General Overhauling Engineering: A Family's Request for a Streamlined Upgrade System

[angusmadmac1]

If you think the engineering is bad now you may want to look at it's first iteration !!! We had less storage. The drops were fewer and don't ask about the HGE ....
This is the new and improved engineering . And whilst I am a veteran player who has unlocked them all I still hate Marco with a passion ..
I understand your frustration as I still have modules from the first engineering as I couldn't be bothered to "upgrade" them .

 

[alexzk]

Two Proposed Solutions:
-Remove engineers and implement a clear progression and upgrade system for each ship.

No. It is good as is.
2nd - do you understand you don't have to ? You can play without engineers at all exact the same game as 1st 2-3 years of it. This game does not have "outdated" stuff, everything can be used / done today as 11 years ago.

 

[Jack Winter]

Well I have to agree with much of the above, but don't let our opinions drive you away..

IMO, the best way to play the game is to enjoy the noobness when everything is fresh and new..

For the engineering you can either unlock guardian modules that will give you about G3 engineering. Otherwise gather money and start upgrading your ships without the engineering. In the mean time build up a stock of mats, scan ships/wakes/etc to collect encoded, fit a collector limpet controller and hover up manufactured after combat or at signal sources. Do some mining or rock shooting with the SRV, or yes visit the crystal shards even though it's a long way. I think there are some brain tress closer to the bubble that can give you a lot of the mats needed in the beginning. Probably don't push the engineering much past G3 until you have more mats and the higher grades. G3 is much better than stock and needs more common materials. If you really want some engineering and are still missing needed mats, then there are mat traders that can help even though the exchange rate is abysmal, so I'd only recommend that in case you really need something or your mat bins have gotten full.

Keep asking questions here and you'll get answers, probably several different ones but possibly better than the min maxing grind guides that are so normal on the net.

 

[alexzk]

about G3 engineering

G4.

 

[Fnord Velkor]

....

 

[Brrokk]

We had no idea that any of what you listed was a possibility. I wish that the game implemented a simple page of this information in the tutorial. It would have given us a sense of direction. Now I want to go find out what a crystal shard is. I have never even heard of them! Thanks.

I think this is often the real problem. People think things are inaccessible, not because they take too long, but because key information isn't available. The game doesn't have proper documentation; someone just noted on another thread that there's no way in-game to find a named planetary base. So then YouTube videos fill the gap, but too many of them encourage grindy, boring play.

As far as engineering goes, gather materials when you see them; don't waste any, and note that diminishing returns mean that there's rarely any need to go to G5; G4 is almost equal and G3 is close.

 

[Nephthys Vasudan]

Engineering is hard?
Hard how?

It's called Google - It's called reading up on the game and how it works.

Is it perfect? No.

But its far from hard.

 

[EdzUp]

No.
If anything more than "D trusters, A thrusters, S tier thrusters" is beyond your perception just ignore engineering.
Seriously, removing "X" because "it is confusing for me newb" usually cripple gameplay, make it less enjoyable and more shallow. I seen that in multiple games.

Gathering materials really isn't rockect science or quantym physic.
Manufactured: destroyed ships, signal sources in systems, missions (even non combat), DOZENS different abandoned settlements and persistent crashed ships
Data: scanning ships, wakes, signal sources, missions, scanning datalinks on some surface facilities, satelites around orbital installations, hackable data points
Raws: orbital mining or gathering materials on planets.
Also unlocks in crushing majority arent any challenge, but they can introduce you to different gameloops (wanna better distributor? Smuggle something illegal like narcotics to 5 diferent black markets and bribe engineer with 100k credits).

Actually, majority of this ways are possible to discover by playing game, so just play game and reject sick completionist mind, you dont need all of this new, and you don't need S tier stuff in 1 week.
PS: Trade, if in any other way than material for material has no sense in this game. Unless you want to pay dozens millions for single material, because with current, non existing economy it could look like this, so instead "grinding" mats you would "grind" billions credits for upgrades.

Before engineering reared its ugly head we didnt have all these options we just had the simple thrusters and to be honest the game was much better for it, I can see why there are so many calls to get rid of engineering to be honest as "once again" its a half implemented mechanic (if you want to see a more broken one look at multicrew) and to see where that is going look at CQC. Yes the change would ruffle some feathers because everyone has got used to their uber gunboats but you have to remember years ago we had 'flight assist' and everyone has the game capabilities as the ships were all the same, then it was a game of skill. Now its more of a who can get luckier with engineering than others to race to their death machine. Very little combat skill required just more luck.

Engineering doesnt 100% need removing just an easier avenue to getting mats and have the engineers suggest the upgrades dependent on the mats you have so you can choose a upgrade or not.

