Modes Open PVE mode - partial solution to community division?

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Deleted member 115407

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What floors me is not only has this topic been rehashed 17,000 times, but that it wasn't swiftly whisked off to either the suggestion or modes sub where it belongs.
 
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Deleted member 115407

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Also, I prefer the current options - ig you want free social interaction you have to put your on the line.
 
+1 for Open PvE! This needs to happen, also fragments the playerbase less over the various Mobius group, as MadDogMurdock said.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Open PvE mode would have to be more than a simple instancing filter.

Good point.

If people want to hang out and be sociable with less risk, they should stay in hisec. Granted, that's no guarantee of safety, but the game already bends over backward to protect those who won't protect themselves.

Oh please, that is not really the case. C&P is still bit of a joke. Hopefully Karma system will complete it nicely.

On the other hand, fixing the issues you highlighted with private groups would be beneficial to all without requiring extensive changes to the game.

A group management interface where you could assign roles and delegate admin responsibilities would be awesome.

Yes, all very true.

Besides, you can't really base the desire for an open PvE mode on the number of mobius members.

Even I am a member.

Practically everyone I know has been a member of some mobius group or another at some point.

That's why I tried to avoid words like "majority", "minority", "steam stats", "we", "the players want" etc. The only true stats are the ones that FDEV has. My thread is just a proposal. If they read it and think it's a valid and reasonable one, they may look at implementing this.

Like I said - IMHO this would be beneficial for the community as a whole, even though I would not use it myself for most of the time.
 
I don't know, I never thought of asking for that. It's a great idea as well and I assure you that if there was a sufficient functionality for Groups, I would never ask for Open PVE mode.

The main point and the principle of my idea is to provide an unlimited (aka Open) environment for players that want to socialise, but don't want PVP. Whether it is via Private Groups or Open PVE mode is really not that important IMHO.

The only downside I see with doing this via PG's is still relying on a single individual to organise and manage a PG. That would be more like a lot of private servers with their own rules, but if the owner goes AWOL, that's it, the PG is dead, because it would just degrade due to lack of management.

That's why Open PVE will always be better. It's just another official mode that you can join.

Really, I don't understand why you would support improved PGs and not Open PVE - it would be essentially the same thing, when it comes to the effect on your experience.

I've made this suggestion before in the Hotel, too.

Remove player limit and give the admins the proper tools to enable the -100% player-to-player damage threshold.

It can be done by using the existing code in the Wings system. Simply remove "friendly fire" and the group size limit, and you'll have Open PvE.

As the change has nothing to do with PvP players (because they don't play in Mobius) it's truly amazing how it hasn't been implemented as an option already given how simple it is.

Those who want "friendly fire" or to engage others can then go to Open as they wish.
 
The PvE only mode should be DISABLED if you are in Hostile territory as that would just be unfair on the opposition
 
The PvE only mode should be DISABLED if you are in Hostile territory as that would just be unfair on the opposition

There's no "hostile territory" in Open PvE mode. Think of it as a completely different house.

You in yours (Open PvP), me in mine (Open PvE).

What I do in mine simply has no relevance to what you're doing in yours.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
C&P a bit of a joke? Go kill some harmless sideys in a PvP fit FDL.

We're going into offtopic territory here, but let's talk about that for a sec. OK, so it may be improved for that kind of scenario, but I'm not in a harmless Sidey, I'm in a heavily engineered Anaconda. More on that in a minute.

Each kill will add around 100% of the value of your ship to your rebuy. That stays with the ship forever unless you pay it off at the IF with a penalty. Sure, its fairly easy to get money. But it takes a lot of money to fund a criminal career these days. Even if you find a gold rush, it takes a lot of time.

Honestly, how many billions have you got on your Bank of Zaonce account? But yeah, let's say that holds. I could argue, but there are a lot of people without gazillion of Credits. Let's say I agree.

Aside from that, the NPC's harass you unendingly when you play as a criminal.

But this, come on now, you know well that NPC's are at most a mild annoyance in this game, ever since Mistress of Minions flicked The Switch sometime ago during Season 2 after the forums were flooded with tears of those that couldn't cope with them. Especially for a seasoned PVP-er in an engineered ship, don't tell me they are any danger to you. Unless they are ATR which have a response time of an old, wounded turtle after 2 strokes and with a broken leg.

