Overhaul of pvp, bgs, and powerplay
- Thread starter mephisto9466
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You've got to just drop the idea of Open PP, taking a feature away from other modes isn't a good idea, nor is it really productive to keep pushing it. Don't lean on that as an idea; it's regressive, not progressive.
The things I listed off would be rewards for continued investment in PP, unlike the modules which you buy once and are pretty much done with. Leaving a power would mean those benefits go out the window.
One of the big issues with Open is that if somebody wants to run your blockade, they can just block you and...tada! Blockade nullified. So focus instead on how you being there in the system could affect somebody in Solo/PG. Imagine if the game spawned more Power-specific ships based on how many pledged players were in the system - higher-ranked with the power means more powerful and aggressive ships. Just an example.
You're not going to get anywhere trying to take PP away from two modes, and between the Block function and Consoles, you're not going to be able to affect everyone anyway. So think instead about how you could affect those players in other modes and on other platforms.
The problem is that all of ED is bucket filling and that too many features overlap. CGs are the closest relative to PP magnified fifty to a hundred times over each week and neither are wildly successful. Haul one thing, shoot one thing. The problem is that its one speed gameplay and although you have a setup for opposition / aggressors modes generally hold them back. For example with a CG: in all modes people can just keep on trucking along with minimal interference. In Open there is then the possibility for other players to oppose and complicate things. They could slow the CG down- in the context of the current Fed Imp CG that could and would make for an interesting complication. Now apply that to Powerplay each week- PvP then acts as an interesting disruptor.
But currently PP is PvE with nothing else. People realize that to win you truck more and no NPC will ever touch you- which is dull and a poor relation to the BGS.
The BGS is popular because its had years of development and several iterations. Powerplays two PvE tasks have had exactly nothing added to them and its that which is the problem. It was a more advanced version of the BGS in 1.3 (as in, it was a territorial game with teams- however the BGS and its development have slowly mirrored this aspect).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I strongly doubt that assumption will prove to be accurate.
The removal of Solo and Private Groups (or the effect of players playing in those game modes on the BGS, Powerplay, etc.) has been proposed / demanded, by some players, for years.
While some players would no doubt welcome such a change, that cannot be said for all players - and Frontier would seem to be "well aware" that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP (even if the majority of players play in Open).
We all bought a game where other players are optional - which means that PvP is optional.
... then there's the inconvenient fact that Frontier have stuck to their game design, published over seven years ago, with regard to the three game modes / single shared galaxy state - and reiterated their stance on the topic comparatively recently, i.e. the BGS is for all players, regardless of platform or game mode.
1) The proposed "PvP flag" is not a PvP flag at all - enhanced security response is merely a challenge for those seeking PvP as to how long they'll survive after attacking a player disinterested in PvP. A true PvP flag would disable player/player damage.
2) Contrary to the belief of some, experiencing and affecting the BGS from Solo is a design feature, not a cheat.
3) We are awaiting Frontier's determination as to which of the proposals Sandro made in the first Flash Topic on Powerplay will be implemented.
4) I expect that it's more likely that Frontier would create a PvP only second galaxy than they would be to remove Solo and Private Groups. We'll see, in time, what they choose to do.
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One simple example why I do not like this suggestion. I sometimes do exploration. And my exploration ship is unarmed, nearly unshielded thing. Weapons and bigger shields are unneeded weight 99.99% of time. In fact when I'm deep in the black I usually play in Open, very small probability to see anyone there, and if I see anyone it is big probability that other one is explorer too, and has likewise ship. But when I'm coming back with all that data tediously gathered over weeks and months, I'm in solo mode. No reason to risk all that stuff for someones "lulz content". That ship would likely be blasted to smithereens way faster than any ATR (minus one with instant kill switch and instant reaction) can help me.
Okay I may then modify my ship to carry weapons and big shields. YAY. But then my jump ability tanks, many places become essentially unreachable, and I still don't need those modules 99.99% of time.
But ok, if all weapon engineering is removed from game, and weapons are just what one can buy in current a-rate power. That essentially (while shield engineering is in place.) removes insta-kill killing machines from game.
Okay I may then modify my ship to carry weapons and big shields. YAY. But then my jump ability tanks, many places become essentially unreachable, and I still don't need those modules 99.99% of time.
But ok, if all weapon engineering is removed from game, and weapons are just what one can buy in current a-rate power. That essentially (while shield engineering is in place.) removes insta-kill killing machines from game.
Sour, overly focused, grapes. I will remind you that I am responding to you with the OP in mind. This is attempting to make PP the topic of discussion, and I'm not into that. I got my Prismatics already...
If you have a BGS that does what PP was supposed to do, PP has to offer something unique. Offering more baubles to keep doing the same things won't make PP come back to life but just make people randomly dump stuff to get them. Buying attention is not solving the underlying problem that ED has features that all tread on each other.
But then you are playing for the baubles, not the improvement of your power.
