Only you, FdEv, only you...

i do feel sorry for FD in this regard, all they are trying to do is to inject some tension and drama into the game, something which is much needed if you ask me. I can't believe that the moaning minnies in this thread have turned me (a vocal critic of FD) into a white knight. The poor buggers can't do anything right.
 
I think it's great. Let's hope the Thargoids go after Farseer next. ;)
That would suck 'coz she seems like such a nice lady. Wasn't a boozer like Didi or a stinky ol' smoker like Hera. Honestly, the last time I was out there getting my plant upgraded, the smell was in my hair and on my clothes..... 😕
 
... could have seriiously have had the idea of locking down an Engineer needed to up your drives to the max while simultaneously trying to make the game more newb friendly.

Only you.
And only you (and that bird person) would equate G5 engineering with new players. By Frontier's own admission long ago, G5 engineering was meant as an 'end game' activity, not something you do the instant you leave the starting system. I've been playing over two years and I don't have G5 thrusters!

This turn of events has actually made the game interesting again. It gets the 'Old Duck' elephant butt stamp of approval ;)
 
i do feel sorry for FD in this regard, all they are trying to do is to inject some tension and drama into the game, something which is much needed if you ask me. I can't believe that the moaning minnies in this thread have turned me (a vocal critic of FD) into a white knight. The poor buggers can't do anything right.
Not according to the multitude of genius basement chair experts who know better of course than those who work for a living in the industry.
 
And you also have Palins upgrades already, I assume? Yes?
And you do 'not see a new one goin after thargoids or getting involved in high level pvp where even 10m/s matters', that's nice. So why would this poor idiot need Palin anyway? So true. But what effect will the 'nice narrative' have on newer players? And why does the '1-2 weeks delay at the cost of nice narrative' not also affect players, who already have Palins upgrades pinned? I would not have said a word if it were so, but affecting only new players and hindering them is a bad idea.
But as I said, I am not affected yet, and maybe it will resolve itself in several weeks, and maybe I will play in the meantime, but careful not to grind for things which are possibly just taken away later for some 'other nice narrative'.
Have fun!

Interesting take. I prefer to digitally inhabit a galaxy where interesting things happen sometimes, and where foes who are supposed to be lethal actually act lethal occasionally. I don't see why the Thargoids should fail to attack Palin because it might "unbalance game progression" - last I knew the Thargs were embroiled in a civil war of their own and are playing out their own strategic moves as they see fit.

The idea that the game remain unchanged in tne way you suggest is a type of "heat death" - everything in perfect equilibrium in a system incapable of change.

Q
 

dxm55

Banned
I've never understood why some new players chase G5 engineering in the first place when they can barely fly.
o7

Because G5 mods make it easier for the noobs and less skilled players.

G5 drives means your previously clumsy cow can now outrun or outturn a similar classed NPC.
Also... G5 FSDs means they can jump further.
G5 double shot frag cannons means I can spam these upclose and in your face as I'm boosting into and ramming you.
G5 Efficient beams now means they can just set pips to engines and hold down that trigger without worrying about overheating or running out of juice.
And G5 Powerplants and Distros means I can set everything to priority 1, and not worry about those G5 beams and G5 drive boosts all day.

I'm not sure what you're not seeing.
 
Because G5 mods make it easier for the noobs and less skilled players.

G5 drives means your previously clumsy cow can now outrun or outturn a similar classed NPC.
Also... G5 FSDs means they can jump further.
G5 double shot frag cannons means I can spam these upclose and in your face as I'm boosting into and ramming you.
G5 Efficient beams now means they can just set pips to engines and hold down that trigger without worrying about overheating or running out of juice.
And G5 Powerplants and Distros means I can set everything to priority 1, and not worry about those G5 beams and G5 drive boosts all day.

I'm not sure what you're not seeing.
So what I'm hearing is, these mods are way too easy to get, and should be made much more difficult to obtain so they actually fit in their actual role as veteran-player mods.

Maybe mat requirements need to be ramped up, and you lose them on ship destruction. Sounds like a good place to start.
 
So what I'm hearing is, these mods are way too easy to get, and should be made much more difficult to obtain so they actually fit in their actual role as veteran-player mods.

Maybe mat requirements need to be ramped up, and you lose them on ship destruction. Sounds like a good place to start.

Honestly I was happy enough with the mat & commodity requirements in 2.1 (I didn't keep the cargo in my hold until I had it all, I used it as I obtained it). The 3.0 changes to remove the random rolls was a welcome QoL update though.
 

dxm55

Banned
So what I'm hearing is, these mods are way too easy to get, and should be made much more difficult to obtain so they actually fit in their actual role as veteran-player mods.

Maybe mat requirements need to be ramped up, and you lose them on ship destruction. Sounds like a good place to start.

That's where vet players, esp PVPers, mod up and then club the noob seals with impunity.
Exactly why newer players should immediately be looking to engineer to even the odds.

Besides, it doesn't take skill to engineer. It just takes a lot of grind and tolerance currently.
The older farts enjoy that kinda stuff cos they're well into their years and enjoy stuff like mowing the lawn.
Younger players usually just bear with it and grind their way through, hoping that the fruits of their labor will be worth the pain
 
That's where vet players, esp PVPers, mod up and then club the noob seals with impunity.
Exactly why newer players should immediately be looking to engineer to even the odds.

Besides, it doesn't take skill to engineer. It just takes a lot of grind and tolerance currently.
The older farts enjoy that kinda stuff cos they're well into their years and enjoy stuff like mowing the lawn.
Younger players usually just bear with it and grind their way through, hoping that the fruits of their labor will be worth the pain

There is skill if you figure it out for yourself, learning where to obtain the things you need & how to break down a large goal into manageable chunks.

