I.d see it in combination with https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-open-v-solo-v-groups-thread.607291/post-9942831
Piracy : include data-mining limpets
- Thread starter Dox Paradox
- Start date
Hence steal, not copy.
Harsh, yes but the chances are slim. It would add tension because of danger anticipation more than actual danger.
Still can happen tough, but it doesn't have to steal ALL data at once.
Would be like 5% per limpet (single use)
I've never understood the logic there. At some point you need to risk- assess and go "every day I'm out here, I'm adding more and more data, and therefore carrying more and more risk in the case of a catastrophic event"... at some that would normally reach a point where you are no longer comfortable carrying that risk, and go turn in.
Like, how much cash are you comfortable carrying on your person? $100.. sure... $1,000... not usually but ok...$10,000... done that once and it never left my grip. $100,000? I tap out.
Elite is the only game I've seen where there's people for whom that risk isn't considered, then blame the game if they lose it all.... it's bizarre (and slightly off topic, so I'll leave it there)
PD's gotta be way better. No cooldown, and practically insta-gibs limpets. Only downside is that a volley of missiles can take it down, but by the time that happens, you're probably down and out anyways.
Yeah, you're right. There's far-off stations to cash in data that are safe nowadays, too...
Reading above, I like the idea. Wonder how they could implement tracking down explorers - can't just hope for random chance. That doesn't work in the bubble.
Not needed to be human explorer, could be just a mssion generated by pirate faction to wait for the certain ship in SC nearby to the system nav beacon. Then attempt to interdict that ship and steal the data. As opposed to the other illegal missions the notoriety received in case of accidential kill would not be cleaned after mission completion. If target is managed to flee it could be a couple of more times another system given to attempt to track the target.
It also not necessary has to be target in SC - might be also ship landed on planet surface and NPC walking or driving nearby. Involwing some on-foot combat elements to incapacitate target and then attempt to steal data.
I don't like the idea of stealing exploration data. You would turn the game overnight from being a chill and imaginative experience for many into a tense, stressful, nefarious cesspool that would simply scare many more players into playing solo while the forums would be rife with yet more PvP-centric arguments and complaints.
I already think it's depressing that players can lose literal years' worth of exploration data without any opportunity to recover it (barring generous help from Support) - the thought of how much time and effort has disappeared into the ether is daunting. It still puzzles me that Fdev have never implemented a 'black box' mechanic for that.
There's just too much potential for toxicity, effort nullification, and exploitation - far more trouble than it's worth, whatever the lofty aims of the competitive-minded.
I already think it's depressing that players can lose literal years' worth of exploration data without any opportunity to recover it (barring generous help from Support) - the thought of how much time and effort has disappeared into the ether is daunting. It still puzzles me that Fdev have never implemented a 'black box' mechanic for that.
There's just too much potential for toxicity, effort nullification, and exploitation - far more trouble than it's worth, whatever the lofty aims of the competitive-minded.
But as someone else stated above, don't you think it is up to the explorer to mitigate the potential loss by NOT keeping years of exploration data?
Risks are always there for the explorer, a white dwarf can kill her easily because of a slightly off manoeuvre...
And finding players don't have to be easy. Tens of thousands of routes toward the bubble =)
And it doesn't mean losing everything, could be a fraction. Hey, reward without high risk? What game is that?
From my experience, losing (money, ship, data..) is part of Elite experience. It's OK it's a game.
I do not believe scanning a ship (or any device) for data removes the data from the source. I believe stealing data means "taking a copy of it". Why can't I scan something more than once? I suppose for game reasons and also because you already have a copy of it. But I don't think the source actually looses something. IRL stealing data usually means copying it. Unless a physical device is taken.
The OP's idea is data mining limpets. Stealing cartographic data using limpets instead of a scanner. Do they steal AND delete data? Or physically remove a data storage device from the ship? Perhaps.
If not, then copying exploration data would be an easy exploit. A cmdr returns with a billion Cr worth of exploration data and lets all the friends 'steal' (copy) it. First discoveries might be lost to who sells the data first, sure whatever.
The OP's idea is data mining limpets. Stealing cartographic data using limpets instead of a scanner. Do they steal AND delete data? Or physically remove a data storage device from the ship? Perhaps.
