Modes "Open Play" Should be the Ideal Mode

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
With the current NPC mechanics, soloist flying shieldless are not taking a risk at all. They would be taking a risk flying shieldless in open however.

That they are taking no risk is an exaggeration. That the risk is likely to be lower than it would be if they happened to meet an opposing player is not in question.

However, other players are an entirely optional part of this game - for all players (with access to multi-player, of course, as not all players have access to multi-player).
 
That they are taking no risk is an exaggeration. That the risk is likely to be lower than it would be if they happened to meet an opposing player is not in question.

However, other players are an entirely optional part of this game - for all players (with access to multi-player, of course, as not all players have access to multi-player).

I disagree, as I'm sure you know.
Fdev have the info and we won't be seeing it. We can only infer things from proposals or introduced game mechanics.
 
Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not about piracy.
I'd like to address your point about exploration being the focus of the game (biggest point) and having full mechanical support. If that's true then the game is lacklustre to the point of meaningless. Honking and pressing J is exploring? Even with an imagination, the actual mechanics are pretty dull and uninspired. The things that can be found out in the black are also limited in the extreme.
I really believe the 4 billion star galaxy was mostly DB showing off! In addition to his love of astronomy, of course.
Trading is also pretty handicapped and simplistic as a mechanic. No trading licences to acquire, no fees, no alternative markets in systems, no bartering and a poorly implemented sense of a black market.

1.
I disagreed.
Your statement was that this Game is for most part about Ships and Shooting.
But while Fighting NPCs is clearly one of the Main Parts of the Game.
Its not the Sole and neither the Biggest Part of the Game.

2.
Well Mate. If thats all you understand ablut Exploration then I wonder if you ever actually bothered with the Topic.
From Guardian Ruins to Strange Plants and Thargoids. From Strange Star Constellations to unknown Drone Debris and deep canyons. From Nebulae and Star Systems out of reach for normal Jump Drives to Star Systems that Span almost a Light Year. From strange noises in the backround and data points that give non standard messages to permit locked systems in the middle of nowhere.

Exploration has been going like crazy. And while you apparently never bothered to look any closer than the System Cartography. Others have looked closer and found amazing things :)

Compared to that how much diversity is there in Combat ?
You target someone and honk the fire button till he is dead.
Oh how exciting lol.

3.
And the Trade System is fairly Complicated.
As some small critter you wont notice it.
Cause your few tons you ship make no difference.
But in the Larger Ships you can use Trade to not only heavily influence prices in entire regions.
You can even boost factions and cause Wars.
Moreover again. If for you Trade is just shipping a Good from A to B then you never bothered looking at it.
Trade encompasses services like Transports and Shipments. Getting Goods on Demand or even cause Famines to an Enemy or prevent one for your Allies.
Will you Ship Weapons and Rebels to cause a War?
Or Technology and Rich Folks to increase the Development level of the System and possibly get a New Station Build or an existing one Upgraded.



And well Mate.
Given that you have obviously never heard about 80% of the things you can do in this Game without shooting your lasers.
I would say I spoke for you pretty good there ;)
 
Challenge!

Explorers should be shot at because of challenge. Is that the grand total of the argument, or do you want some more time to think about it?

Honking and pressing J is exploring?
No darling, that's traveling. Even scanning isn't exploring.

Exploring in this game is fueled by curiosity, isn't rewarded and has zero in game support except for the amazing galaxy we're exploring in.

I go to places because I want to see them, fly around them. Look for planets with amazing skyboxes to drive around. Tourism exploring. I have found challenge in navigating parts of the galaxy with few stars in them. What I am not looking for, is being shot at.

If I want challenge I play Civ at Deity or They Are Billions on max settings.
 
Explorers should be shot at because of challenge. Is that the grand total of the argument, or do you want some more time to think about it?


No darling, that's traveling. Even scanning isn't exploring.

Exploring in this game is fueled by curiosity, isn't rewarded and has zero in game support except for the amazing galaxy we're exploring in.

I go to places because I want to see them, fly around them. Look for planets with amazing skyboxes to drive around. Tourism exploring. I have found challenge in navigating parts of the galaxy with few stars in them. What I am not looking for, is being shot at.

If I want challenge I play Civ at Deity or They Are Billions on max settings.

Oh, Ziggy, get your claws in darling.
Fair enough, you want to see the sights and I guess I'm biased about exploring effecting BGS so much and how the conflict between big powers vs. resources and influence might have an effect on Explorers data and all other manner of fantastic gameplay possibilities from such could be developed. It's all scuppered to irrelevancy due to tourism and selfies.
You and sunleader are in contradiction with each other about what exploring is but maybe that is the beauty of exploring that I'm so sadly missing.
I don't miss much with my guns though.;)
 
Sadly that is Lehman's way apparently. There seems to be no co-existing, only targets. And screw what the game advertised.

