i care
Pay2Win made it to Elite
- Thread starter Einar Donarsson
- Start date
I wouldn't have had it any other way than start with a Sidewinder and 100 credits, loved every minute. Everyone should do it!
As I think about this change though I can't see it as much different to a promotion bringing in new players outside my timezone. Who put in the hours while I sleep, earned ships involved in the Arx effect while I slept, having their proportional effect on the BGS while I sleep. Which is nil change if they were playing already and if it brings more players in then that just supports the game? For me it's still preferable to a subscription and maybe this day was always coming when that was ruled out?
There's still a heck of a lot of space out there, even if core star systems just got more valuable in the BGS (no worries, player factions are elite when it comes to defending their turf against all comers, right?). I just think we're seeing the bottom line in a game we hope to see grow and I can't feel too upset about commercial realities, especially because Cmdr Jameson's letter, Sidewinder and 100 credits is still playable from a one time license purchase.
Given how FD still seem to think in terms of difficulty (eg. surprise Orthorus invasion waves, Glaives) I can't see these being over engineered buys, especially given engineering sounds like it's getting an overhaul too. That's probably a nerf too but it still won't help traders much when I'm on their six. Or if I'm hauling, stop me if you can! My two cents.
Then there is DCS where the add-on planes cost 50€ a pop for early Cold War era jets and 70 to 80€ a pop for more modern ones. And in multiplayer a MiG-15 would stand no chance against an F-16
Then again, developing a very accurate simulation of a real-world modern jet fighter is no small task and the base sim with one aircraft and two maps is free.Combat flight sims are the very definition of P2W and I always laugh when people think CIG invented expensive add-on vehicles. Besides, resets aside, you can get access to existing SC ships with gameplay (selling dreams.jpg is a whole different matter), but you absolutely have to dole out real money for each and every fighter jet you want to fly in DCS. I'm still fine with DCS model of business, of course, since it's not realistic to have all these ultra-realistic high fidelity planes available in a 60 or 70€ base game and most of them are created by 3rd party developers, anyway.
Yes, OK, if the game is won by "getting stuff first", then an ARX unlock is pay-to-win. You're assuming we all play a particular way though, something like Fortnite-in-space. In reality there's no way I'd agree to a duel because that's just not the stuff I do when playing Elite. In fact it's unlikely we'll ever meet and in my gameplay "win" doesn't mean exploding anything. I don't think I depend on a concept of "win" at all, so it's impossible for me to "pay to win".
Well, at the risk of going off topic, CIG did invent hugely expensive add-ons that spontaneously explode in an unstable alpha running ten years late....
Being able to get into a ship a bit early, while helping to fund the game, seems like small beer to me.
I have given you one possible example.
I will give you another without an explosion involved.
we play bgs, without exploding, conditions the same, you in starting sidewinder me, in ARX python with more cargo and range.
I play who will fly farther and who will discover the farthest star in which period of time, say for 3 months. you in starter sidewinder, me in ARX python
do you understand now or is it still too difficult?
Python Mk II & Updates To The Gamestore - Elite Dangerous
Greetings Commanders, 3310 is a busy year for Elite Dangerous, with three Titans down already, Powerplay 2.0 in the works, four new ship variants on t...www.elitedangerous.com
Seems we hit rock bottom.
3 Month early access and pre-built ships for real life Moneys.
Store also seems to become more expensive since they used the word "Adjustment"
I never ever thought practices like this would make it to Elite.
There will of course be the usual, shall we say, persons who support FD....just as they always do, and for the same reasons, but they're being ripped on social media and with good reason.
Frontier have never done this game justice - apart from a brief fluorescence with the Guardians - and now there's nothing left but greed.
Anybody who has a Cobra MKIV is already participating in pay to win more than anyone paying for the early accesss is. At least we will all eventually have access to the Python MkII...
![[VR] DDM_Reaper20](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/44/44021.jpg?1588332101){kind=avatar}
IF the new ship(s?) upend it like that. Even then, it would have to be determined by how much.
I do get your point of view. It's just that I used to play World of Tanks on the side (until I grew so SICK of the community -- play badly, and you'll get threats & abuse -- my brother got told he should get cancer, I was told I should commit suicide, etc.), and THIS community is composed of angels, and I'm not being sarcastic. The people here are helpful and funny.
I cannot imagine that many here would spitefully abuse a particularly powerful ship... and, again, for the record, I DOUBT FDEV would saddle us with the ship version of the Übermensch.
Anyway, I doubt that my dabblings will have any big kind of impact, casual player that I am, so I am going to wait for its release, study the specs, and buy it if I like it. If not, I shall sit on my wallet.
Not necessarily. World of Tanks, for example, offers plenty of "premium tanks" for real money (packages go up to a 100 bucks sometimes, IIRC -- including paintjob, 3D visuals and "resources"), BUT, with a few notable exceptions, these premiums are not QUITE as good as the ones on the same level you have to access by playing. SOMETHING is always worse -- gun handling, armour, mobility... something. As I said, there are some exceptions, but those split the community like a light sabre...
IF it was done that way, it might alleviate some concerns.
Me, I do not wish to avoid any grind. I have two accounts, on both I got to the corvette, in my older one, I even had a cutter. I love playing this game, and I have no intention of fouling up anybody else's gameplay. Just so nobody thinks I'm one of THOSE guys.
Some MS FSX airliners were 200+€ and not all of them are known for quality, either
Then again, Forever Alpha is something CIG has the honor of "first"...
