Odyssey would be amazing if it had ship interiors.

Interesting idea (although it obviously doesn't scale well and is hard to maintain).
I prefer that approach to any kind of TTS. In fact I cannot stand being talked to by a TTS engine. The standard voices you get with Windows that EDDI can use are just terrible for me. I started with EDDI, but that is actually the reason why I started buying HCS stuff. Even more advanced TTS voices sound very robotic and unnatural unless you do some heavy editing. HCS Astra is done with Ivona Amy (my guess is all those labeled as "Performed by CLASSIFIED" are actually TTS voices), but it is all prerecorded and heavily edited so it sounds natural. Even better voices like Amy sound robotic through a basic TTS engine as the one Windows provides.

The obvious downside is the maintenance that has to be done as the game progresses.
 
I prefer that approach to any kind of TTS. In fact I cannot stand being talked to by a TTS engine. The standard voices you get with Windows that EDDI can use are just terrible for me. I started with EDDI, but that is actually the reason why I started buying HCS stuff. Even more advanced TTS voices sound very robotic and unnatural unless you do some heavy editing. HCS Astra is done with Ivona Amy (my guess is all those labeled as "Performed by CLASSIFIED" are actually TTS voices), but it is all prerecorded and heavily edited so it sounds natural. Even better voices like Amy sound robotic through a basic TTS engine as the one Windows provides.

The obvious downside is the maintenance that has to be done as the game progresses.
I know what you mean for sure ... but I work with big data and associated scalability issues for a living so the idea of something like ..

if (text == "All that tasty cargo") {
play("all_that_tasty_cargo.wav")
}

.. fills me with absolute horror! :eek:

P.S. oops - sorry, this has rather gone off topic and I know everyone is desparate to continue talking about ship interiors - sorry! 😜
 
I know what you mean for sure ... but I work with big data and associated scalability issues for a living so the idea of something like ..

if (text == "All that tasty cargo") {
play("all_that_tasty_cargo.wav")
}

.. fills me with absolute horror! :eek:

P.S. oops - sorry, this has rather gone off topic and I know everyone is desparate to continue talking about ship interiors - sorry! 😜
Yeah, playing a dedicated wav file for every voice line is certainly a brute force approach. But I don't think the basic TTS engine we have access to allows for acted-out voice lines like the ones of NPC Vocalizer. I mean, they have lines where they actually sing out battle cries. Try to do that with simple TTS :). Or in case of HCS: Try to replicate Captain Kirk with a simple TTS engine. The quality of the final product is just so much better, even if it is brute force.

Oh, and to be on topic: Ship interiors can nibble on my big toe ;).
 
Yeah, playing a dedicated wav file for every voice line is certainly a brute force approach. But I don't think the basic TTS engine we have access to allows for acted-out voice lines like the ones of NPC Vocalizer. I mean, they have lines where they actually sing out battle cries. Try to do that with simple TTS :). Or in case of HCS: Try to replicate Captain Kirk with a simple TTS engine. The quality of the final product is just so much better, even if it is brute force.
I forget which Windows voice I use for EDDI now (it was one of the free ones) but it's not too terrible.

Source: https://youtu.be/vEWXWXRzegE


Oh, and to be on topic: Ship interiors can nibble on my big toe ;).

:LOL:
 
I forget which Windows voice I use for EDDI now (it was one of the free ones) but it's not too terrible.

Source: https://youtu.be/vEWXWXRzegE




:LOL:
I know I am being picky here, but I can't stand the monotonous tone of TTS voices. I am using NPC Vocalizer and HCS much more for their entertainment than the informational value. Not to sound like a HCS fanboy (which I probably classify for), but there is nothing more hilarious than HCS Kate asking "Wanna play slot my sidewinder?" at the most inopportune moment. Can't do that (convincingly) with a TTS voice :).
 
Odyssey is already amazing:


1.jpg

It doesn't needs Ship Interiors to ruin its Space experience. Or have people forgot how big of a FPS dive there is between Space and Ground?
Do people seriosly want to have 40 FPS in Space too? Or beeing forced to spend money on latest GPU's and CPU's just to play same game they could before on older systems?
I haven't seen a single stable Online Space Sim game that managed to implement Ship Interiors. It's probably just not possible, specially on older game engine like ED is using.
 
