Odyssey - Optimisation/Performance and UI (Galaxy & System Map) Feedback
Overall thoughts
The new Galaxy UI was designed with a looks-over-functionality mindset, and is fundamentally flawed from the grounds up. I am by no means an expert, but I have some experience in both game design and UI design, and that experience tells me one thing: this UI is in some aspects the embodiment of what not to do.
Specific Issues
Enjoy the list.
While not in the template, you asked for feedback and feedback isn't only negatives
The new Galaxy UI was designed with a looks-over-functionality mindset, and is fundamentally flawed from the grounds up. I am by no means an expert, but I have some experience in both game design and UI design, and that experience tells me one thing: this UI is in some aspects the embodiment of what not to do.
Specific Issues
Enjoy the list.
- Missing Functionality and Information.
Overall, information and functionality is missing. Please see (among others) post #36 for a list.
Fix: Add the things back in a suitable way
- The interface is confusing to old players, who are not used to the new interface. Sometimes changes are necessary, but in these cases, user friendliness is of the utmost importance
Fix: Redesign the interface with this in mind.
- Buttons don't have clear descriptions of what they do at all times. Hovering over a button shows a description, however one should not have to go through every button on the screen to find the one needed. Never design a UI with the expectation that players will memorize the relevant icons.
Fix: Whenever the mouse is moved close to the buttons, make the text based description show up
- Map sometimes takes long to open/load
Fix: Optimizations!
- Some menu buttons are out of logical order
Examples include:- Route Settings should be closer to Map Mode, as their functionality is relevant.
- Open System Map and Plot Course are vertically far away. Note that players often have an easier time identifying different buttons horizontally, compared to vertical. This is also why text is usually written horizontally, not vertically in most languages.
Fix: Reorder the buttons
- The interface requires too much user input to navigate.
A good user interface is fast and efficient to use, while also being a visually good design.- The current UI has too many categories, often with subcategories, in order to get what you want.
- In order to access the most basic of useful information, the user has to navigate through menus to get information that should be presented at the get-go.
- There is duplicate functionality in the UI, making it more cluttered than necessary.
Examples include:- System Ships list. This can already be accessed on the left.
- System Missions list. This can already be accessed on the left.
- The buttons for general map interaction is on the left, while all buttons relevant to a system is all the way on the other side of the screen on the right. While not immediately a problem, the practice of separating buttons on opposite sides of the screen that only show up when something is selected is annoying and can be confusing to the user who, at first glance, expects all the buttons to be on the left where, at first, the only visible buttons were.
- The map filtering requires an additional click, compared to Horizons. You must now enable the category, as well as applying filter to route.
Fix: Redesign the interface with this in mind.
- The interface can at some times take up significant space on the screen.
This is an issue as it obscures the map.
Fix: An example of something that worked is horizons UI. While it wasn't without its flaws, it is a good example.
- The removal of a popup tooltip on a star system and moving all related buttons to the right side slows down the speed at which one can navigate the galaxy map.
Fix: Add it back.
- The constant presence of fleet carriers on the system map is cluttering and results in it being harder to identify stations.
This is an issue that has been lifted for a long time.
Fix: Allow us to filter for friend/squad/private group fleet carriers, as well as filter away any carrier that we can't land at.
- No names for friends in systems. It shows an icon, but nothing else, in any info panel.
Fix: Add this information somewhere convenient.
- Bookmark management has been significantly worsened. Yet another menu one has to go through to delete bookmarks.
Fix: Revert to Horizons bookmark management
- The selected object circle that shows up when selecting a system/planet/star/station etc is sometimes off alignment.
Fix: Fix the script for alignment
- The color scheme of icons on objects is not differentiated enough. Starting systems, bookmarks and engineers all have the same hue of orange. This makes it difficult to immediately differentiate between the different icons.
Fix: An old version of horizons had blue bookmarks and purple engineers. This, or a similarly differentiated color scheme, would resolve this issue.
- FSD Boosting options are non-functional (Bug)
Fix: This is a bug in the code. Programmers get on it! I'm sure someone has made an issue on the tracker already.
