Open-Only in PP2.0?

[angusmadmac1]

That would be very hard to implement given the game doesn't flag contacts in journal.

Current journal allows to track the game mode for each transaction (missions, scans, NPC kills, etc.) so it's something extremely easy to implement.

I think any sort of bonus that would reward player interaction was always going to be hard to implement due to additional work .
Just playing in open doesn't guarantee player interaction ?
But it was an idea which in my opinion was better than open only or just a bonus which I sort of disagree with . ( A great and well thought out one in my opinion ) .

 

[Rat Catcher]

Just playing in open doesn't guarantee player interaction ?

Nope...

I've been flying exclusively in open for the last month and have yet to see another player.

 

[angusmadmac1]

Nope...

I've been flying exclusively in open for the last month and have yet to see another player.

Same here sometimes I can't instance with friends ( but that may be due to their personal choice )

 

[Rebel Yell]

Just playing in open doesn't guarantee player interaction ?

Nope...

I've been flying exclusively in open for the last month and have yet to see another player.

With friends, squadmates, powerplay mates... a lot of coop interaction (and backstabbing for fun sometimes), but you can figure out [making just one example] what type of interaction is when a lonely enemy pledged ships wakes into a system where 2-3 of our wings are operating. All that happens is CMDR pops in contacts, then you see a freaked low wake followed by a instant hi-wake somewhere else (if not switch from open to non-open game modes) to AVOID interaction.

 

[Doctor Dread]

of interaction is when a lonely enemy pledged ships wakes into a system where 2-3 of our wings are operating. All that happens is CMDR pops in contacts, then you see a freaked low wake followed by a instant hi-wake somewhere else (if not switch from open to non-open game modes) to AVOID interaction.

Indeed a hazardous situation for your 2-3 operating wings. You should all be rewarded for the risk you took.

 

[Rat Catcher]

All that happens is CMDR pops in contacts, then you see a freaked low wake followed by a instant hi-wake somewhere else (if not switch from open to non-open game modes) to AVOID interaction.

Perhaps it is a very subtle hint that not all who elect to play in open feel like pew-pew with random wings?
Although, TBH, if they are not in the business of 'interacting' with single pilots or wings, in the case of PP, why are they playing in open then running away?

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Perhaps it is a very subtle hint that not all who elect to play in open feel like pew-pew with random wings?
Although, TBH, if they are not in the business of 'interacting' with single pilots or wings, in the case of PP, why are they playing in open then running away?

Based on PP1.0 experience, it'll most likely be the sudden realisation they're actually going to meet opposition.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Indeed a hazardous situation for your 2-3 operating wings. You should all be rewarded for the risk you took.

I do wonder if you deliberately misconstrue the idea behind open weighting, which as a concept was aimed at PvE interactions (not PvP interactions) conducted in open.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Nope...

I've been flying exclusively in open for the last month and have yet to see another player.

Meanwhile, I’ve been doing the same, and since the release of PowerPlay 2.0, I’ve encountered over sixty. In all that time, I met only one hostile player I encountered twice, and that was at the blockade at George Lucas. And I ran that blockade over 20 times, and escaped with my rares the second time because I now know what to do in that scenario.

To date, roughly one third of the players I’ve encountered were in a position for me to scan, and roughly twenty percent of thise turned out to be pledged to a power.

Meanwhile, the some try to justify the behavior of the usual suspects by appealing to the “PvP food chain.” The completely contemptuous concept that when there isn’t enough “good” PvP to be had, it’s “only natural” for the PvP inclined to go to newbie or non-combat areas in search of PvP.

I’ve been hearing the same putrid pasture pastry for over 30 years, and the “PvP food chain” is built upon a foundation of ruining the experience of those who have no interest in PvP, those who have no ability to fight back, and those too new to the game to fight back. It’s also based on the ridiculous notion that the “middle” of the food chain will stick around once the “good” PvPers show up.

Which is why I prefer the status quo. Allow the base of the “food chain” to enjoy their game in peace, and population of the usual suspects vanishes into the ether, either due to a lack of targets, or because those that remain in Open (made up the significant majority of players) can at least survive an attack long enough to escape.

