Pay2Win made it to Elite

[Darkfyre99]

I gotta wait and see where this goes... because I have big time invested in this game I have enjoyed. But my spidey sense says its going down a path that I would not have chosen this game back years ago. I would have steered clear from. I already went down the path of F2P or (very inexpensive entry games) just to find it becomes a persistant money grab for ingame items. How deep is ED going to follow this path? I don't know. Wait and see. But I (like some others) will be very disappointed depending on what happens.

Same here. I’ve been playing since the original alpha, but not nearly as much as I would’ve normally in a sim-style MMO, thanks to many of Frontier’s design choices. Those design choices, which I now suspect to be potential monetization hooks, create considerable friction against me playing this game more often, as I normally would in a sim-style game, even with my current busy schedule. As a result, I haven’t spent nearly as much money as I’d originally budgeted for this game on cosmetics. Good for my bottom line, but maybe not Frontier’s.

It doesn’t help that Frontier’s “fix” for the most obvious monetization hook, exponential growth on ship and module prices, removed most of the depth I enjoyed early in the game’s development, obviated the economic sim that made ABA runs far more interesting, and took the verisimilitude of the game’s setting, and shot it behind the shed. These are call critical aspects of any sim-style game, let alone an MMO.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I'm sure most of us have acknowledged that this is a multiplayer game where there is at least the potential for what anyone does to impact other players, either directly or indirectly, at this point.

Still, It's not player decisions that are the real concern. No sense in criticizing a player's choice to use the more advantageous set of rules; we all do, according to our own criteria.

Frontier offering a choice in this regard is something that never should have been done. Frontier is on the hook for every imbalance they introduce, every ambiguity, every rule they fail to enforce. I can overlook imperfections. I won't overlook the monetization of deliberate imbalance.

^^^
This.

Until now, I've been willing to apply Hanlon's razor to all of Elite Dangerous' many, many flaws. All of the design choices that generate friction towards playing this game. All the cracks in the game that steer players towards a grind-heavy play style. All the "what were they thinking" moments I encounter in this game.

Not anymore.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Perhaps if the ones so vociferous over the purchase of assets with game store currency were numerous enough to cause concern to Frontier is they all rejected the game, Frontier might reconsider?

I think it is a good idea for players to voice their opinions on the forums and elsewhere... prior to Frontier going further with the gamestore changes. Depending on how Frontier continue the gamestore they could lose players such as myself. Wait and see.

The much much larger percent of players that don't regularly frequent the forums won't rage quit with big fireworks on the forums. They will just disappear. And potential new gamers that percieve ED as a P2W game simply won't buy it. But many gamers that percieve ED as a quick-and-easy game to get into will be encouraged by P2W elements. I suspect there will be an overall shift from long-term players to short-term players. This might be good for quick cash revenue but bad overall for people who want to play a long-term game.

Once Frontier gets down the P2W path a bit further there will be no chance for them to reconsider. It will be too late, no going back. I don't believe it is possible to successfully switch an active game away from a gamestore P2W model. Not once a bunch of players have bought stuf for real-world cash.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

What do people want out of the game?

 

[Rat Catcher]

Depending on how Frontier continue the gamestore they could lose players such as myself.

And me, and, no doubt a few others who are fairly tolerent to their latest monetisation move.

Wait and see.

Is exactly what I have said a few times here, currently minor things are being offered for game currency (not cash, as is being touted, although a new player would certainly have to buy the currency, if they are not inspired to earn 400/800 Arx each week by just playing.

The much much larger percent of players that don't regularly frequent the forums won't rage quit with big fireworks on the forums.

What was the figure mentioned recently that around 2% of the playerbase might post on the forum regularly?

And potential new gamers that percieve ED as a P2W game simply won't buy it.

Absolutely! No loss...

I suspect there will be an overall shift from long-term players to short-term players.

While long-term players are a good metric to quote, mostly they don't open their wallet enough, which is apparent from some comments elsewhere on this forum that effectively state that "I bought the game, that is all they will get from me", "New Money" is apparently needed, and old players aren't spending often enough.

I make no pretence of caring much how someone else may regard the current strategy launched by FD, nor suggest that the folk who may open their wallets to buy things are lacking in some way, I'm curious how this strategy will work, and will it raise sufficient revenue for FD, and hence this game, to continue into the future.
Yes, if they sell assets that cannot be obtained by play, I'll gladly mutter "So long, and thanks for all the fish" as I wander onto playing the eternal alpha scam, as at least it is an obvious scam.

 

[Rat Catcher]

What do people want out of the game?

A good question...
I wonder how many others will respond?

 

[zimms]

Fun while playing?

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

Fun while playing?

That doesn't seem unreasonable so in respect to the thread topic, why do some people seem to think paying for a ship modded/unmodded before it's release is a pay to win situation (rhetorical yes and directed to any/everyone)? I ask because it seems there are several ways to play this game not contingent on the new Python ship. So it stands to reason that fun is not hampered with given the many options to play this game. I'm having fun and I don't have the ship and I don't feel I have lost in any context or in any way. I suspect the majority of players are in that same boat.
Anyone feel free to share otherwise but I suspect most people's game play is widely unaffected by Frontier selling ships with arx. Pay to win, hardly in my opinion. I feel that's very subjective.

 

[zimms]

Exactly, it's very subjective and I'm sure there are people out there whose fun is now diminished. It shouldn't come as a surprise, just take a look at any other game with P2W-esque features.