Thats why I suggested modification of the blocking rules in PP, since you pledge and openly enter the feature (i.e. its not logical to opt into a conflict and not expect to get shot).
Which won't work currently. There is a set ratio mix of PP NPCs, pirates, security etc that rules this out. Plus non pledges complained in ages past about the amount that were about before.
And, if you read this you'll see that I'm not trying to take it away:
Powerplay proposal: split tasks to suit each mode, elaborates on Sandros last ideas
Please be aware this suggestion has been superseded by more recent ones like this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal-strong-anti-5c-mode-specific-plus-other-tweaks.552045/ For reference: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/#post6696898...
I also try hard to make mode agnostic versions as well:
'Inverted' NPC Driven Powerplay where teamplay means survival
A random thought I wanted to externalise before I forget it. Problem: in Powerplay you have two 'phases' of play- merit earning in PvE zones and merit dropping (hauling, sniping etc). In the latter you do not have effective opposition, or opposition that reacts to your efforts. This idea might...
Plus looking at it from a BGS angle:
[POWERPLAY] Proposal for redesign using BGS style mechanics that work with the new BGS
Here is an alternative concept for Powerplay, where Powerplay works like a modifier for the BGS to make each system more unique. Unlike the current system it simulates the political aspect and is 5C proof. Powerplay V2: Expansions / prep / CC / bubbles removed and each system has every power...
Or mixing new mechanics with old ones:
Powerplay - Powerplay V.2 using Squadron / megaship mechanics
Wall of text alert! Powerplay is all about people (us) who support a leader who appeals to our sense of moral (im)purity and values (or lack of them!). We support them outside of the law, in essence we are paramilitary groups fighting over who is 'right'. Powerplay is always seen as an...
However- my frame of reference is Sandros proposal because it shows the amount of work FD want to put into Powerplay. Only the first fits the restrictions.
Er no. I gave my opinion that the idea is good because its streamlined and simple, but the downside is the BGS does not work well at a functional level in Open only with or without flags (IMO at least). I'm also trying to illustrate that Open Only Powerplay does work and respond to your points.
This is not my intention and I apologize to the OP if this is the case.
However the sour grapes come from you it seems.
Sigh. Okay.
You're arguing against the specifics and not the idea. The idea is persistent rewards, since the modules are one-and-done.
If you want improvement of your power to be a priority, make change a driver for incentives. Offer rewards for when the power increases in rank, scaling by rank within the power. Newly controlled systems will have X discount or X trade benefit for pledged members.
Rewards could be a flat ARX bonus outside, maybe even outside the cap; make use of the meta-currency. Or give the opportunity to buy the unique modules for another power in a system of theirs you've taken over, with a higher rank requirement.
Just wanting to remove PG and Solo from the equation isn't going to solve PP's problems. It's just taking a hatchet to a hangnail.
No reason to respond to all the OP's points, so I'll comment on one suggestion I think hasn't been fully fledged out: PvP flag turned on because one is aligned with a minor faction. This appears to make the assumption that one is always playing the BGS.
Would toggling it off require un-aligning with the minor faction while I do other things, not specifically for the BGS, even if almost all activity in the game affects the BGS somewhere?
Would toggling it off require un-aligning with the minor faction while I do other things, not specifically for the BGS, even if almost all activity in the game affects the BGS somewhere?
Here an idea mephisto9466. Why don't you read the other tread first with the same supid ideas like this. I can only play on solo mode. So if you are trying to force me to play in open. Then you pay for Console $120 fee.
You lost me at "Remove Solo and Private". Why should I read this thread when I've already seen the 50 previous copies of it?
BTW I thought I'd try Open at the CG the other day. I logged in, launched, went into supercruise and saw two hollow squares. One immediately turned into a triangle, the other one bounced around, rubber-banding over half the system. I logged out again and went back to Mobius.
BTW I thought I'd try Open at the CG the other day. I logged in, launched, went into supercruise and saw two hollow squares. One immediately turned into a triangle, the other one bounced around, rubber-banding over half the system. I logged out again and went back to Mobius.
What I find funny is how the same argument that I would apply to people who are unhappy about other players blowing up their ships in open also applies here:
This is the game. Frontier have made no indication that this will change. We work with it or decide that we can't and move on.
Both 'issues' (if you wish to call them that) have been in the game from the start, unchanged. Maybe it's because Frontier want the game to be the way it is in that respect.
This is the game. Frontier have made no indication that this will change. We work with it or decide that we can't and move on.
Both 'issues' (if you wish to call them that) have been in the game from the start, unchanged. Maybe it's because Frontier want the game to be the way it is in that respect.
Short answer - No to all the above, just another PvP centric brain crash suggestion thread.
Solo and Private Group allow individuals to play ED regardless of the level of their internet connection and console owners without the premium subscription can not play in anything but Solo anyway. Long and the short of it - All 3 modes need to stay for a variety of reasons.
