Piracy - interaction & the player base

[mossfoot]

It would be nice if there could be a set of protocols most of us could follow (not that it would ever happen, we can't even agree on how to dock at stations )

-Pirates should assume and allow for a trader to boost away. That shouldn't be taken as an excuse to open fire. Just try to catch up.
-Pirates should have a preprogramed hail ready to send immediately when the interdiction works--but can someone tell me if it would work better to send a message just BEFORE you interdict? That way the victim, while struggling with the escape, has had a glance to see that whoever is after them will not blow them away immediately?
-Traders should not SC out ASAP if a hail has been made. Feel free to keep your distance, mind you.
-Would it be inappropriate for allowing a Trader to open their gun ports? At least on a non-combat oriented ship?

Now that said, comm chatting is the big problem. I managed to talk to three people AND fly last night, but it was like balancing spinning plates on sticks on every hand and foot. What if the menu was set up so that when you select a commander one of the options is a submenu for pre-written categories of responses (since not everyone has a Voice Attack like setup and pasting text you can only have one choice available at any given time). You could customize these as you see fit.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

I flew back to my starter system with my Asp full of Palladium, planning to give it away freely to any CMDR in starter Sidewinder needing a little cash.

I spent hours greeting players at several space stations, rarely did anyone ever answer. I chatted up people in supercruise, but they rejected my offer because they had "other plans".

The ratio was about 1 in 10.

One in ten people did so much as react to my greetings. None of them wanted my Palladium. I sold it in Eravate and and flew back to Lave for some rare trading.

This game is so full of antisocial types that open play seems like a bad joke to me.

 

[mossfoot]

I flew back to my starter system with my Asp full of Palladium, planning to give it away freely to any CMDR in starter Sidewinder needing a little cash.

I spent hours greeting players at several space stations, rarely did anyone ever answer. I chatted up people in supercruise, but they rejected my offer because they had "other plans".

The ratio was about 1 in 10.

One in ten people did so much as react to my greetings. None of them wanted my Palladium. I sold it in Eravate and and flew back to Lave for some rare trading.

This game is so full of antisocial types that open play seems like a bad joke to me.

Honestly, I relish any chance to interact with people. Shame others don't. But at the same time, I'm not sure I'd take the Palladium. part of me would be worried [insert Admiral Ackbar meme here], but also I'm making my own way in the galaxy and don't need handouts.

Now, since I'm flying a Lakon Type 6, if you were to offer to fly escort to Yembo, I'd be totally down with that

 

[Tigga]

I flew back to my starter system with my Asp full of Palladium, planning to give it away freely to any CMDR in starter Sidewinder needing a little cash.

I spent hours greeting players at several space stations, rarely did anyone ever answer. I chatted up people in supercruise, but they rejected my offer because they had "other plans".

The ratio was about 1 in 10.

One in ten people did so much as react to my greetings. None of them wanted my Palladium. I sold it in Eravate and and flew back to Lave for some rare trading.

This game is so full of antisocial types that open play seems like a bad joke to me.

If I had just started playing I wouldn't accept it either. I want to play the game, not be boosted past the first few hours of gameplay.

 

[Quineloe]

I flew back to my starter system with my Asp full of Palladium, planning to give it away freely to any CMDR in starter Sidewinder needing a little cash.

I spent hours greeting players at several space stations, rarely did anyone ever answer. I chatted up people in supercruise, but they rejected my offer because they had "other plans".

The ratio was about 1 in 10.

One in ten people did so much as react to my greetings. None of them wanted my Palladium. I sold it in Eravate and and flew back to Lave for some rare trading.

This game is so full of antisocial types that open play seems like a bad joke to me.

Not accepting a communist handout now is anti-social?

 

[DrDeathO5]

The amount of people not preferring to communicate is very telling in open mode...

One of the reasons is the comm-system that needs an upgrade
Second is the unbelievable amount of people who are pretty paranoid and scared to loose their ship because of the time invested to get one... i.o.w. the grind is to big to allow a relaxed atmosfere.

The game is not dangerous or difficult but the 'grind' makes it you act like it is 'dangerous'...
for most traders PVP is the boogieman that keeps chasing them in their nightmares

 

[Rhonda]

I haven't been properly pirated yet, but I wish I had met OP. Would have gladly paid some ransom for good RP instead of mindless killing.

 

[bigmuthatrukka]

This is what i mean.... sigh

Noooo... don't kill to many because you chase people away...
I mean come on. People do realise this is an online game or not?

How on earth do you expect people to do other stuff then trading... if you give no rewards to other 'professions'?
Did the thought occur that you can drive people away if this whole universe stays a trucking simulator?
Is the game gonna end if you chase some traders into solo?
I would say this is a good thing... people who don't wanna get shot down once in a while should stay in solo.


Why are people so scared of chasing traders away and at the same time are nor scared to chase bounty hunters / pirates / smugglers / explorers and miners away?
Some messed up thinking...