Lehman has worked cooperatively with my group and many others doing PvE stuffs. We've had a lot of fun!

It's okay, I understand that it's probably a bit of a stretch for you to accept that those who enjoy PvP also enjoy doing PvE things with friends too.
 
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So Basicly your out of Arguments and thus rather throw Personal Attacks at me than bothering with the Argument that you cannot Win ?
Fine with me. I Accept your Surrender. Have a Nice Day :)

No, I meant what I said. For example:
1) You claim there is about 80% of the game I don't know about.

2) How do we interact with guardian ruins, strange plants and Thargoids for the most part? I know a bit of scanning is involved . . . and the other interaction is?

3) Strange sounds, distant systems, data points and, best of all, permit locked systems!. The game play is where? I can see the tourist aspect of it no problem but the gameplay? This missing 80%?

4) Honk the fire button . . .Press other buttons too as well as move controllers, in coordinated sequence adapting to a rapidly changing scenario, trying to outpace an opponent. I understand that this probably holds far less entertainment for you than a "strange sound" in some isolated system but I hope you can appreciate the player input interaction required.

5) Trading isn't complicated nor deep at all although it does make a difference for the BGS as you said. However, that does include a few tons as a +1 bucket fill, so the 'little critter ship' actually is effective. As I'm sure you know, BGS has been touted as the indirect PvP component that all modes can affect and therefore has the potential to be challenging. It's used in PMF disputes as well as PP.

So, I'm still of the opinion that your post, where you are speaking for me, is biowaste. :)

As to your perception of my surrender and claim I'm out of arguments - am I missing 80% here too? I certainly didn't hear a strange sound.
 
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No, I meant what I said. For example:
1) You claim there is about 80% of the game I don't know about.

2) How do we interact with guardian ruins, strange plants and Thargoids for the most part? I know a bit of scanning is involved . . . and the other interaction is?

3) Strange sounds, distant systems, data points and, best of all, permit locked systems!. The game play is where? I can see the tourist aspect of it no problem but the gameplay? This missing 80%?

4) Honk the fire button . . .Press other buttons too as well as move controllers, in coordinated sequence adapting to a rapidly changing scenario, trying to outpace an opponent. I understand that this probably holds far less entertainment for you than a "strange sound" in some isolated system but I hope you can appreciate the player input interaction required.

5) Trading isn't complicated nor deep at all although it does make a difference for the BGS as you said. However, that does include a few tons as a +1 bucket fill, so the 'little critter ship' actually is effective. As I'm sure you know, BGS has been touted as the indirect PvP component that all modes can affect and therefore has the potential to be challenging. It's used in PMF disputes as well as PP.

So, I'm still of the opinion that your post, where you are speaking for me, is biowaste. :)

As to your perception of my surrender and claim I'm out of arguments - am I missing 80% here too? I certainly didn't hear a strange sound.

1.
At this Point I would assume it might be over 90%
Given that you cannot even comprehend what Exploration Means.
But well. As I said before. Your clearly this Type of Player which Equals Gameplay to Violence. For you its "No Shooting = No Gameplay"
Unfortunately. Your not alone on this World and while you might not care for anything that does not Fire your Guns. Others got a slightly Different Idea of what an Engaging Time is ;)
2.
Well Mate. How do you Interact with an Pirate NPC ? I know a bit of Shooting is Involved. And whats the other Interaction ? :)
Exploration is about Exploring Mate.
The Option to Scan them is just so that Button Mashers like you which cannot cant consider something Gameplay unless they have to Press a Button on it. Can do something with it.
The True Exploration however was Finding it. Solving the Riddles leading to it. Searching the Systems and Planets and Surveying them to actually Find the Ruin and Possibly further Potential Locations of Ruins.
The True Exploration is to find out what the Ruins are for what they were once and what they might mean to us in the Future ;)
Of course for that you would need to look beyond your own Doormat. And Realize that the Ruins are Shaped in a certain Way. And that there is a Reaction if you do certain things.
Not that you would ever notice something like that ;)
3.
Again Mate. What do you think Exploration is ? :)
Exploration is about Finding and Exploring Stuff.
The Strange Sounds that People heard when a Certain item was around. Was a Decoded Picture which Pointed the Way to another Location.
Of course thats nothing you would ever have realized. After all there was no Popup Message saying "Oh that Item is emitting a Strange Sound. Maybe we should try to check if its some sort of Code.