For what its worth the OP is the target audience after all they paid the money for the game like everyone else here, its these 'new players' who will keep this game going and if we cannot keep the momentum going the game will die a death either way. As communities go this can be a brilliant place but unfortunately in some cases it can get toxic when challenged.

 

[EdzUp]

Engineering is hard?
Hard how?

It's called Google - It's called reading up on the game and how it works.

Is it perfect? No.

But its far from hard.

Why isnt that 'information' in the game we are all playing, surely with all the walls of text in game surely someone could have added that one. Google should not be required to play a game if its written properly.

 

[Nephthys Vasudan]

Why isnt that 'information' in the game we are all playing, surely with all the walls of text in game surely someone could have added that one. Google should not be required to play a game if its written properly.

Its a poor excuse for saying engineering is too hard regardless.
People need to grow up and learn how to google/research/read.

By the time you figure it out - its pretty much moot at that rate.

It all comes down to tracking material/resource traders and knowing where to go.
Lets stop making excuses for lack of effort in learning.

 

[Shurimal]

If I had a clear and concise way of obtaining materials

Odyssey Materials Helper is a great app that gives you an overview of what you have, what materials are needed for any modification and gives you hints where and how you can find things. It also allows you to create wishlists, track engineer unlocks and more.

My favourite way to collect mfg and data materials is bounty hunting. Put an operations multi-limpet controller (4 collectors in a class 3 package) on your combat ship, take 16 to 32 limpets and head to a resource extraction site. Blow pirates to kingdom come and let the limpets pick up the pieces (NB! put all dropped cargo and escape pods to ignore list or you'll get into trouble!) while your shield recharges and you look for the next target--scan all ships in the area and you collect a lot of data, too! I will guarantee that you'll run out of storage for phase alloys and shielding sensors after a few 2-hour sessions.

Mining platinum is very profitable and yields, as all mining, common raw materials. It can be a nice chill group activity, back in the diamond rush days there were big mining parties in Borann every weekend

You don't need all the materials, most are used in one or two mods, and few are used in many mods. Core dynamics composites (high pop fed systems in state "none"), modified embedded firmware, exquisite focus crystals (both mission rewards) are the rare ones you probably need most.

 

[aRJay]

Wow, your reply makes much sense, putting everything into perspective. I was curious why everyone is combative about this topic. Still, now I get that it’s personal to many veterans who put quite a lot of time and effort into a system that new players think shouldn’t have been implemented as such. This resistance stems from a sunk cost fallacy, but what do I know? O7

I agree with the above. That makes a lot of sense. We didn't mean to offend anybody. This is obviously a non-negotiable and sensitive topic for a lot of people. We'll see ourselves out.

Keep in mind that quite a lot of those veterans also think the system shouldn’t have been implemented in the way it was but have struggled on with it or come to terms with it over the years. Apart from some who quit the game over it back in 2016 but are still talking about it on the forums.

There is a section of the forums called Newcomers: Questions, Guides etc in the guides section there is a whole thread about the Spires and their location, your Vultures would not be the best ships for the trip.

 

[varonica]

You’re a veteran; most of this is obvious to you, and I hear you, but could you put yourself in my shoes and remember what it felt like to be new?

Yep, learned it all...did that, been there, enjoyed the journey.

 

[EdzUp]

Its a poor excuse for saying engineering is too hard regardless.
People need to grow up and learn how to google/research/read.

By the time you figure it out - its pretty much moot at that rate.

It all comes down to tracking material/resource traders and knowing where to go.
Lets stop making excuses for lack of effort in learning.

Odyssey Materials Helper is a great app that gives you an overview of what you have, what materials are needed for any modification and gives you hints where and how you can find things. It also allows you to create wishlists, track engineer unlocks and more.

My favourite way to collect mfg and data materials is bounty hunting. Put an operations multi-limpet controller (4 collectors in a class 3 package) on your combat ship, take 16 to 32 limpets and head to a resource extraction site. Blow pirates to kingdom come and let the limpets pick up the pieces (NB! put all dropped cargo and escape pods to ignore list or you'll get into trouble!) while your shield recharges and you look for the next target--scan all ships in the area and you collect a lot of data, too! I will guarantee that you'll run out of storage for phase alloys and shielding sensors after a few 2-hour sessions.

Mining platinum is very profitable and yields, as all mining, common raw materials. It can be a nice chill group activity, back in the diamond rush days there were big mining parties in Borann every weekend

You don't need all the materials, most are used in one or two mods, and few are used in many mods. Core dynamics composites (high pop fed systems in state "none"), modified embedded firmware, exquisite focus crystals (both mission rewards) are the rare ones you probably need most.