- Focusing on a star system prevents user input while camera pans.
This gets annoying if you accidentally click on a star system.
Fix: Allow user input while the camera pans, and allow moving camera manually to cancel the pan.
- Pressing ESC in the map opens pause menu. In almost every other menu in the game, the Menu Key (default ESC) can be used to exit out of interface menus, such as cockpit menus etc.
Fix: Only allow opening the "pause" menu when no other menus are open.
- The system map button is not visible for systems where no map data is present. This changes the layout of buttons, which should be avoided.
Fix: Make this button greyed out in these cases, instead of not being rendered.
While not in the template, you asked for feedback and feedback isn't only negatives
- New search bar and auto complete.
This has a few issues still but its addition is a definite plus. - Ability to hold to plot course to a system or object.
- The new color scheme for the general UI elements is far more in line with the rest of the game.
- Removal of information irrelevant to the map, such as credit balance
- While not always useful, the copy system name is a nice thing to have.
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Galaxy / System Map UI is ok for me. i dont do much travel now... not is it a step back from the previous.. why whould you do that???
BUT new station UI, shipyard, outfitting menu is horrible.. That was absolutely unnecesary change - who asked you to do? you just broke something that was working well.
but hey - we all know why its was done - main reasons - to make it console ready, second is to add huge ass Ship extras and design sections which take third of the usefull screenspace where players could not miss a chance to spend real money on buying that ARXes (by the way did not Braben said year ago that Elite will not include any ingame payments?) i will not be surprised if it will end with buying ships upgrades - thus all that current grind madness to get some upgrade you have to spend hours and hours.
pretty sure you are happy to help players to save time for their money)))) would not that be great))
also after hotfix 3 - FPS dropped even worse - in my case at least 30 % in some cases even 50. what is going on over there?
BUT new station UI, shipyard, outfitting menu is horrible.. That was absolutely unnecesary change - who asked you to do? you just broke something that was working well.
but hey - we all know why its was done - main reasons - to make it console ready, second is to add huge ass Ship extras and design sections which take third of the usefull screenspace where players could not miss a chance to spend real money on buying that ARXes (by the way did not Braben said year ago that Elite will not include any ingame payments?) i will not be surprised if it will end with buying ships upgrades - thus all that current grind madness to get some upgrade you have to spend hours and hours.
pretty sure you are happy to help players to save time for their money)))) would not that be great))
also after hotfix 3 - FPS dropped even worse - in my case at least 30 % in some cases even 50. what is going on over there?
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There is a huge Issue. Galaxy map doesn't apply fastest route or FSD cone boost... Bravo!
...wrong topic but yet:
Moving on-foot in star port does not allow to use back pack. Now when I come to bartender or mission givers... how do I suppose to know which things are illegal to sell it out or/and if I have that item (like power reg) to accept mission?
What I say, once you on station you don't have access to your bag ...really? I need to take lift to my ship to check list there and see what is illegal
Moving on-foot in star port does not allow to use back pack. Now when I come to bartender or mission givers... how do I suppose to know which things are illegal to sell it out or/and if I have that item (like power reg) to accept mission?
What I say, once you on station you don't have access to your bag ...really? I need to take lift to my ship to check list there and see what is illegal
After 14 pages I would imagine that my small input will not be noticed - and fair enough really. I just want to say a couple of things for the record.
1. Thanks Bruce for updating us. This is a relatively new phenomenon and I appreciate it - to hear that our specific concerns are actually being heard and, even further, being thought about. We aren't going to offer detailed and considered feedback if we feel that it is all a waste of time, right?
2. I have been quite harsh on occasions and for that I offer a rather belated apology. It's only because we are passionate about the game and frustrated with a perceived level of "ignore". I'm still playing Horizons - I just can't bear the station services UI - it's that bad - to me. Only me - I get that.
