Evidence?
Open-Only in PP2.0?
- Thread starter August Lagrange
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If players don't choose to play among those who want to engage them in PvP, and do not need to play among those who want to engage them in PvP in a game where other players are an optional extra, in what way is the argument "bad faith"?
Some may find that the frisson of potential, or actual, PvP adds to their game experience, for others it may represent a tedious and predictable waste of game time - and no-one needs to play among those that they don't find to be fun to play among in this game.
Players who enjoy PvP rather obviously can impede those who choose to play among them while those players are engaged in any pan-modal game feature, when they instance with them. What they cannot do is force players who choose not to instance with them to do so while engaging in pan-modal game features.
My statement was nothing to do with how PvP works in Open but an opinion of the attitude of some folks who just because there is no play style for them chose to take it out on others.
I have no issue with Role playing pirates or friendly folks but have no time at all for gankers who just attack other folks with no reasonable goal.
Whilst we are on interdictions any of my PVE ships can avoid players/npcs, ive been here a while
As ive said before (and you have said) its pretty easy to get away without being blown up by a ganker, so what's the point? Im losing time, its really just a hindrance rather than any sort of 'Danger', i have never been killed by a player, ever, even when i started playing in Open at the beginning, its not rocket science to learn how to avoid it.
O7
I don't know, the literal years of more combat orientated players asking for content regarding their playstyle?
Its not a new thing.
If "your fun" is pilfering my rum, I'm more than happy to spoil your fun forever.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
To which the corollary is: "if your fun spoils my fun, and I can choose not to play with you, why would I choose to play with you?"
"No issue with Roleplaying pirates" is one I hear an awful lot. And guess what? I see as much vitriol or combat logging when engaging in that activity as I do when ganking. So I can tell you that it doesn't make any difference.My statement was nothing to do with how PvP works in Open but an opinion of the attitude of some folks who just because there is no play style for them chose to take it out on others.
I have no issue with Role playing pirates or friendly folks but have no time at all for gankers who just attack other folks with no reasonable goal.
Whilst we are on interdictions any of my PVE ships can avoid players/npcs, ive been here a while
As ive said before (and you have said) its pretty easy to get away without being blown up by a ganker, so what's the point? Im losing time, its really just a hindrance rather than any sort of 'Danger', i have never been killed by a player, ever, even when i started playing in Open at the beginning, its not rocket science to learn how to avoid it.
O7
Yeah.. I'm sure you have, doesn't mean anything pal, I've got over 10K hours between two platforms, doesn't effect the topic at hand.
One playstyle should not be left to stagnate because another playstyle feels like it can freely decide it so.
Competitive mechanics have to be dealt with in a competitive way. If you're fighting over territory, then it should be in the mode that supports actual confrontation, not where you get to be a ghost and mess around with stuff that effects other players with the only combating choice being to do the same as you are doing.
You can avoid PvP in Open, entirely if you're not new or have a half-decent ship. You cannot combat undermining in Solo or PG in Open because you're subject to requirements like having a well built ship or the potential of frequent interdictions. In the prior case, you can move less tonnage per hour than the guy in the other modes, so even if everything goes smoothly, you will still not equal their additions to the system and thusly they will win the territory war 10/10 times.
"You can't force us to play how you play!" Whilst by supporting competitive mechanics being available in Solo/PG, thats exactly what you're doing to us.
There is a huge level of hypocrisy to this. You can avoid PvP, damn it costing you time, you can avoid it, we can't combat your undermining without playing exactly as you do.
Why does it feel like some posters failed a Turing Test?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
When those competitive mechanics available in all three game modes don't require any player to engage in PvP, players engaging in those features in modes other than Open are simply playing by the actual rules of the game, not by out-of-game rules that some players choose to adhere to but notably cannot impose on any other player.
Likewise
Our playstyle in Solo or PG has no effect on you, you chose your own playstyle, we are not the ones wanting to force a different mode/playstyle on others.
Its not other players fault that Fdev (quiet rightly) gave everyone an option of how to play and enjoy this amazing game.
Yes i can so why should i bother wasting time?
Yes you can and unfortunately some nefarious folks are doing that at the moment (allegedly).
O7
Question in which is the correct playstyle that would be left to stagnate ?
Let's face it
These posts won't change people's views so they themselves become echo chambers
Of the sides shouting I am right .
Fdev does what they think is right and it doesn't matter how many hours of game play we all have they will probably go down a totally different route and we will be like WTH
Sad, but true.
Though if there are no voices pushing back, stuff is unlikely to ever change.
Open only powerplay is one subject, the acquisition of merits or powerplay modules is another.
If we don't point out why these things are problematic in thier current formats, then there is less chance of them being addressed. Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.
I do not have a link. But google searching for open weighted should come back with some proposals from Sandro I think. It was before my time, so those go back a few years at this point.
Yep we have been over that many times over the years, it has no relevance to todays discussion post PP2 launch.
O7
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Frontier have been aware that some players haven't accepted the design of the game for over a decade, just as they seem to be "well aware" that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP, and that while "a lot" of players engage in combat, "a lot" of players don't engage in combat "at all".
As to changing the game that every player bought with no game features (apart from CQC of course) requiring PvP, that does indeed seem to be a case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".
Hence the perpetual friction between some players who enjoy PvP (and can't accept that players don't need to play with them to affect mode shared game features) and players who have no interest in PvP and bought a game where the design of the game means that they don't have to play among those who would engage them in PvP.
Also, as i missed answering this question, in Open, neither do. You can do all the stuff you would normally do in Open, but you cannot do all the things you would in Open in Solo or PG.
PvP is totally avoidable in Open if you're not totally new or have a half-decently built ship. You can escape it as easily as an NPC. Guess what you can't do about players undermining your system in Solo or PG? Directly confront them.
Its that simple. Two modes lets players influence the galaxy as ghosts with no fear of recompense from their adversaries, they can undermine other player's contributions and never risk being touched or shot at, or even interdicted.
Meanwhile, the group that chose PvP as a playstyle, are either left without content due to this interaction, or are forced to play exactly as those in Solo/PG do to remain competitive despite said group being able to do the same activities in Open, but refusing to do so.
Competitive system should mean competitive gameplay in all its forms, not one group getting a distinct advantage and leaving another group with no options to combat them with their own playstyle choice.
One group is currently getting thier cake and eating it, the other is relegated to blowing up randoms because their choices have no weight and no gameplay.
As i mentioned earlier, its a very hypocritical situation for the Solo/PG only players to say "we dont want to be forced into PvP" when they are quite literally never forced into it due to how easy it is to escape it, whilst expecting the PvP players to play exactly as they do to have any ability to change the faction interplay.
We're already seeing huge problems due to the number of players exploiting datapoints from Solo and PG to push their factions, and guess what, you can't even try stop them doing it because they're in effect, ghosts. Granted its an exploit and should be fixed, however there would at least be a means of interrupting its frequency if they were able to be forcibly ejected from a power's system or settlement.
Edit:
If I had a dollar for every time I’d heard that from “PvPers” over the last 30 years, I’d be able to retire..
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Combat orientated players can have as much PvP as they want with others who wish to participate.
For as long as the more combat orientated players have been asking for changes to suit them, there has been a push back from those not interested in PvP.
If the open only advocates got their own Elite universe, would they all be happy? Most of them would be happy with this, but I suspect that those that just want to spoil the play of others (make ships go boom playstyle) would not be. No easy targets, just tooled up PvPers looking for a fight.