I still look back at how different Ultima Online was following the Trammel/Felucca split. Before the split, the usual suspects were out of control, raiding newbie and harvesting locations at will, the “PvPers” completely incapable of slowing them down. The game was losing players like crazy, and so the split was made into two shards: one with free PvP like before, and one where PvP was restricted to those who opted in.

Afterwards, the usual suspects haunted Trammel (the restricted-PvP shard) hoping for a slip up that would allow them to kill. Meanwhile, in Felucca (the open PvP enabled shard) the PvPers happily organized to fight each other, and a crafter could harvest freely, unbothered by both the usual suspects and stiff competition for limited resources alike.

 

[SteveWW57]

IRL if the odds are even, then you are not fighting in the best way possible. Enemy too strong, then it's time for asymmetric warfare. Hide in the shadows and strike, undermine with minimum risk.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Meanwhile, I’ve been doing the same, and since the release of PowerPlay 2.0, I’ve encountered over sixty. In all that time, I met only one hostile player I encountered twice, and that was at the blockade at George Lucas. And I ran that blockade over 20 times, and escaped with my rares the second time because I now know what to do in that scenario.

To date, roughly one third of the players I’ve encountered were in a position for me to scan, and roughly twenty percent of thise turned out to be pledged to a power.

Who's blockading George Lucas? And why?

 

[Darkfyre99]

IRL if the odds are even, then you are not fighting in the best way possible. Enemy too strong, then it's time for asymmetric warfare. Hide in the shadows and strike, undermine with minimum risk.

True, but this is a game, and games should be fun. Very few people enjoy asymmetrical PvP, especially when they’re on the receiving end. It’s only natural to “nope” out of such a scenario. Which is why I’d rather the type of player who would do so nice to Solo/PG.

I think it’s much more fun to run that blockade (successful or not) than the alternative, and I’d much rather play with like minded players… especially if I was the one doing the blockading.

 

[Robert Maynard]

True, but this is a game, and games should be fun. Very few people enjoy asymmetrical PvP, especially when they’re on the receiving end. It’s only natural to “nope” out of such a scenario. Which is why I’d rather the type of player who would do so nice to Solo/PG.

I think it’s much more fun to run that blockade (successful or not) than the alternative, and I’d much rather play with like minded players… especially if I was the one doing the blockading.

It boils down to there being no requirement on any player to be fun to play among, and that being the case there's a likelihood that those who don't find others fun to play among will choose not to play among them. That some of those who choose to play in ways that aren't fun for others to play among then complain about the fact that those who don't need to or choose to play among them to affect mode shared game features are in some way "spoiling their fun" by not playing the game the way that they would like to dictate is somewhat ironic.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Who's blockading George Lucas? And why?

Until rares were shut down, players pledged to Mahon were, because rares were so powerful at fortification and they wanted to "slow down" the opposition. Given that most of the the players I encountered were at George Lucas or the other Old World rares stations, many of those repeatedly, that tells you how effective such blockades are in Open among willing players.

Especially since half of my George Lucas runs were during a single day, after I learned of the blockade, so I could get a little more experience at that form of blockade running.

I was keeping an eye on Inara that day, and IIRC there were only four murders reported over the two day reporting period. And I encountered… that would’ve been the 18th… thirteen unique players that day, and I only did Old World rare runs the entire day in the hopes of facing opposition.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Leave George Lucas alone, since he's sold Star Wars to Disney he's not done anything else to the Original Trilogy to justify blockading him. Let the man enjoy his retirement.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Although, TBH, if they are not in the business of 'interacting' with single pilots or wings, in the case of PP, why are they playing in open then running away?

I had a case like that last night.

Jump into Acquisition system (flying a multi-role Krait II). See a Python 2 for the contesting Power there, plus they have two wingmates I can't see.

Well, I clearly can't expect to win a fight with that (especially with my always limited PvP skills being under six years of rust) and I just give them a bunch of merits if I try; I'm not carrying cargo so there's nowhere particularly to try to get past them to that's worth doing, so I boost clear while their own SCO is cooling, and high-wake.

Based on PP1.0 experience, it'll most likely be the sudden realisation they're actually going to meet opposition.

Isn't that all working as intended, though? They get the (merit-free) victory of me not adding to the other side's score; I go to one of the hundreds of other systems my Power could use some extra points in - which as it turned out in this case, was even versus a different Power, not that they get to know that - and it turns out that one wasn't being guarded then and I can do what I like. Win-win.