3. My suggestion is to, initially, take a Use Case approach. What are the typical reasons to access the map - why is the user here and what is it that they are trying to achieve? For example, one of my personal uses is, when I first log in, to fire up the map so that I can see at a glance where I am, what is close by, and do I have any missions active that either need attending to or handing in. It gets my head in the game, so to speak. The old map gives me that instantly, at a glance, with large and easy to see icons. Not so the new one. Another example might be - got a mission and want to plot a course. Simple. Don't necessarily want to study the detailed history of the place - just see - have I been here before or not? That tells me whether I need to visit the nav beacon or not. And with one click to plot a course. And so on.
1. Thanks Bruce for updating us. This is a relatively new phenomenon and I appreciate it - to hear that our specific concerns are actually being heard and, even further, being thought about. We aren't going to offer detailed and considered feedback if we feel that it is all a waste of time, right?
2. I have been quite harsh on occasions and for that I offer a rather belated apology. It's only because we are passionate about the game and frustrated with a perceived level of "ignore". I'm still playing Horizons - I just can't bear the station services UI - it's that bad - to me. Only me - I get that.
3. My suggestion is to, initially, take a Use Case approach. What are the typical reasons to access the map - why is the user here and what is it that they are trying to achieve? For example, one of my personal uses is, when I first log in, to fire up the map so that I can see at a glance where I am, what is close by, and do I have any missions active that either need attending to or handing in. It gets my head in the game, so to speak. The old map gives me that instantly, at a glance, with large and easy to see icons. Not so the new one. Another example might be - got a mission and want to plot a course. Simple. Don't necessarily want to study the detailed history of the place - just see - have I been here before or not? That tells me whether I need to visit the nav beacon or not. And with one click to plot a course. And so on.
As a lot of others have mentioned the major issues with the UI, My biggest complaint is lack of information provided about similar content in various places, the faction data in system map for instance.
I would really like to be able to see the same information on the factions "tab" of the system map as I do when seated in my ship and looking on the right side panel.
The current setup requires that i go to my ship to check the "progress" bars of the economic/security status as well as any war progress (victory, close victory, defeat, etc...) when I should just be able to click on factions in the system map, have it open the menu as it currently does to show the factions, then click on an individual faction to see one layer "deeper" and have either a drop down menu open to display details or open a new window as it did to list the factions to display the details about the factions status.
looking forward to all the fixes and improvements! Thanks for all you do!
I would really like to be able to see the same information on the factions "tab" of the system map as I do when seated in my ship and looking on the right side panel.
The current setup requires that i go to my ship to check the "progress" bars of the economic/security status as well as any war progress (victory, close victory, defeat, etc...) when I should just be able to click on factions in the system map, have it open the menu as it currently does to show the factions, then click on an individual faction to see one layer "deeper" and have either a drop down menu open to display details or open a new window as it did to list the factions to display the details about the factions status.
looking forward to all the fixes and improvements! Thanks for all you do!
First of all may I say thanks that you are listening to us and asking us for our feedback again in a focused and meaningful way. We wish all the hardworking team a speedy resolution through this and can't wait to make it a success with you. This will not be an exhaustive list, more to come.
Overall thoughts:
Specific Issues:
1 - Curently using a HOTAS with an Xbox Controller means that holding down the A button doesn't work on the HOTAS meaning you need the two control methods to operate one menu which is unacceptable, I'm pretty sure this is a bug and hopefully not a feature
2 - To select a bookmarked destination (HOTAS ONLY) in HORIZONS takes roughly 7/8 clicks + 1 menu navigation, the same process in ODYSSEY takes !0/11 clicks + 3 menus to navigate this is too slow and messy. This could be sped up for Odyssey by using the two controllers at the same time or fixing issue number 1 above.
3 - Clearing a plotted course in HORIZONS is lightning fast and is only 5 clicks. ODYSSEY can match that IF point 1 is fixed, if not it is horrendously slow and messy and takes 8 clicks + 2 menus.
4 - The vertical menus on the left and the right have breaks in them that halt constant input from a directional control, so your input stops three times before getting to the lower selections. This slows things down and is INFURIATING.
5 - System Map and plotting a course function are too far down the order on the right vertical menu. These are the most used and should be higher.
