And still be limited to only using it on the ship it originated from, after all.
Pay2Win made it to Elite
- Thread starter Einar Donarsson
- Start date
Can't stop there. Should be allowed to use it on any purchased ship, Shirley?
I'd wait a bit for the dust to settle. Once the expectable fallout from the introduction of P2W features has settled in, people will be apathetic enough again to remove such nonsense.
Thank you, yes. Paul is community liaison, I don't know if this function implies they are at all times informed about development details esp. pertaining to a possibity of changes to a current known state. I know other companies where they are not, and have to reach out for answers if an issue arises. With all the noise about the new stuff not abating so far, I stilll have doubts if this is the final say. This influences my purchase decision.
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Only if it was allowed to create unlimited instances of them. This was not my understanding.
It's suggestion, otherwise why they didn't do ? On big old code base it works that way - prefer to do small changes easy to read by reviewers.
Yes, most likely counter field does not exists because it was not needed as other things aren't limited. This means you need add counter to database, to in-memory representation, add code which will check counter & class of module "RM or credits". Btw, this is new field again - source of the modudle. RM/Credits, and apply new rules to the RM only.
Instead they went easier way for them without adding 2 extra fields to the database: they prohibited to remove module. If you remove module - it gets destroyed. So they don't have to store extra information.
Hmm, the way I see it, it's not really a big issue that you can't store pre-built PMk2 modules. All the core modules are BIS so there's no need to change them. Utility slots are 5 A-rated boosters, which are sort of BIS unless you want to use E-rated ones to save on power. Except for the C6 bi-weave shield, other optional modules are cheap stuff that I would swap out without a second thought.
Now the hardpoints, I would probably keep the MCs, they'll get the job done in PvE combat. Pulse lasers are cheap enough that I also won't care about them and switch it for beams or cytos.
Now the hardpoints, I would probably keep the MCs, they'll get the job done in PvE combat. Pulse lasers are cheap enough that I also won't care about them and switch it for beams or cytos.
You mean the financial reports that indicate a 25% loss margin for FD last year and in which the existence of Elite is essentially a footnote? Yeah, where on earth do people get the idea that Elite isn't earning a profit...
Odd...
@Ian Doncaster was able to extract useful information on revenue from the very same financial reports, perhaps the information is obfuscated to a quick glance read?
You're answering a different question to the one I asked. Frontier as a whole isn't doing well, and Elite looks to being a low priority, yes. That's different to "Elite is generating no income so we can't update it without adding in more microtransactions".
FWIW, I have the impression that they finally decided that elite is no longer a low priority project which they work on when employees have nothing better to do.
The per-franchise information is in the investor presentations rather than the financial reports - not quite the same thing.
Essentially Elite Dangerous currently generates enough long-term income to pay for its direct operational and development costs, with a small amount of "profit" which probably covers its share of overheads too.
"Profitable" is a very flexible term in this context, though; they can clearly if they wish to - as they did during Odyssey's development, for example - spend much higher amounts than they currently are on ED's development. They can also spend a lot less than they currently are doing if the revenue dries up. So Elite Dangerous has essentially been "marginally profitable" in itself since about 2018 and will probably stay that way for several years; how much development it gets over the next several years is much more dependent on how much revenue it brings in than how much "profit" the franchise makes, because Frontier can within certain bounds make that "profit" number be whatever they like.
(As always: whether their new approach is actually going to be a revenue success or end up making things worse we won't find out through public documents for quite a while; whether it's a way to make revenue that any individual is happy with is a separate question entirely to whether it works or not in aggregate)
Thanks for the clarification, Ian.
I think early access to the ships is a great model to pay for, in lieu of subscription etc. This is exciting. I feel like ARX adjustments were heavy handed and should be severely curtailed to a compromise position favoring tradition and more beneficial to the ocmmander, while the ship sales and advance ship sales were a square deal that compliments the tradition where money came from early access investors that I respect very much.
Respectfully,
Noons everywhere
Respectfully,
Noons everywhere
I'll recant my former position and say that I don't believe that the Python MKII, et al. are pay-to-win (you still have to engineer the things after all), but more along the lines of 'pay-to-skip-quite-a-bit', which I do find a bit distasteful, as, to me, working your way through the small ships was/is the best fun I've had with Elite (took me 9 months regular play to get the original Python, and I started in the Cobra III). But, at this point in the game's life, I'll happily pay for early access to ships, even if I don't use them, if it keeps the lights on and adds more ship variety to the game.
I expect by May 2025 the cash investment that most regular active players will have of ingame functional items will significantly dwarf the price if the base game. People will claim that you can't purchase meta items in store so by some definitions its not 'pay2win'....we shall see. Regardless of definitions we all know what this means. Have your credit card handy.
I'll reiterate. If Frontier produced an expansion that allows me to fly through weather in thick atmospheres, or over procedurally generated cities and land on terrestrial planets (hunting dinosaurs optional) then they can charge whatever they want to my credit card.
Failing that, I'll take new ships.
The pre-built ships are not "pay to win" as the OP suggests and Belluler News cast tries to mislead their audience on. There is a steep learning curve for new players just starting Elite Dangerous, and without the fan supported websites those new players would be undoubtingly lost because those fans supported websites connect information to the players e.g. where to find modules, ship hulls, trading routes, etc. These are all quality-of-life improvements for Elite Dangerous players, and Frontier should continue to support these sites. It is also misleading to say "end game" when there is no "end game" except what players individually deicide is their "end game" based or dirven towards what their chosen playstyle or interest are throughout the time playing Elite Dangerous.