Should elite 'dangerous' stay a game where you can do everything but only earn something with trading?
Sure you can mine , explore, bounty hunt, smuggle but hey don't expect any credits from it because well we gotta keep the traders happy!!!

Elite Dangerous. Not Elite Farmville. This is not the sims it is Elite. if you are new to elite then you won't realise the fundamental freedom to do what you want. You have the option of solo/private if you want to be a Farmville type, hell I do it myself when the bank balance is wearing thin, but the essence of elite includes all the possibilities out there. Sadly Piracy and mining need a real leg up to make them attractive and viable. With wings coming the dynamics will change anyway, but having enjoyed this game for 30 years in all its incarnations I would be saddened if it became a tame trader.

 

[Daffan]

I flew back to my starter system with my Asp full of Palladium, planning to give it away freely to any CMDR in starter Sidewinder needing a little cash.

I spent hours greeting players at several space stations, rarely did anyone ever answer. I chatted up people in supercruise, but they rejected my offer because they had "other plans".

The ratio was about 1 in 10.

One in ten people did so much as react to my greetings. None of them wanted my Palladium. I sold it in Eravate and and flew back to Lave for some rare trading.

This game is so full of antisocial types that open play seems like a bad joke to me.

Because there is no safety net like high-sec in EVE

It's best to assume every system, even ones that are security in this game as back-street in Africa or whatever. Kind of ridiculous the overall planning that went into multiplayer in this game.

 

[DaveB]

That absolutely must not happen. No rewards for blowing somebody up. It's also a very bad idea that drives can be completely destroyed leaving players helpless.

As of 1.1 the field maintenance module is your friend. I tested it in the beta and it can restore thrusters from 0%, restoring maneuverability

 

[bigmuthatrukka]

I have come to the conclusion that piracy in an online game is something that sounds awesome in theory, but in practice can't work. Everyone thinks it sounds so cool: swashbuckling space pirates struggling in a game of one-upsmanship with yeoman traders. In reality, no one wants to be the target, and most players would rather lose everything and re-start than capitulate even an inch. You can argue reason all you want, but that's the state of player psychology right now, and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to change.

As far as the idea of having blown up ships drop loot, that idea would be terrible for the game. The fact is - and it has been proven time and time again - most players are unapologetic carebears. The masses want co-op and strictly consentual PVP. See also Ultima Online. You might wish for a free-for-all space shooting world of lasers and missiles, but I don't think you'll find it here anytime soon. So you can forget your fantasies of flying around in an eagle brutally murdering every type 6 that dares play in open. You really think that would be sustainable? Every angry adolescent in gaming would be flying around murdering anything that moves. That's some deep gameplay right there.

Edit: If you're interested in reading more about "Good sounding MMO ideas that work out poorly" and the consequences of free-for-all PvP, check out this article. It's long but a great read from 2001 when this stuff was still fresh. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2001/05/28/pimps-and-dragons

Maybe multiplayer has broken elite??? Elite has always been a single player game and you could always sift through the wreckage of your victims for loot. You also got a pretty swift response from the law and were often bushwacked by large groups of pirates. Sounds to me like the Old boys like me haven't got a problem with it but all the little emo kids that like mmo's have?
I mean that might be a little harsh, but 30 years ago when you played games they would shaft you. you would lose and you would start all over again. They were hard. You could play Jet Set willy on the spectrum for 3 hours, no save facility no start again, you would be a hairs breadth from completion and squidge... game over. Start again. These days games are all about saving progress, start from where you died, we'll get you through the story somehow. Elite is tough. I have learned many a hard lesson already, including going from 19mil of asp to sidewinder because of a stupid maths failure and taking on more than I could handle. People need to man up and get a bag of nuts. Learn from your mistakes ccept that you might lose the odd ship, have your buyback, live with piracy, docking failures horrid little white suns. Be Elite.

 

[Chummy62]

I was just considering why people play World of Warcraft in open PVP and Battle Grounds.

When a player dies in WoW, they come back, full health without loosing any of their belongings. Their equipment suffers from wear, but the repair costs are not significant. The only thing you truly loose is the time it takes to ghost walk back to your resurrection point or you can choose to resurrect at the closest graveyard.

When playing Elite Dangerous, when a player's ship dies, you loose the ship and your cargo and pray you saved enough credits to cover the insurance cost. You stand to loose millions of in game credits, hours of game play time effort, your cargo and must go back to the last place your ship was docked.

My humble comparison of the two games would indicate that the loss suffered from loosing your ship compared to the fun everyone would have if the consequences weren't so high may need some more balancing. I would play open if the game mechanics did not have the potential to set me all the way back to a sidewinder and 1,000 Credits.