Why isn't this IN the game surely the more "accessable" you can make the game the more people will enjoy it, if it's always forcing you to look outside the game it's gonna be as enjoyable as an accounting simulator or at worse Excel

Keep in mind that quite a lot of those veterans also think the system shouldn’t have been implemented in the way it was but have struggled on with it or come to terms with it over the years. Apart from some who quite the game over it back in 2016 but are still talking about it on the forums.

There is a section of the forums called Newcomers: Questions, Guides etc in the guides section there is a whole thread about the Spires and their location, your Vultures would not be the best ships for the trip.

Yep, learned it all...did that, been there, enjoyed the journey.

Yes we did have quite the issue with engineers replacing people with SCB boats but the galaxy was a simpler life back then

 

[varonica]

Why isn't this IN the game surely the more "accessable" you can make the game the more people will enjoy it, if it's always forcing you to look outside the game it's gonna be as enjoyable as an accounting simulator or at worse Excel

The more tools that are outside the game that get put into the game the support FDEV have to supply to keep them up to date. At the moment all the work is done free by volunteers who love playing the game and helping other people, if you start bringing these external tools into the game they then become FDEVs's responsibility, and the complaints when these tools are not up to date then become complaints to and about FDEV. Many games have a similar model, loot at for instance LOTRO where you can look outside the game to find treasure chest locations, guides to how to fight the bosses, maps of dungeons and etc. These games aren't less enjoyable because you have to go outside the game to find stuff.

The fact is FDEV don't want to start spending time and money to support all the external tools, and why would they when that's all done for free by players who love the game?

 

[cmdr bartford]

Final thoughts: ED is a brilliant sandbox with excellent flight mechanics, but you lost revenue from a family willing to spend money on your game because engineering killed it. Please don’t give up on this gem of a game. All the systems are already in place; they only need a bit of refining. We hope to return to the game once engineering has been completely overhauled.

As a somewhat new player as well I'll agree that the new player experience can be extremely daunting, learning how to do things organically can take a while and, unfortunately, farming materials in an "efficient" manner isn't the nicest gameplay loop (who wants to quit to desktop 10 times when you just want to play?).

You don't need to do any engineering early on (other than your FSDs, those ones are hard to live without.) and you'll rack up quite a bunch of materials by just playing organically, a lot of interactions in this game will net you some of the materials you need, and if not, you can trade them for the ones you need in stations with "Material Traders".

In some ways I understand the frustration, I think we all do because we've all been there but I'd say it's mostly from wanting to min-max the game when Elite really isn't a game that is played like that; It wants you to take your time, slowly but surely approaching that goal you set for yourself, and I've come to appreciate it in some ways (specifically because I feel there's not too much end game to chase for other than the thargoid war).

 

[Rubbernuke]

Its far too late to radically change engineering (already on its second iteration), but if it were me I'd have gone for all engineering as experimental like perks and kept it low key. That way tech broker items (pre-engineered) would then have a reason to exist, and that materials would be largely irrelevant (for human tech at least which you could buy).

 

[EdzUp]

Its far too late to radically change engineering (already on its second iteration), but if it were me I'd have gone for all engineering as experimental like perks and kept it low key. That way tech broker items (pre-engineered) would then have a reason to exist, and that materials would be largely irrelevant (for human tech at least which you could buy).

This is where I would go, and asking an engineer would give you a list of possible upgrades for the mats you have making it easier. Perks should wear out over time for example I would also bring back the "yearly" service of components in the ship (experimental upgrades wear out quicker) this would also give us a credit sink for that too

 

[Hellrider]

The game doesn't have proper documentation

I provided screenshots, which are evidence, that some informations are avaliable.Not my fault, that people rejectreading instruction, which actually, is directly in game.
Pls, stop pretending, that game hasnt good amount of informations, only because you have few possibilities listed, instead full documentation with list of all materials with detailed list of possible sources xD
Seriously, what could be good enough? Full drop table of each ship, signal and data link type? Or maybe builded tutorials about relog farming with recommended location?
"something something, don't give all info on silver plate, let people discover stuff on their own, no hand holding"

 

[idahosurge]

Thank you

Inara has a lot on information on where to find materials and data along with information on Engineers, what materials/data is required to upgrade, etc.
Inara.cz/Elite Link

There is a lot of information available in the Elite forums and on the net once you get used to searching for it. Many hundreds of videos on youtube that pretty much cover any topic you want to search for.

As others have said, gather as you go. You don't have to upgrade anything. However there are certain activities like PvE that upgrades are going to be required if you want to participate in that activity.

Gathering material/data only becomes a grind and necessary it you decide to play in a way that makes it that way.