Opinion on Orcas

Rottenberry

Rottenberry
Tbh I'm expecting their to be a DLC later down the line that features an aquatic DLC which would feature animals such as Seals, sea lions, dolphines etc. However there has been a lot of speculation about Orcas. While I have watched documentaries like BlackFish and understand the implications of having Orcas in captivity. I understand this is a game, its not real so there is no real implications from having orcas in the game but it is still a very grey subject area imo.

What are all of your opinions of Orcas as DLC?
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Rottenberry said:
Tbh I'm expecting their to be a DLC later down the line that features an aquatic DLC which would feature animals such as Seals, sea lions, dolphines etc. However there has been a lot of speculation about Orcas. While I have watched documentaries like BlackFish and understand the implications of having Orcas in captivity. I understand this is a game, its not real so there is no real implications from having orcas in the game but it is still a very grey subject area imo.

What are all of your opinions of Orcas as DLC?
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If I understand it correctly, one of the big points of PZ will be breeding and wildlife preservation, so it's safe to assume that it would be the same for Orcas - breed them, raise them (look at them during the process) and release them. So even from this standpoint it will be "morally acceptable".
Nothing wrong with teaching them a few tricks during their captivity. :)
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Chris Simon said:
If I understand it correctly, one of the big points of PZ will be breeding and wildlife preservation, so it's safe to assume that it would be the same for Orcas - breed them, raise them (look at them during the process) and release them. So even from this standpoint it will be "morally acceptable".
Nothing wrong with teaching them a few tricks during their captivity. :)
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So yeah, I'd be for some sort of aquatic DLC. But who knows, maybe we'll get them in the base game. Or at least some of the water-dwelling animals like penguins and otters, maybe even dolphins could be in the base game, I think.

edit: sorry for double post, I pressed reply instead of edit. :rolleyes:
 

unseraphim

unseraphim
the idea of planet zoo seems to be conservation and the ability to provide adequate space and familiarity to a species in a man-made environment. an aquatic DLC would be fantastic with emphasis on their required space and enrichment. Blackfish was a highlight of the mistreatment of orcas and other aquatic mammals, and hopefully, planet zoo takes an approach that can avoid any controversy in that respect.
 

eulemur

eulemur
I agree that it has the potential to be a tricky subject. As it goes, there are arguments against keeping many animals in captivity - elephants are the big one recently in the zoo community - that have to be carefully tackled in games like these. When Marine Mania was released as an expansion to zoo tycoon 2 there wasn't nearly the same level of controversy surrounding killer whales in captivity as there is now, and it would be understandable if that swayed the devs decision to include them in the game at all.

From what I've read from those who played the game pre-alpha, the needs of the animals are complex (a la JWE, I presume, but maybe even more detailed than that?). I think a good way of tackling these controversially-kept animals ingame would be to make them high-risk, high-reward. That being, high requirements to keep them happy, but much to gain in terms of guest satisfaction, zoo fame, breeding success etc. if they are. I suspect the game will penalise you for poor welfare regardless, just as PlanCo penalises unhappy guests and JWE penalises poorly cared for dinosaurs. Personally I would like this to be deeper in Planet Zoo, for example animals being confiscated if they aren't cared for properly, animal rights groups protesting certain practices etc. though we will see how it goes on that front.

Tl;dr If handled properly killer whales would be a fun and even educational addition to the game.

In terms of killer whales being in the game, though, I doubt we will see many aquatic creatures in the base game aside from perhaps penguins and polar bears. I am 99% certain we will get a marine expansion down the road, though, a la zoo tycoon, wildlife park etc. It makes sense for the devs to play it that way.
 

unseraphim

unseraphim
eulemur said:
I think a good way of tackling these controversially-kept animals ingame would be to make them high-risk, high-reward.
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this would be a splendid way to gauge the level of conscious awareness people have on these marine animals when deciding to dabble in placing them in their park.
i also agree that negative media attention, protests, and even legal ramifications in-game could be a 'good' bad consequence to help people become aware of their decisions.
 

Skawt

Skawt
I think of it as a challenge. Can you breed, nurture, and provide enough care that they're happy AND healthy? Can you do what what other parks have failed at (according to criticism)?

In the end, it's a game. It could also be an opportunity to create your vision on what's acceptable.
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Skawt said:
I think of it as a challenge. Can you breed, nurture, and provide enough care that they're happy AND healthy? Can you do what what other parks have failed at (according to criticism)?