So much could be done with interiors. I would love it.
Combat on board, emergency damage repairs

Salvage old wrecks of ships, discover thargoids in Old ships.
Data ports of old spooky ships.

Thefr of modules from inside people's ships.
Almost all of these could be done with FC interiors and we have nothing.
 
Odyssey is already amazing:


View attachment 356780
It doesn't needs Ship Interiors to ruin its Space experience. Or have people forgot how big of a FPS dive there is between Space and Ground?
Do people seriosly want to have 40 FPS in Space too? Or beeing forced to spend money on latest GPU's and CPU's just to play same game they could before on older systems?
I haven't seen a single stable Online Space Sim game that managed to implement Ship Interiors. It's probably just not possible, specially on older game engine like ED is using.
Even in the best possible screenshot you can get in Odyssey, you can still see the glaring issues with the spikey mountains in the background. I could pick my teeth with the spikes on those peaks.
 
So... you say that there is absolutely nothing to do in Odyssey (for you) and that you are not interested in on-foot gameplay at all.

Yet you want ship interiors.

Yep.

Do some hangar running (in stations or carriers) and check the alternate mechanics of accessing UI - aka the station/carriers on-foot UI.

I do. Every.. single.. time i play. I go back to my carrier, hop out, and log out in the bar, or on the bridge or captains room if i'm queing a jump. I start the carrier mangament interface from the monitor in the captains room, or the chair if im going to wait for the jump.. every.. single... time.

I absolutely love it, it belongs in ships.

It looks like you're really bored, and there are no threads left to post a white knight gif in, but try harder.
But, no - Odyssey would be amazing if it had ship interiors.

View attachment 356749
 
I'm aware of at least a couple of 3rd party tools for vocalising npc chatter.

TTS4ED

NPC Vocaliser
I'll look into these. My dream is to use ChatGPT along with a top-notch TTS engine with a tunable voice (allowing many different voices) to generate always-unique dialog.

I will give Frontier credit, when they added voice acting to combat zones and installation / megaship encounters, it really amped up the verisimilitude. Sure, it's the same guys saying the same things (I think they could have had a bigger pool of spoken lines to pull from RNG), but it's still way better than text-only comms from a pirate or an email from my passengers.

Imagine if Pirates of the Caribbean had Jack Sparrow remained silent, sending all his threats and witticisms via phone text. :ROFLMAO:
 
Now that I've been sucked back into Legacy, I'm tempted (if time ever allows it) to experiment with additional modifications and plugins to see how I might be able to spice things up. For example, do NPC messages automatically post to the journal? Just being able to hear a passenger talk to me rather than having to read a text email would be a big improvement, even if I can't see those passengers boarding - there's only so much a modder of a closed game can do.

Here's some behind the curtain info..

Well before elite i wanted a better text to speech engine.. and being inspired by siri as it had just came out.. went and did some research. Pretty soon, i found "ivona". At some point amazon bought them out, but it looks like you can still buy a license for yourself (like i did years ago from their company) for personal use. Its also the same voice used in Subnautica. Anyway.. i think frontier picked british amy.. i bought emma myself. With a bit of scripting on the journal file should be very possible.
 
I'll look into these. My dream is to use ChatGPT along with a top-notch TTS engine with a tunable voice (allowing many different voices) to generate always-unique dialog.

I will give Frontier credit, when they added voice acting to combat zones and installation / megaship encounters, it really amped up the verisimilitude. Sure, it's the same guys saying the same things (I think they could have had a bigger pool of spoken lines to pull from RNG), but it's still way better than text-only comms from a pirate or an email from my passengers.

Imagine if Pirates of the Caribbean had Jack Sparrow remained silent, sending all his threats and witticisms via phone text. :ROFLMAO:

You might be interested in this video

 
Ship interiors would not need to be so complete right away. Minimum ship interiors would be a corridor for walking from cockpit to airlock, and a staircase or a ladder for getting to the ground. The CMDR could be tied to the pilot's seat when the ship is moving. I would be very glad with that, because it would greatly improve the feeling of moving physically in and out from my ship.
Oh it all sound so simple. All you need to do is paint a corridor, have a door with a button and bingo ... ship interiors!!

