Not really, don't over think these things. Some people are prats and enjoy upsetting others. It's that simple.
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Open letter to Frontier
- Thread starter Cowboy Bats
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Not really, don't over think these things. Some people are prats and enjoy upsetting others. It's that simple.
There is a difference. You try to ignore it or are unable to understand it.
What exactly is the entire OP about then? And the reddit? And all the other times in all the other threads where it's been used in exactly this same manner? You need to read more, there's a number of Mobius members using it as a club and trying to force FD to cater to them due to the number of players in it. It's repeated HOW many times in this very thread alone? And lets not forget the other half dozen MORE threads created on this very same subject since last night where it's being done...
You may think it's not a collective effort, but the signs seems to indicate otherwise and have for some time now. As I said, Mobius may have nothing to do with it, may well not be aware it's being done at all, but it IS his name and his group being used in this, so he may want to say something to people in his group about this.
You honestly think the various infiltrations were JUST for grins and giggles? You honestly think they weren't provoked by statements on these forums and reddit? You may want to start looking around a little more intently if that's your honest thinking on the subject, because this has been obvious to me for quite a while, and I'm not the only one.
I think the idea behind Mobius' group is great, I really do, not my thing because I enjoy Open and find getting randomly attacked and even killed enjoyable, but that's me. I like what Mobius is supposed to be about, group play vs the environment, not each other. Great idea, reminds me of DDO, which totally PvE and was a lot of fun due to that, although it to has it's griefers. But when I see more and more people pushing Mobius as the proper way to play, as a group that must be listened to by FD because there's so many of them, the insults and provocations that are being extended to all PvPers en mass, that's not what Mobius had in mind is it? Demanding that FD cater to their choice of play? Insulting and provoking PvPers? Doesn't seem like his style to me, really doesn't...
Thing is, most high profit trade routes make 10m an hour, I make that on my good trade route, 2 jumps each way, easy peasy. I get killed, I'm out a lot more than a T9 for my rebuy in my Anaconda, plus cargo costs, and I make that all back in less than 2 hours on my trade route. That's what traders do, they have short haul runs that make a lot of credits fast and easy, so the 'out a week's play' is beyond hyperbole, it's a flat out lie, no trader is out a week's play if they get killed. An explorer, THEY can easily be out a week's play, or a month's play, or 18 month's play, but that's an explorer and traders were specifically mentioned here, not explorers. I'm out in the Black right, made enough trading to offset my costs doing CGs and just being stupid with my Python and Anaconda on planet surfaces(neither of them bounce very well by the way, but getting an Annie up over 1000 m/s is a blast, more than worth the rebuy cost! everyone should try it!).
Since a trader will be doing that same back and forth REGARDLESS of being killed or not, what exactly changes? They lose an hour or two of profit, that's it, nothing more. And they are far more likely to get attacked and killed by NPCs in ALL modes than they are players, and that's a fact. I've had NPCs attack me simply because I was there, nothing in my hold, not wanted, don't do powerplay, and I'm friendly or allied with ALL the minor factions where my trade route is, still get randomly attacked for no reason at all by NPCs often enough that I've actually got muscle memory down pat for dealing with them, throttle down, 2 to shields, 4 to weapons, run out the guns, KWS the dead man, blow him away, stow weapons, wait for FSD to finish cooling down, jump. Yeah, that's SO rare that I've got it down to taking them out before my FSD has cooled down when I submit to interdiction....
I do have wonder if some of these people claiming that the NPCs rarely attack you for grins and giggles actually play the game very often, they seem to show an amazing lack of awareness of how the game works.
Asa far as I am concerned a 'win' for a PvP'er is the least bit important/not even a valid game mechanic for Elite: Dangerous? A 'win' does absolutely nothing for the game at all. Had it done so, I would have understood a small degree of 'advantage', yes.
It however does not.