6 - The lack of mouseover info is terrible. When moving the cursor over a system before targeting it in HORIZONS you can see:
Distance in lightyears
Powerplay info
Star Type
Region
Allegience
Population
Government
State
Economy
In ODYSSEY when your cursor hovers over a system you see... Nothing! it's really no good at relaying quick information.
Suggested Fixes:
1. Make the HOTAS able to perform the long hold function to quickly plot a course, this will help immensely!
2. Fix number 1 maybe find a way to make it snappier especially in the way you back out of the menu.
3. Again fix point 1 for a start but my personal suggestion is to have a dedicated 'Cancel Route' function somewhere near the top of the left hand menu, it will be super useful and only one click away without having to navigate back to where you were routed to and unclick through menus.
4. Just get rid of those breaks, we want to spend as little time as possible in a menu. Let the input continue to scroll down and up freely.
5. Easy fix this one, Move system map function and plot course function to the top of the choices on the right hand vertical menu.
6. Borrow the current system from HORIZONS and let a mouseover event show at the very LEAST Distance, Population, Star Class, State, Powerplay, Economy.
Thank you for listening to us. We are really here to help make this game we love better.
Sorry forgot to tick reply so have to tag you instead @Bruce G
Overall thoughts:
- Clunky and not quick when using a HOTAS and Controller setup
- Nested Menus slow the process down but i can see why you did it and time will tell if it's an improvement
- information isn't at your fingertips and you have to go digging
- I actually quite like it and will get used to it but it seriously needs tweaking and added functionality
Specific Issues:
1 - Curently using a HOTAS with an Xbox Controller means that holding down the A button doesn't work on the HOTAS meaning you need the two control methods to operate one menu which is unacceptable, I'm pretty sure this is a bug and hopefully not a feature
2 - To select a bookmarked destination (HOTAS ONLY) in HORIZONS takes roughly 7/8 clicks + 1 menu navigation, the same process in ODYSSEY takes !0/11 clicks + 3 menus to navigate this is too slow and messy. This could be sped up for Odyssey by using the two controllers at the same time or fixing issue number 1 above.
3 - Clearing a plotted course in HORIZONS is lightning fast and is only 5 clicks. ODYSSEY can match that IF point 1 is fixed, if not it is horrendously slow and messy and takes 8 clicks + 2 menus.
4 - The vertical menus on the left and the right have breaks in them that halt constant input from a directional control, so your input stops three times before getting to the lower selections. This slows things down and is INFURIATING.
5 - System Map and plotting a course function are too far down the order on the right vertical menu. These are the most used and should be higher.
6 - The lack of mouseover info is terrible. When moving the cursor over a system before targeting it in HORIZONS you can see:
Distance in lightyears
Powerplay info
Star Type
Region
Allegience
Population
Government
State
Economy
In ODYSSEY when your cursor hovers over a system you see... Nothing! it's really no good at relaying quick information.
Suggested Fixes:
1. Make the HOTAS able to perform the long hold function to quickly plot a course, this will help immensely!
2. Fix number 1 maybe find a way to make it snappier especially in the way you back out of the menu.
3. Again fix point 1 for a start but my personal suggestion is to have a dedicated 'Cancel Route' function somewhere near the top of the left hand menu, it will be super useful and only one click away without having to navigate back to where you were routed to and unclick through menus.
4. Just get rid of those breaks, we want to spend as little time as possible in a menu. Let the input continue to scroll down and up freely.
5. Easy fix this one, Move system map function and plot course function to the top of the choices on the right hand vertical menu.
6. Borrow the current system from HORIZONS and let a mouseover event show at the very LEAST Distance, Population, Star Class, State, Powerplay, Economy.
Thank you for listening to us. We are really here to help make this game we love better.
Sorry forgot to tick reply so have to tag you instead @Bruce G
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For what it's worth:
Galaxy map:
System map:
2. Has anyone discovered it
3. Has anyone mapped it
4. what does it feature (terraformable, biological, geological)?