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

  • The cabin space has no collision mesh. If you were able to get out of your seat you would fall through the floor.
  • The character that is sat in the seat of your ship does not have the capabilities of the similar looking character that walks around stations and planets. Yes its hands react to you moving controls and a random number generator causes it to twitch a bit, but no real movement. That would need to taken out and replaced by the fully functioning model.
  • The view from the cockpit is a single point of view. In essence a camera on a gimbal. As such it has limited view capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised if it is optimised for that limited view. Take fleet carrier. You can wander round them and look out the window. What is the one thing you cannot do while doing that? That's right, you cannot move the fleet carrier. Why? Because a fixed camera view inside a moving ship or a moving camera view inside static ship are a lot easier than a moving camera inside a moving ship.
  • You then have to unbolt the logic that has been there since the beginning and bolt in the new logic. I can guarantee to you that that code is a heap of spaghetti code, with little or no documentation and everyone who has worked on it has left the company.
  • There needs to be a transition between the cockpit and the outside world. Probably the best way to do this is how fleet carrier interiors work. Move you into a lift, load/switch the context while you are in the lift, open the doors onto a new playing field. The problem with the cockpit is that it is not the current context, it just looks like it is. The current context is the current system. You just happen to be viewing it from a fixed point with a fake cockpit façade layered in the way. So the problem is that you want to move from the star system / planet landing context to a walkable cockpit context and vice versa. You need some form of transition, whether that is a animation of you standing up or a fade to black.
  • You need to add rules into the logic to stop you leaving the seat when it is not sensible to.
  • You need to add code to allow the player to interact with the button on the door and code to animate the door.
  • The lighting model assumes a fixed location of the camera (your character's face). Move the view point and the lighting changes. Obstacles get between the viewpoint and the light source. Fine if the light source is fixed and the camera moves, or the light source moves and the camera stays put, but when they both move......
  • You finally get to the steps of your ship. However, you have the possibility of landing on uneven surfaces with rocks, plants and other stuff in the way. So the landing logic needs to be updated to take into account the terrain around the stairs. We have all had problems getting the SRV under the ship because there is a bit of lumpy ground in the way. Now magnify that by an order of magnitude cos the stairs extend to the middle of a large plant or lead to the edge of a cliff. Or the stairs stop a rock. You can jump down from the rock, but you cant easily climb back up again. Sure you can jump, but does that break the immersion?
Having implemented all of that you can now get out of your seat, interact with nothing but a single button. It takes you ten times longer to get out of your ship. The immersionists are so happy (well they are for the first few times). The rest of the game players are fed up cos it takes then 10 times longer to do stuff, particularly if you are exploring and constantly jumping in and out of your ship. You have now spends loads of money developing these code changes. You have made a small fraction of the gamers happy for a few minutes, annoyed the rest and brought in zero revenue. Never mind you can always advertise this as the game that allows you to stand up and press a button. That is bound to bring in new customers. Is there new game play? Not really, it looks pretty and its kind of cool for ten minutes. Does it add to the grind of the game? Absolutely. Does it add to the functionality of the game? Nah.

Now if they added EVA with ship repairs, more interiors to buildings we can already get into, new interiors for buildings we are locked out of, caves to explore, more dangers and things to interact with inside ships, buildings and alien structures, then that would be adding game play. That would be worth the development, but it would take much longer. In the meantime the bug fixing would slow down. Standing up and pushing a button, sorry not my idea of fun. For those of you who play SC., is the getting out of bed and exiting your hotel room at the beginning of the game the best part of the game? I doubt it. Is it cool the first time you see it? Probably. Would you like to do it all day long? Nah.
 
I like the suggestion a lot, the more I think about it the more I think it would bring a lot of 'life' to the game that would be of benefit to it.

Just in case you decided not to.. see the video here.. just a little too good..

 
You might be interested in this video

I've seen that! It's pretty cool, though the voice is a bit uncanny valley. I think they would be further ahead not trying to replicate the original voice.

I'm definitely not claiming a patent on the idea, as there's plenty of "prior art" out there. I just prefer writing my own 3rd party apps, both from a security standpoint and a "It's fun to program!" standpoint.
 
Oh it all sound so simple. All you need to do is paint a corridor, have a door with a button and bingo ... ship interiors!!