If not, then copying exploration data would be an easy exploit. A cmdr returns with a billion Cr worth of exploration data and lets all the friends 'steal' (copy) it. First discoveries might be lost to who sells the data first, sure whatever.
We all know why. Explorers are noble and special, while everyone else are murderous unwashed ruffians.
Similar concept IRL... people that don't back up their work. I have known people who spend weeks on a project then lose it with absolutely no backup. No thought to periodicaly save their stuff on a thumb drive or equiv. People with university degrees, and work with technology every day. Sometmies multiple times. What the heck?
In the current ED universe I can't imagine not selling data regularly at a fleet carrier. And definitely before returning to human space. And again immediately upon returning to human space.
I don't see the value you're placing on inflicting risk upon players. Making the galaxy alive and exciting is one thing, introducing risk and frustration just for the sake if it is another thing entirely - especially if it's in the form of encouraging players to screw around with each other.
It's worth remembering we didn't use to have the DSSA around to make it relatively easier to deliver exploration data regularly.
I don't think a game needs to constantly threaten the player with crushing defeat to be fun.
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To be honest though, how many explorers are there on multi year benders? Not that many I'd say.
People complain that NPC pirates are out to get them in missions, well, if NPCs can steal the data you hold (and thus data missions are not the milk runs they are now) thats a good thing since in this hypothetical example pirates want to disable and raid your data.
Although its possible other players could steal data from explorers, the chance is vanishingly small unless the explorer is incredibly stupid.
Data limpets (and data) would incentivize non destruction on sight, and be a new form of cargo to protect- esp in the BGS.
But hand in hand with this explorers should get tools- such as having modules (for a weight / size penalty) to directly transmit data, and have retrievable black boxes.
A number of "explorer" NPCs may be generated based on the location of the player (the more the farther from the bubble center). So it could be completely new way to "explore" the galaxy - hunting down explorers coming back from exploration trips.
Not only distance from the bubble, but systems in the expansion state. For some reason, they love exploration data. Might as well put some explorer NPCs there, if FD's at it.
Regarding ability to redeem exploration data on FC - I would introduce some penalty - maybe 25% when redeeming at FC (like combat bonds via Interstellar Factors).Loss on rebuy is a subjective thing. I am almost always carrying quite a bit of explo data for example, it's a handy way to quickly apply fairly precise amounts of influence to a faction that controls a dockable asset. On the rare occasions I get popped it matters to me, and it stops me being too complacent.
Right now I have 22 pages of explo data on me, and while I could just sell it whenever I dock on my carrier... well where's the fun in that? When I eventually get back to the bubble I can do a lot more with that data than just earn cash & get tags, assuming I manage to sell it
And make an alternative to store them on FC and read back when needed before going to Universal Cartographics at the station.
... and there you wonder why most explorers play in trusted PGs or solo only.
Go get your own data you leech.
Judging by vicarious observation of posting habits over the years, there are more 'deep explorers' than you seem to think. And I reckon the "possibility" of players stealing data would be quite high in Open, especially by anybody frequenting hotspots. I remember several incidents over the years of gankers camping out at Sag. A and boasting about how many harmless explorers they destroyed and all the data gathering they wasted. I really do not see such "stupidity-punishing" as a positive influence on anybody's game experience.
Griefers have proven time and time again they are willing to resort to anything to get their jollies off on sabotaging the game for other people. Enabling yet another way for players to screw with each other in this game is not a good thing.
Piracy already "incentivizes" 'non destruction on sight', yet it's obvious that the great majority of the time, that is not what takes place in most organic Open PvP encounters. That's why incidents where it doesn't happen continues to be events worthy of note on Reddit, for instance.
Of course, if FDev would commit to an official PvE mode, that would avert much of this issue we are opposed on....
But exactly how many? I still maintain its not as large as people think it is. However, the amount of people doing data missions for factions I'd bet is much, much more. The further out you go, the lower the chances of seeing other people until its near zero.
And frankly, the idea (i.e. data as cargo) has many merits, the most basic being that you actually have to think where you go. There are many, many fringe systems that see exactly no traffic. And if you want to use the data for BGS work, well, game on since its now being weaponised.
And I find it amusing that for some reason data piracy is now considered griefing too, even when its legitimate. "Stupidity punishing" is simply making players actually have to think about what they do, unlike now where its mind numbingly basic.