Obsidian Ant NEW VIDEO - Crime and Punishment is Flawed

[Mr_sukebe]

Looks utterly overblown to me. It's real easy:
- Don't speed near a station (avoid bounties in that area)
- Be careful what you fire at (partially avoid friendly fire)
- Don't be dumb enough to build combat ships with jack all jump range. After all, PvP players have been blathering on about traders carrying shields. Clearly that "advice" now applies to jump range too
- You commit a crime, regardless of size, then MAN UP and deal with the consequences. It really isn't that hard to find an Interstellar Factors.

Just a lot of noise over something that OA stated himself has actually added an interesting element to the game in a positive way, i.e. CONSEQUENCES.
Where we are already feels like a good thing.

 

[Commander Makro]

You manage to trigger an assault bounty with Class 1 lasers on a sidey? You mashed that trigger a lot longer than one second.

Besides, why not just let the cops kill you at that point? It's a sidey.

And lastly, if you're going to go out to a remote place like Sothis/Ceos, then you'd better make sure you have a backup plan, or a ship capable of getting the hell out of dodge should things go south. I have no issues with this gameplay.

First off, the weapons were upgraded and shipped in. Engineered Weaps, dude. I'll post the log if it helps you to understand - but trust me, they're the same timestamp. Less than a second, dude.
Why not let the cops kill me? Sheesh. I dunno. Maybe survival instinct - and the fact that it's just plain wrong.
Lastly - backup plan? For running data missions 8.9 light years away? C'mon, give me a break. This is supposed to be a game.

 

[galahad2069]

I just don't understand why you people want a game with no consequences.

They don't.
"Reasonable consequences" are not the same as "no consequences".

 

[Commander Makro]

So, basically, you're shouting about having a system kind of exactly like what was put up for discussion by the Dev team a week ago?

From where I stand, it very much looks like FDev are agreeing with us on this one! e.g. "at the lower end of the scale... the measures are too harsh". My point (and many others') exactly!

 

[LeoBartlet]

So basically just going by the Op's title Mr Ant is saying what's pretty much been said on this forum since 3.0 dropped.

No need to watch the vid in that case.

 

[GG7]

I always view the Ants videos and respect his view. I haven't been fined or really done anything that warrants a fine etc yet so it's hard to figure out what the problem really is. Follow the law and you should be fine I would think. Reading the comments here lets me know to be careful completing a few actions... good thought provoking thread ...

Do a few Planetary Scan missions and you will begin to see what he was talking about. Regarding punishing law abiding players for basically just playing the game.

(Those missions once did not incur ANY crimes on completion. The mission givers STILL refer to the location you are asked to scan as "One of their comm beacons". Yet now you get a 500-600CR bounty punishable by DEATH in the issuing system for completing the scan and the mission.)

Before the new C&P these missions would still be considered "bugged", but now they add another level of annoyance to doing them.

 

[galahad2069]

These lower crimes below say 1000 CR need to be changed from Bounties to FINES! Make them payable ANYWHERE!

This^^

 

[Stigbob]

YES. PLEASE. GOD. FRONTIER. WHEN WILL YOU UNDERSTAND HOW DRAMATIC A DIFFERENCE PROPER STEALTH WILL MAKE TO YOUR GAME AND HOW MANY ISSUES IT WILL SOLVE.

lol

You can't post about stealth in block caps, it's just wrong.

 

[jasonbarron]

So basically just going by the Op's title Mr Ant is saying what's pretty much been said on this forum since 3.0 dropped.

No need to watch the vid in that case.

Well, you do get his ultra soothing voice if you watch the video, so that's a big plus.

 

[NeilF]

Sentiment of this thread seems to agree we should have a C&P system with ZERO significant consequences for shooting cops or civilians.

Seriously this is the saddest video Obsidian has ever created. His argument boiled down to:

1) but think of the poor stranded children with under 7 LY jump range!!
2) using map filters to locate interstellar factors is too complicated!

I normally don't post is these kinds of sad whine threads, but I think the people here need to collectively unbunch their pants and ask themselves if they really want a game without consequences for doing stupid things.

It's a shame you seemingly broke your rule then to post such a pointless, unfounded, straw man of a non-point


The argument being made is the new mechanic is contrived, ill considered, isn't effective at its primary goal, and worse still, risks making a game less fun due to how overbloated and clunky it is.

Maybe best to just return to your standard approach to these threads...

 

[Ziljan]

It's a shame you seemingly broke your rule then to post such a pointless, unfounded, straw man of a non-point


The argument being made is the new mechanic is contrived, ill considered, isn't effective at its primary goal, and worse still, risks making a game less fun due to how overbloated and clunky it is.

Maybe best to just return to your standard approach to these threads...

Unfounded? Did you watch the video in question? Granted there are other ideas in this thread that are constructive, but the OP is agreeing with and promoting a video that does none of these things. All Obsidian did was say that:

1) people who stock short range FSD modules can get stuck at IF (ignoring they made a bad outfitting choice)
2) friendly fire errors require a trip to IF to remedy (ignoring that the person was reckless with their bullets when innocents were in the area, and altered the BGS by transactionally increasing the crime rate)

I think a lot of people thought that the C&P system would only punish PVP, so they were all for it. But instead Frontier made sure that it was evenly distributed, both to provide more believable consequences for PVE crime (shooting at innocents and cops), and also to dissuade griefers from finding loopholes in the system through microaggressions.