But to bring this back on topic - yet still in C&P territory - remember when I said I would use Open PVP for the most part? Well there are 2 instances where I would happily use Open PVE mode:

Number 1) Trading CG's with no opposing CG's.

As I said, I sport a heavily engineered Conda. I have sacrificed my cargo space for a size 7 shield gen with loads of boosters (all utils, apart from 1 heat sink), I have further sacrificed my cargo space for a class 6 hangar bay, so I have 2 SLF's available at all times, I commited time to fully engineer ALL of my modules with the guidance of some experienced PVP friends. All this to increase survivability of my ship.

Now I fully accept all the consequences of Open play, I never combat log, be it cable or menu, I never hide in Solo - I do like the thrill of Open. However - at the same time I want the game to be fun for me, that's the main reason I play it. So when I get interdicted during a CG with my cargo hold filled to the top, I try to escape, because fighting 3 or 4 PVP ships with a loaded up Conda is a suicide. Because my ship is well engineered, gankers can pretty much never take my shields down, I don't even have to use SCB most of the time.

Now, I let them interdict me 3, 4, 5 times, but when it's clear nobody will win, it just starts getting annoying and stops being fun. And you know that well organised wing of gankers can chain interdict me forever. I don't have the time for that kind of stuff. If I survived the same encounter 3, 4, 5 times, I will survive it another 5. And we all know they do it for teh lulz and the only reason they keep doing it even if they know well they won't be able to destroy my ship is because they don't have enough salt on their chips.

So at that point I usually try to communicate with them, which is met with dead silence in 99.9% of the cases. Next move is block. But then I get shouted at that I cheat.

That's where the PVE mode comes in - it stops the annoyance and allows me not to be "content" for a bunch of kids with emotional issues trying to make up for the fact that mother nature wasn't very generous when it comes to private parts or whatever, and instead log in to equally open environment, but without the annoying element of mindless gankers.


Number 2) Alien sites / other similar exploration hot systems

Very similar, the idea of being someones "content" in those places does not really correspond with my idea of fun. I go to such places to explore, feel the atmosphere of an alien place, maybe do some science stuff. Again, Open PVE to the rescue.

And don't even give me any of that "But they just role play [alien protector / silent ruthless assassin / mass murderer]", because we all know that his is true maybe for 0.1% of the gankers out there, and the rest just uses that as an excuse to cause grief. Because one day they are "friends of Thargoids", but a week later they are "protecting Guardian ruins" even though the 2 races are deadly enemies, to then appear at a trade CG that attempts to preserve the memories about human race and claim that they are "just against that fanatic Antal" or whatever. No no no, we all know WHY the gankers gank and WHY the griefers grief.

They miss salt on their chips.

And I'm sorry, my salt is mine and nobody else's. If Open PVE mode is to allow to have gank-free experience when I feel that's not what I want tonight, then let FDEV implement it full time.
 
There's no "hostile territory" in Open PvE mode. Think of it as a completely different house.

You in yours (Open PvP), me in mine (Open PvE).

What I do in mine simply has no relevance to what you're doing in yours.

So being open what about PowerPlay etc?
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Clearly you've never been on the receiving end of a hisec ATR spawn. I've had them ram my ship when they drop in 10 seconds after the first shot is fired

No, I haven't. I'm glad to hear that. No maliciousness here, I'm genuinely glad that ATR works better than I thought.

But the really annoying part is the constant NPC interdictions. These NPC's appear magically whenever a player spawns in my instance (or sometimes just before I'm in position to interdict [blah]).

They have cost me more than a few targets.

But they didn't cost you a ship yet, did they?

Why would an enemy who is trying to destroy you open comms with you? The only thing comms are good for in such situations is taunting your opponent in the hope that it will cause them to make a mistake.

If it were me, I'd be tempted to start up a nice convo while I got some more guys to show up.

Fair enough.

You might survive interdiction another 5 times. You might not. Maybe your attacker changes weapons or tactics and brings you down on that tenth interdiction.

Yeah, sorry, usually I don't have that much time to waste and it's not fun TO ME.

Anyway, why should you be exempt from hostile interaction just because you think it is pointless?

Because it's not fun TO ME and I have the full right to enjoy the game on my terms as the guy who thinks it's fun to annoy the hell outta me while I'm trying to deliver some cargo.