4.
Mate by that Logic if I want to Explore a System I also need to Press other Buttons and move my Controller in a coordinated sequence adapting to a rapidly changing scenario trying to find the right distance to the planet I want to scan and not crash into the Sun.
See Mate. Your a Button Masher.
For you. Gameplay is about Pressing the Fire Button.
Your a Typical Counterstrike Player which would likely completely fail at Americas Army.
Because in Counterstrike. Victory is mostly depending on your Button mashing Skills. Who Mashes his Button Faster and more Accurate at the Enemy.
In Americas Army however. 9 out of 10 Fights are Decided before anyone Presses the Fire Button. Because in Americas Army One or Two hits will Kill you and take you out of Combat.
There is no HP and when your Hit just once your Bleeding and will be about as accurate a Shooter as a 1900 Trench Gun on 500 meters.
The whole Game is about Tactics and Positioning. And if your in the Better Position you are pretty much Guaranteed to Win the Fight no matter how much better your Opponent is at Pressing his Button.
Of course this Kind of Game which Requires Thinking rather than Button Mashing is the Absolute Death for People like you :)
Because for you there is no Gameplay Involved.

Sorry Mate. But your so Shortsighted that you are Looking at your own Doormat and dont even realize that there is a Floor below it.
And the Joke is. You are on top of that not even Realizing that Maybe. Just Maybe others have a different View on things :)

5.
Well Mate. Thanks for Sharing with us that you have absolutely no Idea how the BGS or Trade System Works.
Because what you said just now is not only Factually Wrong but even Mixing up 2 different Systems which are working almost completely Independent from each other.




And well. I guess I overestimated you. I am sorry about that.
Just like Pigs have no Idea what the Difference between Rocks and Gold Coins are.
With your incredible Shortsighted View that cannot Identify anything unless the Game gives him a Popup Message to Honk him about it.
Its not Surprising that you would not be able to tell the Difference between Jewels and Biowaste ;)

And Yes. That Perceived Surrender was in Fact a Mistake on my Side.
To Surrender you would need to First Realize what your even Fighting.
But if you dont even Understand what your Opponent is Talking about then its not exactly possible for you to even tell just how Blind you are.
Its like a Swarm of Bees Attacking the Guy in the Protective Clothes. Not realizing that what they are Attacking is not that Guys Skin but just a Piece of Cloth that does neither Feel Pain nor cares for their Poison.


Well Mate.
I am sorry for Talking about stuff that you are Unable to Understand in the First Place.
Pls keep hunting these Pesky Pixels over your Screen while Mashing the Fire Button and just dont bother with anything beyond that.
Unfortunately I fear. That the Gameplay beyond Firing Guns at something is simply beyond your Capacity and thus not really an Option for you.
 
Hmmm, another thread where the PvP enthusiasts try to persuade the PvE players that they should enjoy becoming the PvP players' content at the expense of not being able to play the game the way they like. Riiight. Not.

That is not how human psychology works. I already posted some of my views on the topic here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...you-believe!?p=6529656&viewfull=1#post6529656

The following is to be understood as my personal opinion:

Let me emphasize one thing that apparently keeps eluding your minds - if Frontier decides to force me to play in Open PvP environment, there would be nothing here to make me play the game, therefore, not only would Frontier never ever see a single penny from me again, but you would still not be able to destroy my ship, because you would never again see me ingame. I suspect that quite a few other PvE players would choose the same option. The only result you would ever achieve with your have-your-free-time-wasted-by-us-while-you-must-learn-to-enjoy-it agenda would be the destruction of the whole game in the long run, because not only would you not be able to sustain the game on your own, but you would start whining because of the unchanged lack of targets and, eventually, you would move on to destroy another game.

You don't want to play the game with us, nor do you want to have competent opponents for PvP fights, you actually simply want more targets to destroy, preferably easy targets that are not equally equipped or trained in combat like you, and you want these targets to be controlled by humans, so that you can find more of your sick pleasure in causing discomfort and grief to people. That is the only logical explanation why you would force PvE players to have their ships destroyable by the likes of you.

It simply won't work...
 
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Very little sense, ridiculous analogies, zero proof or examples, stereotyping and a generous dose of ad hominem.
As I said originally, complete shyte.
Please, no more . . . I'm ready to surrender now!

Erm.
Mate. I am telling you about things to do in the Game.
If you want evidence maybe check them out in the game lol.
Or maybe just read the Gigantic Threads in this Forum where Canon and other groups of Explorers are constantly sharing their findings lol.

Then again. I doubt you would understand a word of whats reported there.
Have Fun Shooting Mate.
If your happy with the 10% of the Game you know thats great. I am glad you have Fun.
Just dont expect others to take kindly to your idea of them also limiting themselves to these 10%
Because they might be more interested in something out of the 90% of the Game which you dont seem to know anything about.
 
Hmmm, another thread where the PvP enthusiasts try to persuade the PvE players that they should enjoy becoming the PvP players' content at the expense of not being able to play the game the way they like. Riiight. Not.