In the end, it's a game. It could also be an opportunity to create your vision on what's acceptable.
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I believe Frontier very much aims at education with this one. I'm really interested how the whole thing will work and feel.
 

Skele.kytten

S
Rottenberry said:
Tbh I'm expecting their to be a DLC later down the line that features an aquatic DLC which would feature animals such as Seals, sea lions, dolphines etc. However there has been a lot of speculation about Orcas. While I have watched documentaries like BlackFish and understand the implications of having Orcas in captivity. I understand this is a game, its not real so there is no real implications from having orcas in the game but it is still a very grey subject area imo.

What are all of your opinions of Orcas as DLC?
Click to expand...

If there is an aquatic DLC then having Orcas is a huge part of that. Yes, it's bad to have Orcas in captivity in real life. However, this is a game...so no real Orcas would be harmed. They are a large part of some real life parks, so not including them would make things feel empty (least in a game). Also, it would up to the player whether or not they want to have Orcas in their park. Those that feel keeping an Orca in captivity is cruel can choose to leave them out...just like any real aquatic animal park. I don't agree with REAL Orcas being kept in tanks...but in a game I totally would. I love Orcas. Not only would they be great way to add more education to the game, but they could also be a challenge to keep...Some guests in your game may feel unhappy after seeing them.. Orcas could have high comfort levels and be hard to keep happy,.ect...it's a good challenge and could add a bit of depth.
 

HappyPanda

H
I'm pretty against cetaceans (dolphins and whales) being kept in captivity, but I would love to have them in Planet Zoo, as I loved them in the Zoo Tycoon series. It's just a game, so there's no harm being done to real animals. I think the potential controversy would be minimal or even null if implemented well!
 

Kaan

Kaan
Skele.kyetten and HappyPanda
I agree, buddy. These thoughts are ridiculous. There is no need to discuss this issue unnecessarily. I'm telling this everywhere, it's just a video game. I did a poll on my video and even shared it on the forum. Only 3 of the 30 people in the survey said no. You may not place orca in your park if you don't want to. It's that simple. We will do our best to take good care of them in the game. No captivity in the game. I think the blackfish documentary is a bit fake when I think a little. Again say, it's just a video game. So think about us a little. (I would like to have the killer whale and dolphin performances in the game, because I know that the concept of captivity that you don't have to do with captivity while playing this game will not even go through our minds)
 
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WingardiumLevicoaster

Volunteer Moderator
WingardiumLevicoaster
I think this issue exists for all animals. Not just orcas. Zoos are a complex moral grey area. I know Orcas are one of the more public issues.. but I don't agree with focussing on one animal. I believe in equality for all. 😀 If the game focuses on conservation , wild releases and punishes horrible practices of confined enclosures, I'm happy. In real life, I'm less happy but as it's a game.. I will accept it if it's made clear what is and isn't ok. ( As a game could still help perpetuate the opinion that it's ok to enclose animals for entertainment, which could keep public opinions on the subject a certain way).
 

Kaan

Kaan
For example, if we make a show of killer whales. But if there is no food in front of the orcas and if they are starving. in the game us a large amount of punishment may come. Or, killer whales can be confiscated. That would be sweet.
 

VictorAraujo

VictorAraujo
I'm fascinated by orcas. I believe that a future DLC with marine animals is a promising bet and with that we will inevitably have them.
 

DinoTamer

DinoTamer
WingardiumLevicoaster said:
I think this issue exists for all animals. Not just orcas. Zoos are a complex moral grey area. I know Orcas are one of the more public issues.. but I don't agree with focussing on one animal. I believe in equality for all. 😀 If the game focuses on conservation , wild releases and punishes horrible practices of confined enclosures, I'm happy. In real life, I'm less happy but as it's a game.. I will accept it if it's made clear what is and isn't ok. ( As a game could still help perpetuate the opinion that it's ok to enclose animals for entertainment, which could keep public opinions on the subject a certain way).
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Absolutely agree.
Let's not forget that another purpose of this game is to spread information about those animals that live in our zoos.
With this in mind, any animal can be in Planet Zoo, as long as the mechanics of the game reward players who treat animals well.
 

JTPorach

J
i would like orcas in the game maybe not for shows cause PETA is a huge jerk but the game is about managing a zoo and conservation so yeah have orcas and dolphins etc as for my opinion on zoos as long as they are run well and the animals are welled cared for I'm happy the zoos in my home state of Ohio are really good
 
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