Anyway, as for Elite, I think ships for ARX is not a very bright idea. Instead, as I said in the official news thread, quarterly story-based mini-DLCs for 10 to 15€ a pop that send you on a 10 to 15 hour mission chain and reward unique cosmetics, modules and ship variants would've been much better way. Not to mention a regular flood of cosmetics, including stuffz to spice up fleet carriers
Paying for Arx to get early access to the Python Mk II and general access to ‘pre-built’ ships merely unlocks those items in the shipyards, surely? Presumably you still need in-game credits to acquire them.
Which means before you can get access you need to earn enough credits (WIN) so that you can gain the benefit of the Arx you then need to fork out real money for (PAY).
So isn’t that “Win-to-Pay”?
Which means before you can get access you need to earn enough credits (WIN) so that you can gain the benefit of the Arx you then need to fork out real money for (PAY).
So isn’t that “Win-to-Pay”?
What's the benefit of paying for a pre built ship if you still have to buy it with credits, why not just buy it first hand in game? (Assuming it's not engineered)Paying for Arx to get early access to the Python Mk II and general access to ‘pre-built’ ships merely unlocks those items in the shipyards, surely? Presumably you still need in-game credits to acquire them.
Which means before you can get access you need to earn enough credits (WIN) so that you can gain the benefit of the Arx you then need to fork out real money for (PAY).
So isn’t that “Win-to-Pay”?
Who wants to play forever!
OK, but why do we "play BGS"? If I'm in a starter Sidewinder I'm not likely to care about BGS at all.
By your reasoning it seems to me that the people who just bought the game before me "paid to win". Why would I care about what everyone is doing in games I haven't bought yet?
I honestly don't know how I feel about this.
It seems to me that they're struggling financially to support the game. So they're looking at new ways to fix this.
Of course, they could have kept on releasing new ships or assets over the past few years and therefore would have had a regular stream of cash coming from cosmetics. They couldn't do this, because Odyssey needed fixing and they were still working on the tedious Thargoid storyline.
I used to buy cosmetics every month, to around the tune of £20 across 4 Commanders (2x PC, 1x each of the consoles). It was my way of supporting the game, which is the only game I've played in 6 of the last 10 years (I've been playing since day 1 but took breaks whenever I got bored or annoyed. Usually the latter). No doubt they also made money from Odyssey assets, but no where near as much they would have with ship stuff. Because the player base seems to have slipped away. I've certainly found very few reasons to play Odyssey.
I won't be physically buying any ships, so this doesn't affect me. But I can't say I'll hold anything against any that wishes to either. It's their choice.
I just think this move is concerning. And I think it's more down to Frontier's mismanagement of the game over the past 4 or 5 years. One that was once quite profitable and now seems not to be.
P.S. If they allow newbies to buy a package whereby they get a Python Mk2, they'll probably still only allow them to use the Sidewinder in the newbie zones. So I don't think we'll see 'Seal Clubbing'. Not that I've ever seen Seal in a night club anyway.
It seems to me that they're struggling financially to support the game. So they're looking at new ways to fix this.
Of course, they could have kept on releasing new ships or assets over the past few years and therefore would have had a regular stream of cash coming from cosmetics. They couldn't do this, because Odyssey needed fixing and they were still working on the tedious Thargoid storyline.
I used to buy cosmetics every month, to around the tune of £20 across 4 Commanders (2x PC, 1x each of the consoles). It was my way of supporting the game, which is the only game I've played in 6 of the last 10 years (I've been playing since day 1 but took breaks whenever I got bored or annoyed. Usually the latter). No doubt they also made money from Odyssey assets, but no where near as much they would have with ship stuff. Because the player base seems to have slipped away. I've certainly found very few reasons to play Odyssey.
I won't be physically buying any ships, so this doesn't affect me. But I can't say I'll hold anything against any that wishes to either. It's their choice.
I just think this move is concerning. And I think it's more down to Frontier's mismanagement of the game over the past 4 or 5 years. One that was once quite profitable and now seems not to be.
P.S. If they allow newbies to buy a package whereby they get a Python Mk2, they'll probably still only allow them to use the Sidewinder in the newbie zones. So I don't think we'll see 'Seal Clubbing'. Not that I've ever seen Seal in a night club anyway.
I don't support FD, but I do support this game, does this make me a bad person?
The great thing about greed is that it is recognised and spurned - unless the game is a perpetual alpha, where more millions are thrown at it...
Honestly, why worry? FD will either be very successful (in whatever metric they use to measure success) in this new venture, or they will fail miserably. I won't make any difference to the game - unless finances are so bad that its very survival depends on successful selling - at the end of the day. The P2 will be available in August, regardless.
The “benefit” (and here I’m using this word quite wrongly) is that you don’t need to set out on a starport-hopping journey for modules and (even better!) you don’t have to think for yourself and determine which build might be optimal. Just front up some lovely Arx and the devs have played that part of the game loop for you!
I’m just an old premium-beta backer from 2014 and I’m not even bitter. It’s all just strangely (and slightly darkly) amusing at this point.
People are interpreting the ship access and prebuilds as credits purchases even after the ARX exchange? What? If you have to pay credits to purchase things you bought for ARX, then I honestly cannot see the point of spending ARX. Why would you spend your real money for the "privilege" of going through the exact same process as if you had not paid real money?
If this system is going to be "Pay ARX to have this stuff show up as a credits purchase at a module broker," then this will be the biggest flop, and a huge waste of the time that FDev spent implementing it.
If this system is going to be "Pay ARX to have this stuff show up as a credits purchase at a module broker," then this will be the biggest flop, and a huge waste of the time that FDev spent implementing it.
The news post is indeed ambiguous, but all the possibilities are bad, the stuff you buy is either overpowered or useless which makes the monetization either scummy or dumb. Yeah there's a sweet spot but that requires the game to be tightly balanced to work and we know Elite isn't. A few games can maybe pull it off, but most err on the side that makes them more money.