Solo and Private Group allow individuals to play ED regardless of the level of their internet connection and console owners without the premium subscription can not play in anything but Solo anyway. Long and the short of it - All 3 modes need to stay for a variety of reasons.
A lot of your ideas already exist in Powerplay but have been buried. I get exactly what you mean, but it does not lead to a coherent experience because rather than developing a considered group strategy for long term survival, you are encouraging uncontrolled bouts of boom and bust driven by individuals which have no direction.
So (from your other post):
"Special SLFs, access to unique/cheaper NPC Crew, a flat ARX income amount on the weekly reset based on rank, access to favorable material traders, access to a unique Engineer that exists outside of the unlock-chain. Non-permanent things that would become unavailable without continued participation."
Special SLF (fixed reward, totally unlike a unique module then.)
access to unique/cheaper NPC Crew (how does this differ from bonuses now? My power at R5 makes me immune to bounties. Thats surely a reward for persistence?)
a flat ARX income amount on the weekly reset based on rank (with the state of bots / AFK bots and 5C, this would really be a good idea to incentivize it further)
access to favorable material traders (I'd like this)
access to a unique Engineer that exists outside of the unlock-chain (again nice, but is this simply adding to the grind to get the things you want? So rather than get a prismatic shield, people will unlock them, engineer and then go away again. If people complain now about unlocking one module, how will they react to this?)
"Offer rewards for when the power increases in rank,"
This already happens with the 321 rewards. But again, most powers will never see high ranks unless they simply forget about strategy and expand uncontrollably. And once a power does that a few times, they have wrecked any semblance of maintaining a healthy CC. And again you are incentivizing expansion blindly- how many times has LYR had random players want to expand to a stupid place to get 15% off? These guys don't know or care the damage it would do, they just see the bonus.
There are so many loopholes in PP right now that would lead to people simply farming- it would hark back to the days of people fortifying the closest system to get the module. In short, it would encourage bad habits and not constructive co-operative play.
Taking systems from other powers is rare these days. To date I think the only modules this idea would grant would be the mining lance and Grom bomb, with an Enforcer cannon for Hudson.
I don't- I subscribe to the ideal that what Powerplay is now is perfect for Open Only- but, instead of chopping out Solo and PG you give those modes a role to play that helps Open players succeed in a proper team game. You do that with things that work, like new BGS missions, CGs (where mindless trucking is fine- incidentally where your ideas of rewards would go to improve the powers bonuses).
People don't play CQC for rewards, they play it because its different. A partially Open PP with Solo and PG roles would be different, and set it apart from CGs and the BGS.
People that just wanted the modules never had an interest in it to wain in the first place. It was just a pledge , wait 4 weeks, get the required merits, get a stock of the module, rinse and repeat for all of them.
Perhaps it had been more PvP oriented in the first place it would have been a success, since all the bucket fillers get their kicks from the BGS anyway?
Oh wonderful, yet another player who is insisting everyone else plays the way he wants does.
OP, here is the gist - your proposal won't work, you will never get your 'dream' of Open only anything, hell PvP isn't even Open only as it can be done in a PG. But mostly, for all your carefully constructed arguments, your thoughtfulness to exclude the majority of players in the game and force them to play your way or leave, you forgot one tiny, but oh so major point. And that point is - crossplay. You will never see someone on a different platform so will that become the new Meta in the forum wars, how some dastardly group were hiding in X-Box and undermining your little faction whilst you were on the PS4? What about timezones, not everyone plays at the same time or will that become mandatory as well?
Good luck with your proposal, I think you are going to need it. But be assured, whilst this suggestion will die a quick death, there will be another identical one popping up next week no doubt.
OP, here is the gist - your proposal won't work, you will never get your 'dream' of Open only anything, hell PvP isn't even Open only as it can be done in a PG. But mostly, for all your carefully constructed arguments, your thoughtfulness to exclude the majority of players in the game and force them to play your way or leave, you forgot one tiny, but oh so major point. And that point is - crossplay. You will never see someone on a different platform so will that become the new Meta in the forum wars, how some dastardly group were hiding in X-Box and undermining your little faction whilst you were on the PS4? What about timezones, not everyone plays at the same time or will that become mandatory as well?
Good luck with your proposal, I think you are going to need it. But be assured, whilst this suggestion will die a quick death, there will be another identical one popping up next week no doubt.
Keep in mind, these things I suggested would only exist while the player maintains their pledge and, in some cases, rank. So for the case of the Engineer, it would be a convenient Engineer location with a smattering of recipes generally related to the Power's theme. Abandon the Power or remain inactive for long enough and you can no longer access that engineer.
It wouldn't be a "get to this to unlock", it would be "at this you have access", and that access can go away. Imagine if there were Engineers on the fringes between territories, giving service to whoever controls the system - those would be hotly contested. Imagine being able to skip some Engineering unlocks because your Power offers an alternate path for loyalty.