I personally don't care all that much about the ships for Arx, to me the bigger issues was the introduction of an artificial currency like Arx in the first place. Nothing good every comes of it for the customer side. And Frontier have now demonstrated very clearly when they Thanos-ed everyone's Arx balance just like that.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

Nothing good every comes of it for the customer side. And Frontier have now demonstrated very clearly when they Thanos-ed everyone's Arx balance just like that.

Subjective as well. I don't feel I lost anything by using 'artificial' currency to buy some cosmetics for my ship or space suit. Now debating the recent changes to arx for money is a different subject entirely. I still fail to see P2W. Having played many games that have that similar style (GTAV, FO76, ESO) of P2W in their own rights. I'll pick on GTA here, what a mess that is yet still very popular despite the servers full of hackers, griefers and degenerate game play. FD is nothing like those companies (rock star, bethesda)

 

[Rat Catcher]

FD is nothing like those companies (rock star, bethesda)

The comments are that they might be, one day...
Not that they are today...
...that "slippery slope" beckons, apprently.

But, as would be expected, 2 schools of thought, and neither will ever agree!

 

[zimms]

Subjective as well. I don't feel I lost anything by using 'artificial' currency to buy some cosmetics for my ship or space suit. Now debating the recent changes to arx for money is a different subject entirely. I still fail to see P2W. Having played many games that have that similar style (GTAV, FO76, ESO) of P2W in their own rights. I'll pick on GTA here, what a mess that is yet still very popular despite the servers full of hackers, griefers and degenerate game play. FD is nothing like those companies (rock star, bethesda)

I think we can objectively say that Frontier devalued everybody's Arx balance, but I guess there's no point discussing it any further.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

The comments are that they might be, one day...
Not that they are today...
...that "slippery slope" beckons, apprently.

But, as would be expected, 2 schools of thought, and neither will ever agree!

The whole point is to voice the concern clearly before FDEV become like that. Once they do, it's way too late. For them, for us, for the game.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

The comments are that they might be, one day...
Not that they are today...
...that "slippery slope" beckons, apprently.

Of course, it's why I floated the question, what's the goal of playing the game for each individual. If it's fun which I suspect most people are playing for (this is hardly competitive like Fortnite, PubG, Apex, etc) then it raises the question, how does buying artificial currency (arx) for a ship affect your fun? It likely doesn't. There's always an exception.

Whether or not FD will turn into those aforementioned games, probably not. Those said games were designed that way from the start. FDev is trying to make some money in a benign way. And it is benign.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

I think we can objectively say that Frontier devalued everybody's Arx balance, but I guess there's no point discussing it any further.

That's fair if they raised the price for less arx but that's neither here nor there. In the context of the thread topic

 

[Rat Catcher]

The whole point is to voice the concern clearly before FDEV become like that.

If it is on their future agenda, the voices of a few players on this forum will make little to no difference.

If nobody 'buys in' to their strategy, maybe they would consider another path, but, apparently, with the number of Python Mk II ships already in-game, it may not have been a dismal failure.

Once they do, it's way too late. For them, for us, for the game.

So, do you consider it would have been better for FD to do nothing, rather than attempt to raise revenue by selling more Arx?
At least that may have led to the end of the game for everyone, as has been chanted since release...

A few here may be saying no to the strategy, but (I love this bit) the 'silent majority' - the other 92% of players who don't come here - may be yelling "YES", who knows?

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

At least that may have led to the end of the game for everyone

Finally right? All the other bazillion times the 'game is dead', the prophecy came true at last. See, they told you so

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

So, do you consider it would have been better for FD to do nothing, rather than attempt to raise revenue by selling more Arx?
At least that may have led to the end of the game for everyone, as has been chanted since release...

I think I've already answered that somewhere earlier in this thread, but I will again.

FDEV haven't even nearly exhausted all the possible cosmetics options that would be instant buys for many players.

1. There have been no new carrier designs since the initial three.
2. Several ships still don't have any ship kits at all.
3. Many ships don't have all the different ship kit sets that have been created.
4. The 2015 Chrome paintjobs look fantastic in Odyssey, this has gotten some traction with the latest Buur Pit and Galnet News videos.
5. Ok, this is no cosmetic, but: Unlock the Cobra IV for ARX.
6. Raise the price for ARX, not the ARX prices of the shop items.
7. Get ship interiors and ARX cosmetics for that going.

 

[vanFace]

FD is nothing like those companies (rock star, bethesda)

Indeed, and I enjoy their games, too. However, I sometimes wish FD gets a bit more into their cleverness-range, TBH.

 

[Darkfyre99]

What do people want out of the game?

I want four things from any game I play:

• A game with depth - This game used to have much more depth than it currently has. Most of that depth has been filled in by Frontier to “fix” a flaw I used to attribute to inexperience, but now suspect was there as a future monetization hook. Which is a pity, because the economic sim in particular had the potential to scratch the X4 itch many players have.
• A game with verisimilitude - This game used to have very tight verisimilitude: the illusion that this game was simulating life in the 34th century Elite universe. The afore mentioned “fix” has pretty much thrown most of that out of the window, requiring increasingly convoluted headcanon to make sense out of the nonsensical.
• A game with engaging mechanics - This game has a lot of frankly disengaging mechanics IMO. I used to attribute that to inexperience as well, but they are also potential monetization hooks.
• A game that is fair - No game can be truly fair, given out of game disparities between players. Game developers don’t have control over that, aside from designing a game to minimize those disparities. Pay2Win elements bring those disparities into the game as well, and are under the direct control of the developers.

Edit: fixed typo