That is not how human psychology works. I already posted some of my views on the topic here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...you-believe!?p=6529656&viewfull=1#post6529656

The following is to be understood as my personal opinion:

Let me emphasize one thing that apparently keeps eluding your minds - if Frontier decides to force me to play in Open PvP environment, there would be nothing here to make me play the game, therefore, not only would Frontier never ever see a single penny from me again, but you would still not be able to destroy my ship, because you would never again see me ingame. I suspect that quite a few other PvE players would choose the same option. The only result you would ever achieve with your have-your-free-time-wasted-by-us-while-you-must-learn-to-enjoy-it agenda would be the destruction of the whole game in the long run, because not only would you not be able to sustain the game on your own, but you would start whining because of the unchanged lack of targets and, eventually, you would move on to destroy another game.

You don't want to play the game with us, nor do you want to have competent opponents for PvP fights, you actually simply want more targets to destroy, preferably easy targets that are not equally equipped or trained in combat like you, and you wnat these targets to be controlled by humans, so that you can find more of the your sick pleasure in causing discomfort and grief to people. That is the only logical explanation why you would force PvE players to have their ships destroyable by the likes of you.

It simply won't work...

Amen Sir! :D
 
Hmmm, another thread where the PvP enthusiasts try to persuade the PvE players that they should enjoy becoming the PvP players' content at the expense of not being able to play the game the way they like. Riiight. Not.

That is not how human psychology works. I already posted some of my views on the topic here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...you-believe!?p=6529656&viewfull=1#post6529656

The following is to be understood as my personal opinion:

Let me emphasize one thing that apparently keeps eluding your minds - if Frontier decides to force me to play in Open PvP environment, there would be nothing here to make me play the game, therefore, not only would Frontier never ever see a single penny from me again, but you would still not be able to destroy my ship, because you would never again see me ingame. I suspect that quite a few other PvE players would choose the same option. The only result you would ever achieve with your have-your-free-time-wasted-by-us-while-you-must-learn-to-enjoy-it agenda would be the destruction of the whole game in the long run, because not only would you not be able to sustain the game on your own, but you would start whining because of the unchanged lack of targets and, eventually, you would move on to destroy another game.

You don't want to play the game with us, nor do you want to have competent opponents for PvP fights, you actually simply want more targets to destroy, preferably easy targets that are not equally equipped or trained in combat like you, and you want these targets to be controlled by humans, so that you can find more of your sick pleasure in causing discomfort and grief to people. That is the only logical explanation why you would force PvE players to have their ships destroyable by the likes of you.

It simply won't work...

Sums it up nicely.
 
It's a nice idea but I think it's a pipe dream. Elite has always been many things to many people and, whether you like it or not, there is no one way to play.

  1. Combat Logging No longer exists. Instancing issues are mostly non-existent. Dedicated servers allow large numbers of players to be in the same instance.
The first is impossible, the proposed Karma system might help, but there will always remain legitimate lost connections and so some legitimate logging will slip through the cracks/leeway required to account for those.

The second is a network infrastructure issue more than anything else, as Frontier have said on the LAN they can instance hundreds and hundreds of players. The issue is the wide variety and reliability of consumer internet connections. The only time this will get solved is when internet access becomes a "human right" and there are global requirements in place.. even then, the basic requirement might not be up to gaming levels.

We're never going to get dedicated servers. I don't think people truly understand the scale of work involved to re-write the networking model for a game. Plus, there are likely business (as in cost) issues with such a model. The reason Elite doesn't have a subscription is the (relatively) lower cost of the P2P model.

  1. Progression through the game is balanced and fair. Skill determines progression rather than time spent in-game. There are meaningful rewards for every profession and playstyle, and players earn greater rewards as they go along.
Elite is not a competition between players (other than direct PvP) so we truly don't need "balanced and fair" progression. I couldn't care less about another player's progression. But, it would be nice for there to be more gameplay around various professions, like Pirates.

  1. PVP and Combat are balanced. The rewards and losses associated with PvP and Combat fit the skill level of a player. No loss or victory feels easy.
I don't think you know your audience ;) PvP players don't want balanced, they want a "tactical" engagement where the "good" players are those who ensure they have the advantage in each engagement of the "war".

  1. The ship roster is balanced. There are no seemingly perfect or "must buy" ships. There are ships at nearly every price point. No ship ever feels invincible.
I don't think this is possible in an interesting system, there has to be better choices or there is no achievement to be had when that combination is found, this is the challenge for some players, tweaking builds to get the min/max numbers they desire. This is a game in and of itself.

  1. Player groups and Multiplayer actions have a huge impact on the game. Players are rewarded sufficiently for all multiplayer activities. Unique rewards can also be found in playing alone. There's a functioning and useful multiplayer element for each playstyle and profession.
Quite frankly, impossible. Or rather, as soon as the game looks sufficiently different in any given mode people will complain about what they don't have.
 
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