A long time ago I wrote a piece called How Engineered mods affect gameplay 101 that seems appropriate:

How Engineered mods affect gameplay 101:

Consider three playstyles: Solo, Co-op & PvP.

Playing alone (PvE), if you are good at combat, you can ignore Engineers, if you are less good you can use mods to improve your survivability & DPS.

Playing Co-op, you have a similar situation, and with special effects like healing it gives choices & allows each player in a wing to potentially specialise.

For PvP it is still viable to either agree certain rules on allowable mods or simply agree to not use any mods, the issue is more one of trust than anything else. For non-consensual, or free-form PvP there is an issue of escalation & the apparent desire to keep up with whatever the current meta is. This is where the Engineers creates issues, for any other play style one can either ignore mods altogether or they can be used to increase your options & variety of choice.

For any playstyle mods like lightweight components, or increased jump range can make a multi-role loadout more viable, or a specialised loadout even more optimised. It's a great addition to the game in many ways, only non-consensual, or freeform PvP has any downside at all really.

The way the Engineers have been implemented means that it 'encourages' you to explore aspects of the game that you might not have tried (eg mining, or travelling long distances), which is both a pro and a con, and the dice throw mechanism allows min-maxers to endlessly optimise to their hearts content while the regular player can simply have, more often than not, a straight upgrade in the direction they want.

My personal feeling is that if you are wanting to min-max your meta loadout for freeform PvP you should be prepared to put the effort in, just as you do with practising your skills, and if you just want to play the game, you can.


This imbalance of freeform PvP all started with SCBs, not Engineers. For all other play styles you simply have options to cover your particular short-comings as a Cmdr with extra equipment.
 

dxm55

Banned
There is skill if you figure it out for yourself, learning where to obtain the things you need & how to break down a large goal into manageable chunks.

A long time ago I wrote a piece called How Engineered mods affect gameplay 101 that seems appropriate:

There is no skill involved in engineering. Come on, now.....

There is only noticing trends, as in what system states gives you what kind of signal sources to get what type of mats. KNOWLEDGE, not skill.
You don't even need to participate in PVE combat vs NPCs to get manufactured mats, you can grab them from abandoned bases.

And with the multitudes of Youtube videos showing you where and how, you're better off just getting your info there than wasting time figuring that crap out.
Don't forget sites like INARA telling you where the mat traders are in relation to your location?
CANONN research telling you where all the abandoned settlements and crashed ships are.

The only skill you need is Googling skills. :rolleyes: And then after that, it's a matter of perseverance, patience and above all tolerance for the grind that's about to come.
 
Not anymore he isnt.

Looks like hes setting up in Arque now.
It's funny - when engineers were introduced they were supposed to be these elusive mysterious individuals who you could only contact via a secret network of contacts, but there's Palin on the galactic news - nearly as famous as the galactic powers - and now setting up his lab in a public base - what's that about ;)
 
That's where vet players, esp PVPers, mod up and then club the noob seals with impunity.
Exactly why newer players should immediately be looking to engineer to even the odds.

Besides, it doesn't take skill to engineer. It just takes a lot of grind and tolerance currently.
The older farts enjoy that kinda stuff cos they're well into their years and enjoy stuff like mowing the lawn.
Younger players usually just bear with it and grind their way through, hoping that the fruits of their labor will be worth the pain
I'm all ears to a robust discussion about rebalancing engineering, but to suggest "newbies" need access to apex-level engineering mods out the door just because others might have it is a garbage argument.

Sure, it doesn't take skill to engineer, but it should take planning. You shouldn't just be starting out and going "Right, time to whack on that G5 mod". If that's the case, then what the heck is the point of G1-4 mods? Just remove them, collapse the requisite costs of G1-4 into the cost of the G5, rebadge the G5 mod as simply "the mod" and be done with it.

All the complaints about Palin's temporary disappearance is fomenting the fact that engineering mods are too accissble, and too permanent, and that the player-base is now over-reliant on having "G5 mods or gtfo".

There's heaps of room for a discussion about rebalancing engineering mods. Maybe mods need to be more like Synthesis, in that any one of, or all of the following:
  • Maybe you can't repair a module with a modification. Repairing it removes the mod.
  • Maybe you can't remove a module with a modification. Removing it removes the mod.
  • Maybe engineering modifications shouldn't be rebuyable on ship loss.
  • Maybe modifications need more substantial negative drawbacks at the higher-end.
  • Maybe (for a single example of the above) G5 dirty drives should result in overheating your ship every time you boost?
  • Maybe prolonged use of a modified fitting causes degradation over time.

Suddenly, G1-G3 becomes your go-to every-day engineering, because it's cheap to replace and gives you a routine advantage in the fight, but when you want to guarantee being at peak performance, you mod a G4-5 module, knowing it'll be dead at the end of the day. The materials needed to do a G5 mod could fit out =~ 10 G3 mods, or even 80-odd G1 mods...

Then engineering, and specifically when and how you undertake that engineering, becomes an actual planned process which affects your game on a day-to-day basis, and not just a set-and-forget thing. Of course, someone might scream "But what about my optimised FSD while i'm 20KLY in the black?!?!". Again... robust discussion...
  • Maybe (more expensive than the mod) synthesis can repair damage to an engineered module
  • Maybe engineering can be done with a module in the field
  • Heaps of other things I haven't thought of, or have but haven't written here.

Again, all this Palin stuff has brought to the surface the fact that Engineering is in a pretty sorry state at the moment, where people consider G5 mods as needing to be "Noob-accessible" where the reality is they were intended for end-game outfitting. So yeah, a robust discussion on the problems with engineering... got all day for that. But the concept that G5 should be readily accessible to the new player is trashbin stuff.
 
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