Look, I am not saying that the C&P is perfect, but suggestions to fix it should go well beyond just saying "its too hard on the children" and include alternative ideas that also have real teeth. Otherwise, Frontier will just nerf the whole thing and we're back to square one.

 

[jasonbarron]

I think it's a little premature to equate losing your ship because you dared to equip too small of an FSD with flying without a rebuy. Honestly, I think the comparison is ridiculous. And i say that as a guy who a)doesn't accidentally hit NPC's and b)fly's with a proper FSD

 

[Schmack]

I feel as if FD wants everyone in the game to have some form of bad reputation so that the illegal missions will get more play. If you're a criminal you get a wide array of activities, but if you're trying to stay between the lines, you've got very few things you can do as a solo player.

 

[Ziljan]

I think it's a little premature to equate losing your ship because you dared to equip too small of an FSD with flying without a rebuy. Honestly, I think the comparison is ridiculous. And i say that as a guy who a)doesn't accidentally hit NPC's and b)fly's with a proper FSD

What is the effective difference? In both cases you run the risk of losing your ship. In both cases the loss was preventable by planning a build that wasn't so risky.

 

[Delilah]

Obsidian nails it as usual.

There is one clarification he skated over, however, that may provide direction moving forward.

While C&P was intended as the first step in elaborating criminal game-play, Karma was originally pitched as a separate mechanic to grapple with griefers seal clubbing in starter systems. For a variety of reasons Frontier decided to fold karma into C&P and thus we got notoriety, etc. To appear consistent and even-handed, Frontier applied this to both pve and pvp. And this is where things went south.

Frontier should therefore separate C&P from notoriety entirely.

C&P can be balanced with fewer infractions and crimes in pve, more fines instead of bounties and death sentences, more convenient means to pay off bounties and fines, etc.

The category of Karma should be revived and restricted to pvp only. Notoriety would be one Karma mechanic with others to be innovated down the pike for illicit ramming, etc. And Karma should be balanced with an eye to the protection of noobs, pvp in starter bubbles, malicious disruptions of charity events, and the like.

 

[Stigbob]

I think it's a little premature to equate losing your ship because you dared to equip too small of an FSD with flying without a rebuy. Honestly, I think the comparison is ridiculous. And i say that as a guy who a)doesn't accidentally hit NPC's and b)fly's with a proper FSD

The comparison is ridiculous the FSD thing is much funnier, no rebuy is people not paying attention but downgrading till you are stuck actually takes planning and effort.

 

[Ziljan]

more fines instead of bounties and death sentences

This part is correct and all that is needed imo.

Restricting C&P to PVP would be a huge mistake. First because it's possible to be just as "evil" to other players via PVE crime as it is through PVP crime, particularly in the BGS. And second, because doing dumb things needs to have consequences, otherwise it doesn't matter if we do the right thing or the wrong thing, everything is Ok and nothing has any meaning. WRONG. Even accidentally shooting a cop in real life would land you in prison. If it's ok in Elite, then that just makes the game more silly, think about it: Shooting a cop once or twice is Ok, but a parking violation is a capital offense?

 

[askavir]

In the end, C&P will end up being reduced, like many other things in this game before it (credits, fuel, repair, rearm, etc), to yet another pointless gimmick, and the game will keep being a bland and flavourless experience where nothing of note ever happens and nothing we do ever matters one yota...

But at least grinders, farmers and Mr. Magoo bounty hunters will be happy.

 

[jasonbarron]

What is the effective difference? In both cases you run the risk of losing your ship. In both cases the loss was preventable by planning a build that wasn't so risky.

To me the difference is that insurance & flying without a rebuy is a well known consequence and has been drilled over and over and over ad nauseum into people's skulls from the instant they start out in a Sidewinder in Erevate, whereas having some new mechanic sprung on them with pretty stealthy consequences for doing something that has been acceptable since the game launched is overly punitive. I highly doubt if Fdev intended people lose their ships, or became stranded, so it's a moot point in my view; it'll get fixed at some point. If the system still works this way a year from now and people are still running afoul of it, then I may be willing to reconsider.

The comparison is ridiculous the FSD thing is much funnier, no rebuy is people not paying attention but downgrading till you are stuck actually takes planning and effort.

That's just your prejudice against combat pilots talking. Somebody losing their ship over a 200 credit accidental fire accident is overly harsh IMO, and certainly not funny.

 

[Avaddon]

Just want to clear this up before it goes any further. I'm still very much in love with Elite Dangerous - it's right in the top of my best games of all time. I also have a lot of faith in the future of Elite, although I perhaps don't express that quite as often as I once used to. But even this month alone I have released at least 6+ videos that are positive in nature, and one in particular that highlights some of the best (in my opinion) elements of the game.

I suspect that these critical videos stand out a bit more, because they are precisely that. They are critical.

Regarding the other issues for various content creators, I do understand how they feel, Cmdr Plater and DTEA raise some important issues that affect them directly. However, that said, I don't feel any frustration towards the game or Frontier.

When I make a video like this, it's because I'm calling it like I see it, whilst trying to put a balanced view point across. I never assume that I'm in the right, and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me. And more importantly I don't make these videos simply because I'm "following a trend" or "following the crowd". These are my views, and my thoughts. If I feel there's a problem with the game, I'm not going to be in denial about that.

For those that don't watch the videos - or don't like them, that is totally fine. It's your call.

Always appreciate everyone's feedback. And it always means so much to me that people enjoy my videos and continue to watch them.

Was it just me- or did anyone else read this using OAs voice in their head??????