The argument that pre-built means the purchasing player did not have to grind for credits or materials is selfish-minded. These pre-built ships offer templated road maps on starting ship builds and those pre-built ship modules are not interchangeable to any other ship. Once their replaced, their gone forever, no refund. They're only saving a few million credits - at most - and about a full day's worth of game time since there are numerous fans supported websites that offer "Road to Riches" avenues to earn credits. IF you want to argue they did not earn the credits - well, so what!?! Or the different sites on how to obtain or unlock specific modules. The person would still have to do the whole engineering unlocks and material farming like the rest of the CMDRs who want to get more out of their ships. Pre-built ships do not short cut this.
There are only three pre-built ships worth the ARX after reviewing the choices: Python mk2, Chieftain, and the DBX (actually the DBX needs v1 5A FSD). All those pre-built ships offer is an introductory ship build(s) for BH or CZ, Anti-Thargoid, and exploration, exobiology, and jumping around the "Bubble" little easier. That's it, nothing more, and everything someone could do without purchasing a pre-built ship. There is no "pay to win" there and offering some shortcuts e.g. the Chieftain's r5 Dirty Drive engineering and their two (2) guardian gauss cannons the anti-guardian zone resistance is trivial. Again, no "pay to win" there too.
I have help over 6+ new players just beginning Elite Dangerous. The initial to-dos jump starting them was a couple team BH/Assassination missions while they chilled in their Sidewinder at the space port to collect the mission credit rewards to get transition into a DBX and 5A FSD (moving modules from Sidewinder over). Then, introduce them to the material farming locations for the engineering materials required to purchase the v1 5A FSD. Then, one quick FC run out to Guardian Structures for them to gather the blueprint and guardian materials to unlock their gFSD Booster, and once everything is complete, their "Quality of Life" starting experience improved. You could accomplish these tasks within 2 or 3 game sessions. The pre-build DBX essentially does the same thing that I have done for other players, and my near identical assistance to those new players it is by far, nowhere near any "pay to win" advantage. There are far more activities and prerequisites they'll need to complete to prepare for those CZ, Hazardous BH, Assassination Missions, Cargo Trucking, Mining, etc. type activities.
As a Veteran player, I see nothing wrong offering introductory ship build as pre-built ships. And I would not call any of the pre-built ships a "pay to win" scenario. Time and grind as an argument is a poor one since the actual time is trivial and their pre-built ship modules are not interchangeable to other ships. For me, opening the option for pre-built ships means their able to wing up sooner than later to do group activities with a starter ship while they progress along unlocking reputation for Federal or Imperial ships, unlocking engineers, earning Badges, and the whole engineering gambit attached to ship building.
Remember, the fan supported sites help make Elite Dangerous playable. The optional pre-built ships have the same purpose that enables Frontier to assist new players without breaking the game, as their pre-built ships are basic builds.
The argument that pre-built means the purchasing player did not have to grind for credits or materials is selfish-minded. These pre-built ships offer templated road maps on starting ship builds and those pre-built ship modules are not interchangeable to any other ship. Once their replaced, their gone forever, no refund. They're only saving a few million credits - at most - and about a full day's worth of game time since there are numerous fans supported websites that offer "Road to Riches" avenues to earn credits. IF you want to argue they did not earn the credits - well, so what!?! Or the different sites on how to obtain or unlock specific modules. The person would still have to do the whole engineering unlocks and material farming like the rest of the CMDRs who want to get more out of their ships. Pre-built ships do not short cut this.
There are only three pre-built ships worth the ARX after reviewing the choices: Python mk2, Chieftain, and the DBX (actually the DBX needs v1 5A FSD). All those pre-built ships offer is an introductory ship build(s) for BH or CZ, Anti-Thargoid, and exploration, exobiology, and jumping around the "Bubble" little easier. That's it, nothing more, and everything someone could do without purchasing a pre-built ship. There is no "pay to win" there and offering some shortcuts e.g. the Chieftain's r5 Dirty Drive engineering and their two (2) guardian gauss cannons the anti-guardian zone resistance is trivial. Again, no "pay to win" there too.
I have help over 6+ new players just beginning Elite Dangerous. The initial to-dos jump starting them was a couple team BH/Assassination missions while they chilled in their Sidewinder at the space port to collect the mission credit rewards to get transition into a DBX and 5A FSD (moving modules from Sidewinder over). Then, introduce them to the material farming locations for the engineering materials required to purchase the v1 5A FSD. Then, one quick FC run out to Guardian Structures for them to gather the blueprint and guardian materials to unlock their gFSD Booster, and once everything is complete, their "Quality of Life" starting experience improved. You could accomplish these tasks within 2 or 3 game sessions. The pre-build DBX essentially does the same thing that I have done for other players, and my near identical assistance to those new players it is by far, nowhere near any "pay to win" advantage. There are far more activities and prerequisites they'll need to complete to prepare for those CZ, Hazardous BH, Assassination Missions, Cargo Trucking, Mining, etc. type activities.
As a Veteran player, I see nothing wrong offering introductory ship build as pre-built ships. And I would not call any of the pre-built ships a "pay to win" scenario. Time and grind as an argument is a poor one since the actual time is trivial and their pre-built ship modules are not interchangeable to other ships. For me, opening the option for pre-built ships means their able to wing up sooner than later to do group activities with a starter ship while they progress along unlocking reputation for Federal or Imperial ships, unlocking engineers, earning Badges, and the whole engineering gambit attached to ship building.
Remember, the fan supported sites help make Elite Dangerous playable. The optional pre-built ships have the same purpose that enables Frontier to assist new players without breaking the game, as their pre-built ships are basic builds.
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