The fact that a subjective 'I won' feeling from an individual intent on destroying another vessel for his/her jollies is being protected by FD is even more sad.
well you have the 2 options in the menu right? 2 (with the right groups) even more. Im 100% for attacking only humans. would it be weird if i ask for humans in solo and remove npc in open?
Some CMDRS play the game on a very shallow level, others are Canonn scientists, Astronomy explorers, defenders of the weak, trader extraordinaire, etc.
Just because some cro magnon wants to play the game at the 6 year old level doesn't mean he can't.
If some knobs were able to infiltrate The Twisted Paper Ring, well that's part of the game too, unethical or not.
If Mobius has gotten too big to properly vet each and every prospective member, it's not the fifth columnist Dead End Kidz fault.
Perhaps The Mo Mob needs active crowd control?
Just my two pence.
Just because some cro magnon wants to play the game at the 6 year old level doesn't mean he can't.
If some knobs were able to infiltrate The Twisted Paper Ring, well that's part of the game too, unethical or not.
If Mobius has gotten too big to properly vet each and every prospective member, it's not the fifth columnist Dead End Kidz fault.
Perhaps The Mo Mob needs active crowd control?
Just my two pence.
I thought Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting. Friday is PIZZA DAY!
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Two facts about the current build(s) of Elite: Dangerous:
- A game design choice, P2P networking, allows network connections to be broken at will.
- A bug or design limitation prevents a Private Group owner from removing undesirable members from a large Private Group.
Hmm...
Arrested Development. Simple Fun for Simpletons.
When you really think about it, when you remove yourself from equation and consider the scenario dispassionately, combat loggers are the True Heroes.
I'm sorry, what? Are you now demanding that I must play the way you do? I'm not at that end game point where I can choose between half a dozen high end ships. Until recently I traded in an asp and have just upgraded to a T7, and I -don't- make ten million in an hour! Plus I have a life and a job and precious little game time. So do NOT sir presume to know how long it takes me to recover a hold full of cargo!
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Where did i say that
I said that. Well no, I said that being blown up can set you back by a week. He's wording things to try to make it seem like I'm exagerating.
Said it before but it needs repeating PvP toggle on or off it's THAT simple.
On actively and consensually looking for PvP encounters. Can shoot or be shot at by other PvP on targets.
Off Can't be shot at by a real player, and cannot shoot at a real player.
Cooldowns and warmups to limit any abuse, and if engaged in a dogfight cannot toggle it off while fighting. If done correctly this would eliminate many problems, as for idiots ramming other ships in stations etc, well that is a whole other nut to crack.
On actively and consensually looking for PvP encounters. Can shoot or be shot at by other PvP on targets.
Off Can't be shot at by a real player, and cannot shoot at a real player.
Cooldowns and warmups to limit any abuse, and if engaged in a dogfight cannot toggle it off while fighting. If done correctly this would eliminate many problems, as for idiots ramming other ships in stations etc, well that is a whole other nut to crack.
I heard some body went to SagA to shoot up explorers arriving there. Did you do that? If so, I have to ask, how do you put up with the mindless tedium of hauling your over to SagA in a limited jump range ship (unless just a single weapon was enough against unarmed explorers) and then sit there waiting for someone to arrive! I think on a good day, you'll see maybe three people turn up at SagA and they are usually in some player group. It would bore me stupid but then again people are different I guess.
Some explorers have started taking weapons with them now apparently because jumponium allows them to take a hit on jump range. All that nonsense is way too dull for me, I'll just take my chances hiding in 400 billion little star systems.
Hey I'm no fan of unwanted PvP in any game. I've been shouting for a PvE mode for 12 months on these boards.
But at the end of the day, the rules should be applied to all players equally and fairly.
Combat logging, be it by a PvP'er who is losing or by a PvE'er who was daft enough to fly in Open - is wrong either way. Both parties should be treated the same for committing the same offence.