 

[SteveWW57]

True, but this is a game, and games should be fun. Very few people enjoy asymmetrical PvP, especially when they’re on the receiving end. It’s only natural to “nope” out of such a scenario. Which is why I’d rather the type of player who would do so nice to Solo/PG.

I think it’s much more fun to run that blockade (successful or not) than the alternative, and I’d much rather play with like minded players… especially if I was the one doing the blockading.

Fun for who? Me, my fun would be using to tools available to "outsmart" the enemy and achieve the objective. Even more if they run around with their 4 ship blockading forces accompanied by a rending of hair, gnashing of teeth and wailing.

Why should my fun be limited?

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Until rares were shut down, players pledged to Mahon were, because rares were so powerful at fortification and they wanted to "slow down" the opposition. Given that most of the the players I encountered were at George Lucas or the other Old World rares stations, many of those repeatedly, that tells you how effective such blockades are in Open among willing players.

Especially since half of my George Lucas runs were during a single day, after I learned of the blockade, so I could get a little more experience at that form of blockade running.

I was keeping an eye on Inara that day, and IIRC there were only four murders reported over the two day reporting period. And I encountered… that would’ve been the 18th… thirteen unique players that day, and I only did Old World rare runs the entire day in the hopes of facing opposition.

PMing you.

Isn't that all working as intended, though? They get the (merit-free) victory of me not adding to the other side's score; I go to one of the hundreds of other systems my Power could use some extra points in - which as it turned out in this case, was even versus a different Power, not that they get to know that - and it turns out that one wasn't being guarded then and I can do what I like. Win-win.

Yep, and I doubt anyone would have issue with that outcome as you describe it, however the problem is of course, when they see the opposition, and switch to another mode to avoid it, which is what PP1.0 slowly slid into.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Perhaps it is a very subtle hint that not all who elect to play in open feel like pew-pew with random wings?

Well, that's not very "random", I mean.. if wings are there, is for a reason.

Although, TBH, if they are not in the business of 'interacting' with single pilots or wings, in the case of PP, why are they playing in open then running away?

See below:

Based on PP1.0 experience, it'll most likely be the sudden realisation they're actually going to meet opposition.

^^ THIS

Running (and find a different target/system where doing things) is fine... I mean, opposition can scan wakes eventually, so there's some way to pursue fleeing CMDRs.

Switching game mode from open to non-open to AVOID interaction and do things in same system... well sounds like an emerging cringe-play.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Fun for who? Me, my fun would be using to tools available to "outsmart" the enemy and achieve the objective. Even more if they run around with their 4 ship blockading forces accompanied by a rending of hair, gnashing of teeth and wailing.

Why should my fun be limited?

I agree. But as another wrote:

All that happens is CMDR pops in contacts, then you see a freaked low wake followed by a instant hi-wake somewhere else (if not switch from open to non-open game modes) to AVOID interaction.

Which I personally don't think is particularly fun for anyone involved. The type of player would do that I'd much rather play Solo/PG, so I don't have be frustrated by the behavior of the other side.

Which naturally leads to the fundamental issue of this thread: Is the PowerPlay community signficiantly more likely to play in Open than the general population, or are they significantly more likely to play in Solo/PG? Given that the general population is significantly more likely to play in Open to begin with, the complaints of most of the Open Only proponents that most of their opponents are "hiding" in Solo/PG, and how notoriously poor instancing is in this game in general, I think it's the (edit) former, and the netcode is uniquely ill suited for that kind of confrontational PvP.

Yep, and I doubt anyone would have issue with that outcome as you describe it, however the problem is of course, when they see the opposition, and switch to another mode to avoid it, was what PP1.0 slowly slid into.

How sure are you that they all switched to other modes? I'm not saying nobody did, but in my experience it's hard enough to get instanced with people you want to be instanced with. As near as I can tell, most players quit playing PowerPlay 1.0 altogether except to acquire the PowerPlay modules, simply due to the lack of PvE variety. Others, like me, switched exclusively to BGS manipulation, and didn't bother to earn merits for similar reasons.

I was in much more danger from unpledged gankers trying to kill empty cargo ships at the capital than I ever was at the end of my cargo run.

edited due to using the wrong word that completely alters what I was trying to say