5. What features have I discovered/explored? (This should be shown after having it mapped. Display they types of geological and biological features present, and which ones I've explored)
Planetary map:
Galaxy map:
- Big step backwards!
- It takes me longer to plot a course for myself or the carrier, as I can't see distances from the point of origin at simple glance.
- Selecting a stellar body is convoluted. Like many others said, it takes twice as much time now to get to the "open system" screen.
System map:
- All the planetary information is spread over 2 tabs, none of which can be selected to open by default.
- What I want to know:
2. Has anyone discovered it
3. Has anyone mapped it
4. what does it feature (terraformable, biological, geological)?
5. What features have I discovered/explored? (This should be shown after having it mapped. Display they types of geological and biological features present, and which ones I've explored)
Planetary map:
- There shouldn't be satelite crash sites and settlements 3000LY outside the bubble. This is just weird.
- Distress beacons on 10 out of 20 planets is just as bad
Overall: Mostly negative, i only see very few ideas of improvement compared to the old UI, all with lacking execution IMO.
Issues:
-Much more mouse movement required due to the two side split
-Removal of the "Tooltip" like context menu
-No text, icons only = confusing. Even after 50+ hours i still have no idea what each icon represents.
-Many graphic elements are too large and instead of an visual enhancement, they block information.
-Too many hidden context menus, the old UI had one unified dropdown for that. Not perfect, but better than the current one.
-Search bar is very well hidden in the galaxy at times, low contrast and yet another display position.
-Search feature needs clicking on the system to target it, better would be to hold enter to target
-Also no more cycling through search results
-Changed lots of colors, confusing for old & new players due to guides being outdated.
-No way to see which friend is in what which system.
Suggestions (In issue order & see picture):
-Move all buttons back to one side (preferably left/right), and merge many of them together. Reduces mouse movement drastically.
-Reintroduce the tooltip menu
-Either use more informative icons, add text directly below the icons, or replace them with text alltogether.
-Reduce the size of graphic elements, while pretty, the primary function of UI should be usability and not cosmetics.
-Either bring back the dropdown or add a selection matrix, this is probably the best of both.
-Move search bar closer to buttons & give it a very dark background
-Add these features back
-Same as above
-Revert to the old color scheme, it worked well
-Add that feature back
Of course my picture is FAR! from perfect, but i believe that it combines the best of both worlds. The combined menus
may be a horrible idea though, and the mini icons are probably too confusing. However, i find it much better structured
than the EDO menu, while having all of its features.
Issues:
-Much more mouse movement required due to the two side split
-Removal of the "Tooltip" like context menu
-No text, icons only = confusing. Even after 50+ hours i still have no idea what each icon represents.
-Many graphic elements are too large and instead of an visual enhancement, they block information.
-Too many hidden context menus, the old UI had one unified dropdown for that. Not perfect, but better than the current one.
-Search bar is very well hidden in the galaxy at times, low contrast and yet another display position.
-Search feature needs clicking on the system to target it, better would be to hold enter to target
-Also no more cycling through search results
-Changed lots of colors, confusing for old & new players due to guides being outdated.
-No way to see which friend is in what which system.
Suggestions (In issue order & see picture):
-Move all buttons back to one side (preferably left/right), and merge many of them together. Reduces mouse movement drastically.
-Reintroduce the tooltip menu
-Either use more informative icons, add text directly below the icons, or replace them with text alltogether.
-Reduce the size of graphic elements, while pretty, the primary function of UI should be usability and not cosmetics.
-Either bring back the dropdown or add a selection matrix, this is probably the best of both.
-Move search bar closer to buttons & give it a very dark background
-Add these features back
-Same as above
-Revert to the old color scheme, it worked well
-Add that feature back
Of course my picture is FAR! from perfect, but i believe that it combines the best of both worlds. The combined menus
may be a horrible idea though, and the mini icons are probably too confusing. However, i find it much better structured
than the EDO menu, while having all of its features.