We all know playing any other mode than Solo leaves us open to attack by another player. There is no PvE area, despite Mobius advertising one - it simply does not exist. FD never made one.
So FD defending PvP in the Mobius Group really is not a surprise. What has shocked me is that they made a comment at all - because in the SOG threads we've been asking for a comment from FD for ages on PvE.
What I'm struggling with tonight, is people who equate legitimate (though jerk) game play with cheating/ exploiting - that is some weird mentality folks have got going on.
But then again, the definition of "griefing" on these boards is the most broad and pointless definition I've ever had the misfortune to read on any game forums.
Lost count of how many times I've tried to explain PvP and griefing are not the same thing. Also tried to explain that PvE and Mobius Group are not the same, but it seems to have taken SDC to get that point home.
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Good question, why doesn't FD punish those who use external websites for trade..... perhaps because they cannot prove you've used one.
They can however prove someone combat logs, so they can punish what they can prove.
And in game murder is part of the game, with in game punishments - so random killing of players in open or in groups is fine and does not require FD to step in.
Now external murder for in game benefits is just not on and FD should step in and ban someone for that
How do they do that? How do you distinguish between a player with a bad internet connection and a player that's using an exploit?
Also, players often brag about using third party sites for trade and are not banned, so evidently that's not why combat logging is against the rules. Try again.
I have some sympathy with your view here. It is at least odd, that it makes a difference what kills you except perhaps the knowledge that the commander had a choice and chose to kill whereas the NPC didn't have that choice. That and perhaps that to some degree NPC's are balanced against your average player whereas many PvP people seem to find the motivation to spend hours honing their flying skills, testing out attack and defence builds and thinking about tactics and stuff. Frankly I find that incredibly dull but that's just me I guess. Oh, and yes, on the whole, the average seal clubber also makes sure they massively outnumber their target. NPC's don't plan to do that although it happens sometimes.
BY the way, those guys and gals that get really into PvP and organise battles between themselves and play the game as they want to. They are the real PvP'ers and they are not a problem to anybody.
Honestly the response is pretty appalling in this case. And with how many people are in Mobius its not even an easy task for Mobius to mange that group, and frontier has shown nothing in taking any steps to make it easier to manage private groups which is a major problem. Also at this point I'd say the 'no naming and shaming' policy here is actually more a way to protect people who jump into groups to grief people like this then anything else. When ever we need to bring this subject on the forums in a hope of getting this issue addressed we have to be overly vague since you can't actually call out the people going into a group that explicitly for PVE play to gank players that do not want to pvp and joined that group to avoid PVP.
I really think that we've hit a point where frontier needs to take a break from putting brand new features into the game and take a look at the broken/under developed features that people have been bringing up for well over a year now and fix them. Also we have 3 game modes, Open, Private Groups(that anyone can start), and Solo, it honestly cannot be that hard to add a few lines of code for a new game mode that works just like open except in that game mode you cannot damage or interdict players as another player.
I really think that we've hit a point where frontier needs to take a break from putting brand new features into the game and take a look at the broken/under developed features that people have been bringing up for well over a year now and fix them. Also we have 3 game modes, Open, Private Groups(that anyone can start), and Solo, it honestly cannot be that hard to add a few lines of code for a new game mode that works just like open except in that game mode you cannot damage or interdict players as another player.
Indeed. The NPCs make very similar choices to the humans. They're both programmed in pretty much the same way:
If I'm flying in a Sidewinder or Hauler taxi then I'll get randomly interdicted by NPCs a lot more often than when I'm flying in a Fer-de-Lance.
If I'm flying a ship with cargo then I'll get interdicted by NPCs who either ask me to drop cargo, or say "HAHAHAHAHA" and start shooting.
Other NPCs just like to fly around trading or interdicting bounty hunters.
Others mine in RES sites.
Just like players really.
(I realise that what I've said is ripe for picking apart. For example: one thing NPCs don't do is suicide-ramming in no-speed zones.)
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