole RNG thing is a perfect example... it shows Gamers don't understand stats as well as they think.

You hinted at what makes Eve an arguably better experience, but at the same time you completely ignored it. " Great but no real purpose unless you had a corportation of a few hundred people".

That's what makes Eve Online. It's not really about the game. The game exists to bring people together, either as comrades or combatants, but it's the players that make the game rather than the game itself.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You hinted at what makes Eve an arguably better experience, but at the same time you completely ignored it. " Great but no real purpose unless you had a corportation of a few hundred people".

That's what makes Eve Online. It's not really about the game. The game exists to bring people together, either as comrades or combatants, but it's the players that make the game rather than the game itself.

Which, considering that ED is about 'a lone cmdr in a cold galaxy' makes it perfectly clear that if THAT is what you are after, ED is the opposite of what you are looking for.

 

[DefiledDragon]

There is plenty of content. The issues are with it is that it feels pointless. The game has most things needed for a good game, it's giving a purpose to those things which isn't just credit gain.

I believe this is the crux of the issue for many. There are lots of things to do, but there are very few reasons to do them beyond making money. The game is a second life. It's a jump forward to a future where we're a space faring race and people work on spaceships. Once the initial wow factor and novelty of flying a spaceship wears off, it's just another day at the office.

 

[Conch]

Its really a shame because the game shines bright at the sound and graphics.

 

[DefiledDragon]

Which, considering that ED is about 'a lone cmdr in a cold galaxy' makes it perfectly clear that if THAT is what you are after, ED is the opposite of what you are looking for.

You're pretending that's what the game is about, but the game contradicts you in it's advertising and it's implementation as an "MMO". It's a multiplayer game. So much so that you can't even play "solo" without being online.

Also, I never said that's what I'm after, I'm just pointing out what makes Eve a unique and engaging experience, in spite of it's terrible flight mechanics and almost non existent PvE content.

 

[Mengy]

Good video by OA, and very topical as of late. Sums up my feelings precisely.

I just hope Squadrons doesn't become the main focus of Q4 and overshadow the exploration and mining updates.

I am afraid of this as well. Squadrons being the first feedback topic only reinforces this fear that Frontier is more excited about squadrons than the rest of the Q4 update. The game needs core mechanic improvements more than it needs new bolt on features.

I don't doubt you, and I don't have any numbers to back this up, but I think the exploration update is going to make-or-break the game for a lot of people as well.

Agreed. I know it is for many players, and I certainly know it is for me. I've waited for four years, I'm not waiting any longer.

 

[Chaparral]

Great space ship flight sim. Average SRV driving sim. Beautiful setting and sound. Content? heh. In the same way checkers or chess has content (i.e. BGS). This is a math experience. Remember those old pencil paper dungeons that were dice generated? Not the modules with a story, just the ones with the tables and die throws to generate the map and monsters. Same concept. Except the range of monsters is smaller, and the layouts of the room is more limited.

 

[ZeroAi]

There is plenty of content. The issues are with it is that it feels pointless. The game has most things needed for a good game, it's giving a purpose to those things which isn't just credit gain.

I was just about to post something similar.

Elite is a good game and has most all of the pieces to be great. But I feel like they need to pull it all together into something amazing (before someone else does.)

I could give many examples, but I think the best one is when you max out your progression in rank or rep.

It's at that point, when the game celebrates your hard earn rise to the top (Elite / Admiral / King) with a simple text message, that you realize it's not really a big deal to the "game" at all, but it should be.

This is one of the places where there is a lack of personal narrative.

If FDev asked me what they should do in this area, I'd say do something special for the player when they reach EACH new level. A little cut scene launched from a message in the comms panel would be awesome, and while the decals are nice maybe a free cosmetic item could be awarded too.

Another simpe thing could be to give commanders preferred parking and queing at stations they are allied at, as well as a fancier hanger and fancier Station Services screen as well. I.e. Make being allied have a visual result too.

But no worries if none of that ever happens - to me Elite today is about great ships to fly, an awesome galaxy to explore, and fun multiplayer.

And if they can't get the other stuff into their game, someone else is bound to, and I'll just buy that game too.

 

[Thatchinho]

You're pretending that's what the game is about, but the game contradicts you in it's advertising and it's implementation as an "MMO". It's a multiplayer game. So much so that you can't even play "solo" without being online.

It doesn't contradict what he said whatsoever. That's what you are in ED, just some random person making your way in a galaxy that cares not a jot for you. You're not special, you're not the hero of ED, you're not the villain of ED, you're nobody. There being other people in the galaxy who are in exactly the same position in no way makes it no longer correct.

 

[Chaparral]

ED is the perfect 10 of space games... most thinks it looks amazing, but it's very shallow, has over protective parents and likes to pretend it's something it's not... Great at everything/anything/nothing. Like many a MMO when there is little to zero story, outcomes or meaning to what you the player is doing, then it becomes pointless and grind is all that's left, no other way to pass the time than bashing your head against that wall til it bleeds. (And if it bleeds, we can kill it... the end!).

Yeah you have clearly NOT played other MMOs. Story drives all quests and activities.

 

[Chris Simon]

Yeah you have clearly NOT played other MMOs. Story drives all quests and activities.

Elite isn't an MMO, though, nor is it a PvP combat sim, nor anything else some people want it to be. It's a simple free-roam exploration game with some added multiplayer functionality and living galaxy simulated server-side to save resources.

 

[Thatchinho]

Yeah you have clearly NOT played other MMOs. Story drives all quests and activities.

The story drives a large amount of my quests and activities in ED. (Other stuff I just do because I fancy doing it!)

 

[CMDR Robb Macruz]

Indeed. I just like flying my ship. There is a growing opinion that we must get all the things right now that I don't subscribe to.

problem is time, when you need more than 20 hours to unlock just one thing that's not even top of the line in game item there's a problem, yeah you might have the spare time to get those 20 hours in the spawn of 3 days, some people have something called real life and those 20 hours can transform into a month, guess why people as you say want "things right now"? because Elite shouldn't be a second full time job

the game pretty much boils down to: You want to do combat? you gotta grind for credits and rebuys for a ship, then you have to grind to unlock engineers, guess what now you need to grind more to mod each module, you just grind for each module? guess what? you can't just mod at leisure, you need to grind the particular engineer to unlock another engineer which needs you to grind more to unlock the one you want, now you grinded guess what? you need a bigger ship because you grinded your combat rank and now you have to fight bigger better ships, now go grind missions for credits, oh I forgot, now grind rank for the ship you want, you just grinded rank and credits? your modules are worthless, go grind engineers once more also don't forget to grind for the module that costs as much as your ship plus the rebuy.

Yeah sure you can do combat on a Sidewinder, but as a comment on the video put it you can also mow your lawn with a pair of nose clippers, it doesn't mean it's efficient to do so