Oh, 1 more HUGE + for system map - it shows distance from your current position to selection instead plain from star in horizons. And related HUGE - -- when you plot jump by carrier ...guess what? It shows distance from commander's position, not from carrier! - Carrier can be operated remotely! So those 2 positions can be different.
How useful are the ship and mission tabs to you guys in galaxy map? Something I never missed in Horizons, now on the very top out of like 20 new tabs.
And why is the map spinning when using the fuel slider? A feature I use regularly. Worked fine in Horizons.
What's driving me nuts is the "hold" click to lock to target. It's too slow.....and the highlighted point isnt the location of your target but changes based on perspective (what?), this is, if you manage to target the system you actually want in the first place.......zooom, zooom, zoooom, hold........
I want a beta tester galaxy map rank progression. Being an Elite plotter might compensate for the trouble and would really feel like an achievement.
And why is the map spinning when using the fuel slider? A feature I use regularly. Worked fine in Horizons.
What's driving me nuts is the "hold" click to lock to target. It's too slow.....and the highlighted point isnt the location of your target but changes based on perspective (what?), this is, if you manage to target the system you actually want in the first place.......zooom, zooom, zoooom, hold........
I want a beta tester galaxy map rank progression. Being an Elite plotter might compensate for the trouble and would really feel like an achievement.
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What i really miss from the Horizons system map was the mouse-over. Particularly for the distance from star info. In Odyssey you have to click each body and then click the right hand information button to see this which is a pain if your checking multiple bodies in a system. Although i do like that i no longer need to fight with the mouseover and try to click on it to target something before it dissappears. So suggestion bring the mouseover back for body info, but keep the hold to target function that we have now.
Also, on the planet map within the system map, please make the day/night indication accurate. its very annoying to select a destination that you think will be in the day time by looking a the planet map, only to find its incorrect and completely in the dark when you get there.
Also, on the planet map within the system map, please make the day/night indication accurate. its very annoying to select a destination that you think will be in the day time by looking a the planet map, only to find its incorrect and completely in the dark when you get there.
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Im a little shocked that you guys are unware of the performance issues. If you truly are completely stuck for ideas, here are some steps.
1. Get david brabens home computer and bring it into the lab.
2. Get a build of hotfix 2 and replicate his claims. StuartGT's thread in dd has some great tips.
3. Bonus: Note the visual quality and performance in hotfix 2. Apply hotfix 3. Note the visual quality and performance. Its not completely bad but very interesting.
You guys might be mentally avoiding the problem that "industry standard" optimisations have not been done, given you got it to work anyway to get through your release management checkboxes. While working with this issue and players, it would be good to keep that in mind, because people are aware of this... just taking the corporate line looks like blinders and might cause more damage than any repairs you hope to achieve.
1. Get david brabens home computer and bring it into the lab.
2. Get a build of hotfix 2 and replicate his claims. StuartGT's thread in dd has some great tips.
3. Bonus: Note the visual quality and performance in hotfix 2. Apply hotfix 3. Note the visual quality and performance. Its not completely bad but very interesting.
You guys might be mentally avoiding the problem that "industry standard" optimisations have not been done, given you got it to work anyway to get through your release management checkboxes. While working with this issue and players, it would be good to keep that in mind, because people are aware of this... just taking the corporate line looks like blinders and might cause more damage than any repairs you hope to achieve.
Overall, I enjoy the new Galaxy Map / System Map UI. The only problems I have with it are the slow loading. In Horizons, the best part about the UI was it's snappy, quick, and predictable feel. In Odyssey, it seems as if it's moved in the direction of the Star Citizen map, slow and less responsive.
As a final point, all the planets are dim on the system map! I loved the bright vivid colors of the Horizons map. I don't know if this was intentional or not, but I really preferred the look of the previous Horizons type.
Great work with Odyssey, it has much potential both now and in the future.
Reese
Optimisation : Make the game brighter please ! Not everyone is playing in a cave with no lights. I know space is dark but come on, I could as well turn my screen off and it would be the same result.. I see more of a graphic downgrade than anything else. I'll be back to playing Horizon meanwhile, if it ever gets fixed or even considered an issue by Frontier.
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