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

  • The cabin space has no collision mesh. If you were able to get out of your seat you would fall through the floor.
  • The character that is sat in the seat of your ship does not have the capabilities of the similar looking character that walks around stations and planets. Yes its hands react to you moving controls and a random number generator causes it to twitch a bit, but no real movement. That would need to taken out and replaced by the fully functioning model.
  • The view from the cockpit is a single point of view. In essence a camera on a gimbal. As such it has limited view capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised if it is optimised for that limited view. Take fleet carrier. You can wander round them and look out the window. What is the one thing you cannot do while doing that? That's right, you cannot move the fleet carrier. Why? Because a fixed camera view inside a moving ship or a moving camera view inside static ship are a lot easier than a moving camera inside a moving ship.
  • You then have to unbolt the logic that has been there since the beginning and bolt in the new logic. I can guarantee to you that that code is a heap of spaghetti code, with little or no documentation and everyone who has worked on it has left the company.
  • There needs to be a transition between the cockpit and the outside world. Probably the best way to do this is how fleet carrier interiors work. Move you into a lift, load/switch the context while you are in the lift, open the doors onto a new playing field. The problem with the cockpit is that it is not the current context, it just looks like it is. The current context is the current system. You just happen to be viewing it from a fixed point with a fake cockpit façade layered in the way. So the problem is that you want to move from the star system / planet landing context to a walkable cockpit context and vice versa. You need some form of transition, whether that is a animation of you standing up or a fade to black.
  • You need to add rules into the logic to stop you leaving the seat when it is not sensible to.
  • You need to add code to allow the player to interact with the button on the door and code to animate the door.
  • The lighting model assumes a fixed location of the camera (your character's face). Move the view point and the lighting changes. Obstacles get between the viewpoint and the light source. Fine if the light source is fixed and the camera moves, or the light source moves and the camera stays put, but when they both move......
  • You finally get to the steps of your ship. However, you have the possibility of landing on uneven surfaces with rocks, plants and other stuff in the way. So the landing logic needs to be updated to take into account the terrain around the stairs. We have all had problems getting the SRV under the ship because there is a bit of lumpy ground in the way. Now magnify that by an order of magnitude cos the stairs extend to the middle of a large plant or lead to the edge of a cliff. Or the stairs stop a rock. You can jump down from the rock, but you cant easily climb back up again. Sure you can jump, but does that break the immersion?
Having implemented all of that you can now get out of your seat, interact with nothing but a single button. It takes you ten times longer to get out of your ship. The immersionists are so happy (well they are for the first few times). The rest of the game players are fed up cos it takes then 10 times longer to do stuff, particularly if you are exploring and constantly jumping in and out of your ship. You have now spends loads of money developing these code changes. You have made a small fraction of the gamers happy for a few minutes, annoyed the rest and brought in zero revenue. Never mind you can always advertise this as the game that allows you to stand up and press a button. That is bound to bring in new customers. Is there new game play? Not really, it looks pretty and its kind of cool for ten minutes. Does it add to the grind of the game? Absolutely. Does it add to the functionality of the game? Nah.

Now if they added EVA with ship repairs, more interiors to buildings we can already get into, new interiors for buildings we are locked out of, caves to explore, more dangers and things to interact with inside ships, buildings and alien structures, then that would be adding game play. That would be worth the development, but it would take much longer. In the meantime the bug fixing would slow down. Standing up and pushing a button, sorry not my idea of fun. For those of you who play SC., is the getting out of bed and exiting your hotel room at the beginning of the game the best part of the game? I doubt it. Is it cool the first time you see it? Probably. Would you like to do it all day long? Nah.
Your bits about the fixed camera in the cockpit might be wrong. In VR you can move the camera around any way you like, so the lighting model and other stuff will be prepared for a moving camera.
 
I do. Every.. single.. time i play. I go back to my carrier, hop out, and log out in the bar, or on the bridge or captains room if i'm queing a jump. I start the carrier mangament interface from the monitor in the captains room, or the chair if im going to wait for the jump.. every.. single... time.
Right with you there. I'm paying upkeep for my carrier shipyard for just two reasons:
1. no blocked off space on my concourse
2. ship swapping at the shipyard terminal is way more immersive than just plopping from one ship into another.
 
Oh it all sound so simple. All you need to do is paint a corridor, have a door with a button and bingo ... ship interiors!!