Those dang NPC's don't ask my opinion before they interdict.

Make a suggestion thread to nerf them. FDEV have been known to unleash the nerfbat if enough people cry about something ;) :D


Sure there are some people who do it for the salt, but so what?

But so that it is my choice not to have an interaction with them, because they don't bring anything positive to my gaming experience, as opposed to non-violent people that I can have possibly a nice conversation with while delivering stuff in Open PVE mode :)

What about the rest of us who desire only violence?

You still have all the rest of your buddies that WANT to do PVP and are OK with having that kind of interactions. They would all be playing in Open PVP mode, because they apparently hate the idea of Open PVE mode.

If the violence is all you seek in the game, why not just go a CZ site?

Also, and please answer this one, if the violence is all you seek, it surely doesn't make a difference to you if you attack a trader that can only hope to escape or a another fully engineered PVP kitted fighter class ship?

It actually makes sense that some people would oppose those who would disturb ancient alien ruins. Nothing good ever comes from poking around such ruins carelessly.

OK, so the guardian sites have been mostly harmless so far (other than imposing their mindless drudgery on hapless commanders). But that didn't go so well with the Thargoid sites.

Sure we got some crappy weapons, but how close to Sol are they now?

And you REALLY care so much about it? If so, fair, you're the 1% of PVP-ers that care about that stuff, rather than looking for cheap excuse to shoot anything that is a hollow square. I'm pretty sure the remaining 99% are just using that as an excuse.

Maybe some do just want to see the world burn.

But...

Who are you to judge?

No one. I am not judging. I am choosing not to have an interaction with people that I despise.

Just as you are no one to judge me and my desire to avoid such types.

Now you have the Open mode to set the world ablaze with unlimited number of players.

I don't the PVE equivalent. Hence I'm asking the developer for one.
 
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rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
I was just ribbing you about being judgemental.

Likewise with some of my comments ;)

But what you're asking for is a whole new mode, when some small improvements to PG functionality would not only solve the perceived problem, but benefit all players, regardless of their reasons for using a PG.

Yes, I already agreed on that. I may actually make that thread too (honestly, who makes a list and doesn't sort it in any way? My OCD kills me here!).

You can avoid hostile interactions easily enough with what the game already has.

Yes, but they can get annoying very quickly and I have enough annoying people around me day to day. Last thing I want is to meet them in a video game I love and that I play to relax.

What you ask for is a happy utopia mode.

The game will never benefit from allowing players to avoid any risk they deem undesirable.

Pretty much every single MMO game out there has a PVE mode and they are doing just fine. I've been playing World of Warcraft back in a day and I've had characters on both PVE and PVP servers. Both were equally entertaining, although for different reasons.

When it comes to attacking traders, I just kill them in whatever. It hardly matters.

No, I meant - if the violence is all you seek in game, does it make a difference to you if you attack a trading ship or a engineered fighter?

I really don't get the fixation on the attackers motives though.

I mean... I get it, but I don't see why so many let it get to them.

You're here, I'm here... shots are going to be fired.

Doesn't really matter where "here" is.

Can't speak for others - but for me, because Elite is more than just a game to me. It's my passion, I love this game and I would like for it to be a deep, meaningful experience (as a side note, it actually lacks in many aspects in providing me so). When someone shoots me for teh lulz - to me it's not deep. To me the reason matters. I role play this game and I would prefer to have role playing interactions rather than have people shoot me for no reason whatsoever and then tell me "why you so angry, it's just pixels dude". Well it's more than pixels to me.

Some will understand that, some won't. It doesn't change the fact, that this stuff matters to me personally.

(Before you say "but how PVE can be deep and meaningful" - to me it's the lesser evil).
 
How about blocking all the gankers/griefers and you have an kind of open pve.

The game will be still as bad or good as it is, but after some days you can fly open and play your pve game.

Oh, and OOPP will be still abused by 5c and be a senseless grinding future if nothing will be changed just going open.
 
I've seen it nearly universally agreed upon that Elite needs a PvE mode. And that it's been totally silly that the onus has been falling on Mobius all these years to run the gig in Fdev's place.

It's a band-aid that has to be continually changed and maintained by a player.

Long overdue for Fdev to step up, take responsibility, and make an official PvE mode.
 
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