Do you also pick up data that's not used for upgrades like Duty Rota and Faction News?
General Overhauling Engineering: A Family's Request for a Streamlined Upgrade System
- Thread starter Daniel Dusk
- Start date
I would say that the youtube videos imply that to a large degree, though I wouldn't say on purpose, to be fair, just a matter of the ratio between the amount of speedrun engineer strat videos vs unengineered CZ survival techniques videos.What actually can give us some answers.
Example- which sort of people pretend, that they need ultra good engineering to do any combat
I don't want "ultra good engineering" to handle CZs. I want "no engineering" to handle them satisfyingly. Just as I could handle CZs before engineering.
I didn't say that
I said you can use sidewinder to kill thargs or round Galaxy trip. Unlike "classic" MMO where old things are "outdated" and replaced.
Pretty much all NPCs of master rank or higher have some Engineering and pretty much everything on an Elite rank NPC is going to be heavily Engineered. Weapon special effects aren't applied outside of certain special NPCs though.
I don't think CZ NPCs have an increased prevalence of Engineering, but they do tend to have more combat oriented internals.
I'm doubtful of this, though 'decent level' is pretty subjective.
I didn't say that
Even in this sense, the game has changed dramatically. A galactic circumnavigation in a Sidewinder used to be a major feat back when the route plotter was only good for 1k ly plots (if you were lucky and it didn't just break), when getting more than 20ly jumps out of one was impractical, and before there was any way to resupply outside the bubble. Now one must considerably self-handicap--in ways that aren't even going to be obvious to players that didn't play under the old systems--to achieve a similar experience, because that old experience is outdated and has been replaced.
I meant it in the context of unlocking all engineers involved, leveling rep with them and gathering the required materials - not just simply engineering a ship while your bins are already full of materials and you are BFF with all of them engineers.
I thought Morbad was referring to flying skills as being subjective not the engineering level.
Yes.
The community at large has been echoing the same complaints about Engineering since it first arrived, in its much-disliked form of MMO-style grind and exponential power increase in stark contrast to the "tweaks and customized upgrades" advertised back in the kickstarter.
Various initiatives to do something about it, have all gone nowhere. Like this thread that was opened by Fdev, and then shut down 2 years later, with no action taken to date. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...g-ship-engineering-material-gathering.592807/
Your suggestions aren't in the wrong place, they're reasonable and sound, the forumites that remain around here are just...burnt out on hoping for any constructive results, I guess.
oh, and a couple helpful links for you and your family should you decide to give it a go anyway:
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/merpky/foxs_comprehensive_guide_to_engineer_unlocking/
Engineering Materials Guide
Guide on gathering and collecting materials for engineering your ship
wiki.antixenoinitiative.com
This is patently untrue. The difference between engineered and not-engineered is on an exponential order of difference. Most people do not play games to purposefully hamstring and punish themselves by ignoring the power spikes that have been built into it.
Sensor engineering only affects normal space, not supercruise. Wide angle is generally not advisable to use, long range has better utility.
Collecting raw materials only by SRV hoovering is abysmally, awfully slow, tedious, and will not net you the g5 mats you need to really get anything done.
HGEs at least is valid advice, but doing the relog farm to milk any real worth out of them is not so simple. Mission rewards only give a few specific types of mats, as well.
There's no reason to stop at level 3 other than not having the mats. Getting the materials you need will give you all the freedom to do as you please with engineering.
That's not an issue. Forumites gatekeeping feedback and perspective on the game, however (and giving lots of bad/misinformed information to boot), very much is the issue here.
It's widely known and been debated to death endlessly what the flaws and issues of Engineering are. It should be no surprise when newer players run into the same extant frustrations we've faced since day 1 of its introduction.
Ships in CZs are difficult because of highly inflated hull hitpoints, not shielding (and the presence of special ops wings which are fully engineered ships). This test of yours completely missed the mark, there.Some people seriously shoot in legs with shotgun with playing in this game like another korean mmo, where they "need" 100% of power, because with 99,99% they are too weak.
What's even more weird is having such mindset in pve.
In this pve, which is doable without any engineering.
Also, fur future posts- some time ago I did little "test" of npc shields in CZs, for removing "but outside x range you havent 100% of damage" I applied g1 long range for lasers (also- my ship had 20,6 thermal dps, and required time is "time under fire", of course shooting for 100 seconds at 1 target without any break is...little difficult, that's why I usually used lasers for 5 seconds, checked shields of my target, yes, attacked only by me, if in 5s you took 10%, then doing some math to estimate time required for 100% isn't quantum engineering), enjoy
View attachment 378759
Estimated shield power, and required engineering is based on assumption, that ships have just heavy duty shields, instead some weird mix of resists, so if they would use HD...actually more than 50% of my targets had shields, which are possible to reach without any engineering.
I did that, because a lot of people love claim, that ships in CZs are after "heavy engineering", and "you cannot seriously fight without engineering".
Of course, I could make similar tests for med/high CZs, or even for spec ops/captains, but if people ignore similar tests making additional is pointless (spoiler: they usually ignore it).
LR1 lasers incidentally isn't that great, either. Efficient is more damage out to about 1100m, overcharged out to about 1600m. For LR to be superior your combat style has to stay outside those thresholds the majority of the time - which means you're definitely not hitting shots with any other weapons that aren't hitscan, which would include the all-important corrosive applicators (multicannon or a frag cannon) so you can chew through the massive amounts of hull you find in those CZs.
There's also powerplant module targeting that can cut down the time to kill in CZs significantly, which you can do with hitscan railguns or various other weapons, but it still is aided significantly by being able to consistently deal damage with corrosive - and making optimal use of all hardpoints in general, which for most ships is going to mean you can't go full LR hitscan - the ships just don't have the distro juice & heat control for it, even fully engineered.
I strongly disagree. Advising newer players to go straight to 'challenge mode' for combat is not good. CZs are a big step up from RES or even CNBs for various reasons, like the hitpoint inflation mentioned above but also the very different group vs group dynamic that highly emphasizes positioning and focused fire. Jumping into that with a less-than-ideally-fitted ship is asking for failure. Sure, if you really cautiously position and focus fire very well, you can eke out success, but that's not a simple task and is only made harder by doing it in an under-fitted ship.As long your piloting skills (which do not depend on engineering) are decent, you dont need any engineering to do and win Low CZ.
And learning to fly up to a decent level is faster than fully engineering a ship and much much entertaining than following YT grinding guides
All you need is a ship prepped for combat (all internals hrp, mrp) and then just some common sense as in not engage ships that are not already engaged and damaged by your team
The game itself is also to blame for not highlighting just how different the risks and challenges are in CZs, either. They're just included up front with any other mission on the board with nothing to help make a new player any wiser.
"The community at large" hasn't done anything like that. The linked thread demonstrates that some people are happy with engineering and some aren't. Among the people who aren't, there's no consensus of what to do about it.
Thats what many of us do in game live with what we have and hope it gets "better"(which is naturally just a matter of that person's opinion)
I wouldn't mind seeing some posts from people who are happy with engineering, particularly the materials gathering bit and are able to highlight it's presumed strengths in an interesting way and in isolation from the base combat being good anyway.