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

  • The cabin space has no collision mesh. If you were able to get out of your seat you would fall through the floor.
  • The character that is sat in the seat of your ship does not have the capabilities of the similar looking character that walks around stations and planets. Yes its hands react to you moving controls and a random number generator causes it to twitch a bit, but no real movement. That would need to taken out and replaced by the fully functioning model.
  • The view from the cockpit is a single point of view. In essence a camera on a gimbal. As such it has limited view capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised if it is optimised for that limited view. Take fleet carrier. You can wander round them and look out the window. What is the one thing you cannot do while doing that? That's right, you cannot move the fleet carrier. Why? Because a fixed camera view inside a moving ship or a moving camera view inside static ship are a lot easier than a moving camera inside a moving ship.
  • You then have to unbolt the logic that has been there since the beginning and bolt in the new logic. I can guarantee to you that that code is a heap of spaghetti code, with little or no documentation and everyone who has worked on it has left the company.
  • There needs to be a transition between the cockpit and the outside world. Probably the best way to do this is how fleet carrier interiors work. Move you into a lift, load/switch the context while you are in the lift, open the doors onto a new playing field. The problem with the cockpit is that it is not the current context, it just looks like it is. The current context is the current system. You just happen to be viewing it from a fixed point with a fake cockpit façade layered in the way. So the problem is that you want to move from the star system / planet landing context to a walkable cockpit context and vice versa. You need some form of transition, whether that is a animation of you standing up or a fade to black.
  • You need to add rules into the logic to stop you leaving the seat when it is not sensible to.
  • You need to add code to allow the player to interact with the button on the door and code to animate the door.
  • The lighting model assumes a fixed location of the camera (your character's face). Move the view point and the lighting changes. Obstacles get between the viewpoint and the light source. Fine if the light source is fixed and the camera moves, or the light source moves and the camera stays put, but when they both move......
  • You finally get to the steps of your ship. However, you have the possibility of landing on uneven surfaces with rocks, plants and other stuff in the way. So the landing logic needs to be updated to take into account the terrain around the stairs. We have all had problems getting the SRV under the ship because there is a bit of lumpy ground in the way. Now magnify that by an order of magnitude cos the stairs extend to the middle of a large plant or lead to the edge of a cliff. Or the stairs stop a rock. You can jump down from the rock, but you cant easily climb back up again. Sure you can jump, but does that break the immersion?
Having implemented all of that you can now get out of your seat, interact with nothing but a single button. It takes you ten times longer to get out of your ship. The immersionists are so happy (well they are for the first few times). The rest of the game players are fed up cos it takes then 10 times longer to do stuff, particularly if you are exploring and constantly jumping in and out of your ship. You have now spends loads of money developing these code changes. You have made a small fraction of the gamers happy for a few minutes, annoyed the rest and brought in zero revenue. Never mind you can always advertise this as the game that allows you to stand up and press a button. That is bound to bring in new customers. Is there new game play? Not really, it looks pretty and its kind of cool for ten minutes. Does it add to the grind of the game? Absolutely. Does it add to the functionality of the game? Nah.

Now if they added EVA with ship repairs, more interiors to buildings we can already get into, new interiors for buildings we are locked out of, caves to explore, more dangers and things to interact with inside ships, buildings and alien structures, then that would be adding game play. That would be worth the development, but it would take much longer. In the meantime the bug fixing would slow down. Standing up and pushing a button, sorry not my idea of fun. For those of you who play SC., is the getting out of bed and exiting your hotel room at the beginning of the game the best part of the game? I doubt it. Is it cool the first time you see it? Probably. Would you like to do it all day long? Nah.
I feel like some of your assumptions are just that - assumptions. As for the "you need to add code to do XYZ", well yeah, that's how all DLC works. Look at all the code that had to be added to Odyssey, including reinventing things many of us were happy with in Horizons (Legacy).

I agree that adding interiors is not as easy as some might think, but I disagree that it's as hard as you make it sound.

Disclaimer - I have no vestment in this debate except the debate itself. I don't personally care at this point whether Elite gets ship interiors or not, but I do find the discussion of ship interiors in space games in general to be an interesting discussion that I enjoy engaging with.
 
Oh it all sound so simple. All you need to do is paint a corridor, have a door with a button and bingo ... ship interiors!!

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

  • The cabin space has no collision mesh. If you were able to get out of your seat you would fall through the floor.
  • The character that is sat in the seat of your ship does not have the capabilities of the similar looking character that walks around stations and planets. Yes its hands react to you moving controls and a random number generator causes it to twitch a bit, but no real movement. That would need to taken out and replaced by the fully functioning model.
  • The view from the cockpit is a single point of view. In essence a camera on a gimbal. As such it has limited view capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised if it is optimised for that limited view. Take fleet carrier. You can wander round them and look out the window. What is the one thing you cannot do while doing that? That's right, you cannot move the fleet carrier. Why? Because a fixed camera view inside a moving ship or a moving camera view inside static ship are a lot easier than a moving camera inside a moving ship.
  • You then have to unbolt the logic that has been there since the beginning and bolt in the new logic. I can guarantee to you that that code is a heap of spaghetti code, with little or no documentation and everyone who has worked on it has left the company.
  • There needs to be a transition between the cockpit and the outside world. Probably the best way to do this is how fleet carrier interiors work. Move you into a lift, load/switch the context while you are in the lift, open the doors onto a new playing field. The problem with the cockpit is that it is not the current context, it just looks like it is. The current context is the current system. You just happen to be viewing it from a fixed point with a fake cockpit façade layered in the way. So the problem is that you want to move from the star system / planet landing context to a walkable cockpit context and vice versa. You need some form of transition, whether that is a animation of you standing up or a fade to black.
  • You need to add rules into the logic to stop you leaving the seat when it is not sensible to.
  • You need to add code to allow the player to interact with the button on the door and code to animate the door.
  • The lighting model assumes a fixed location of the camera (your character's face). Move the view point and the lighting changes. Obstacles get between the viewpoint and the light source. Fine if the light source is fixed and the camera moves, or the light source moves and the camera stays put, but when they both move......
  • You finally get to the steps of your ship. However, you have the possibility of landing on uneven surfaces with rocks, plants and other stuff in the way. So the landing logic needs to be updated to take into account the terrain around the stairs. We have all had problems getting the SRV under the ship because there is a bit of lumpy ground in the way. Now magnify that by an order of magnitude cos the stairs extend to the middle of a large plant or lead to the edge of a cliff. Or the stairs stop a rock. You can jump down from the rock, but you cant easily climb back up again. Sure you can jump, but does that break the immersion?
Having implemented all of that you can now get out of your seat, interact with nothing but a single button. It takes you ten times longer to get out of your ship. The immersionists are so happy (well they are for the first few times). The rest of the game players are fed up cos it takes then 10 times longer to do stuff, particularly if you are exploring and constantly jumping in and out of your ship. You have now spends loads of money developing these code changes. You have made a small fraction of the gamers happy for a few minutes, annoyed the rest and brought in zero revenue. Never mind you can always advertise this as the game that allows you to stand up and press a button. That is bound to bring in new customers. Is there new game play? Not really, it looks pretty and its kind of cool for ten minutes. Does it add to the grind of the game? Absolutely. Does it add to the functionality of the game? Nah.

Now if they added EVA with ship repairs, more interiors to buildings we can already get into, new interiors for buildings we are locked out of, caves to explore, more dangers and things to interact with inside ships, buildings and alien structures, then that would be adding game play. That would be worth the development, but it would take much longer. In the meantime the bug fixing would slow down. Standing up and pushing a button, sorry not my idea of fun. For those of you who play SC., is the getting out of bed and exiting your hotel room at the beginning of the game the best part of the game? I doubt it. Is it cool the first time you see it? Probably. Would you like to do it all day long? Nah.
In regard to the technical aspects, for the most part I think you are correct. Where I differ is you assessment of how many want it vs not. With Elite being an ongoing development, I think it would be perfectly fine to start at the bottom and work up as it were. As long as they keep the one-click exit/enter option for those in a hurry, I think it's not too much of a problem, and something that is more a matter of communicating intent and future iterations of the feature.

However, to be fair, I know there are those who would be against ship interiors, and I'd say they would be split into two main camps, the first would be those who really would find it boring, which I personally would suggest are the minority who would come around to the feature once it does get more fleshed out, and then I think there are those who might not want to see Elite get such a feature, let's say, from the perspective of those who would see Elite as their competition, I'm not sure how big of a camp that would be but I'd imagine they'd be extremely vocal.
 
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