 

[Conestoga]

Maybe multiplayer has broken elite??? Elite has always been a single player game and you could always sift through the wreckage of your victims for loot. You also got a pretty swift response from the law and were often bushwacked by large groups of pirates. Sounds to me like the Old boys like me haven't got a problem with it but all the little emo kids that like mmo's have?
I mean that might be a little harsh, but 30 years ago when you played games they would shaft you. you would lose and you would start all over again. They were hard. You could play Jet Set willy on the spectrum for 3 hours, no save facility no start again, you would be a hairs breadth from completion and squidge... game over. Start again. These days games are all about saving progress, start from where you died, we'll get you through the story somehow. Elite is tough. I have learned many a hard lesson already, including going from 19mil of asp to sidewinder because of a stupid maths failure and taking on more than I could handle. People need to man up and get a bag of nuts. Learn from your mistakes ccept that you might lose the odd ship, have your buyback, live with piracy, docking failures horrid little white suns. Be Elite.

I agree that I'd probably enjoy the game a lot more if it were more difficult. I also agree that it would probably have been a better idea to tip the balance more in favor of single player than go for an MMO feel. MMOs have inherent complexity that doesn't make the payoff cut in my opinion. I guess that's not what the designers had in mind artistically.

The main difficulty in creating content for this game will always be the inherent tension between vastly different player populations that arise when your game has a wide breadth. Most gamers are casual, and even the ones on the upper half of the player interaction bell curve, so to speak, would be characterized as wanting consentual PVP only. The most popular video game in history is Tetris. The most popular MMO in history has 70% of its population on PVE-only servers.

If you want to sell a lot of your game, that's who you're going to shoot for.

Now, not every game has to go for the broadest of markets, since the minority segments are still huge. Call of Duty, Counter Strike and Team Fortress, for example, have proven there's a market catering to PVP-lovers. But those games are inherently balanced with limited scope. I don't think that's the direction this game has ever been intended to go.

Competitive PVP in MMOs is almost non-existant, and there are reasons for that.

 

[Phyl]

People need to man up and get a bag of nuts. Learn from your mistakes ccept that you might lose the odd ship, have your buyback, live with piracy, docking failures horrid little white suns.

Well said - I see ED as something different from all other games - it's more simulation of a life... Life is tough - you have to take the rough with the smooth, fight your own fight and don't expect much sympathy from others as it dog-eat-dog and they're not going to cut you any slack!

 

[mossfoot]

I was just considering why people play World of Warcraft in open PVP and Battle Grounds.

When a player dies in WoW, they come back, full health without loosing any of their belongings. Their equipment suffers from wear, but the repair costs are not significant. The only thing you truly loose is the time it takes to ghost walk back to your resurrection point or you can choose to resurrect at the closest graveyard.

When playing Elite Dangerous, when a player's ship dies, you loose the ship and your cargo and pray you saved enough credits to cover the insurance cost. You stand to loose millions of in game credits, hours of game play time effort, your cargo and must go back to the last place your ship was docked.

My humble comparison of the two games would indicate that the loss suffered from loosing your ship compared to the fun everyone would have if the consequences weren't so high may need some more balancing. I would play open if the game mechanics did not have the potential to set me all the way back to a sidewinder and 1,000 Credits.

I just don't understand how that can not be seen as a thrill than a con.

Heck, some of us aren't satisfied with that, and go full IronMan (wipe save on death). Others, like myself, seek something inbetween and have come up with this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=107694

 

[Chummy62]

I suggested rebalancing, not inconsequential death. As I said, this is an observation, not necessarily a stong suggestion.

And I'm also one of those players from 30 years ago. Of course there were a lot of games that would allow you to restart from the last game save that could only occur at a dock.

 

[Julio Montega]

Today i started with some nice piracy experiences,
the first T7 was a giantific bronco, i battled with him like 3 minutes, until he made a sharp turn along with some lag and
let me dump out of my tethering attempt.
Got rusted eh?

Next up was a pretty quick interdiction of a T6,
the messages seemed to have had effect on the player, dropping my demanded cargo
without any gunfire or resistance.

The next one was a bronco t7 again, cheers for the piloting,
you had me hunt your low energy wake,
follow you into supercruise again and win a hard interdiction.
Finally i got rewarded with shiny beryllium,
and had to mark my turf against another 'rat in an asp.

Brilliant evening so far!

 

[Malloryn]

I just don't understand how that can not be seen as a thrill than a con.

Heck, some of us aren't satisfied with that, and go full IronMan (wipe save on death). Others, like myself, seek something inbetween and have come up with this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=107694

It's a thrill because there can be skill involved and difference between classes that make it interesting. Sure, a level 100 can go to a newbie/lowbie area and do PVP for just sh*ts and grins, but there is literally no reward for it. Being able to one-shot someone is not fun and it doesn't set back the other player except for a small amount of inconvenience (30 seconds of time). PVP death here is painful and expensive. If FD wants to increase PVP in ED, it will have to be less painful and costly.

Malloryn

 

[Conestoga]

I just don't understand how that can not be seen as a thrill than a con.

WoW and Farmville have proven that most game players are very happy with a skinner box and have zero - and I mean zero - interest in anything remotely involving adrenaline. WoW's PVP population is relatively small potatoes, and that game has ten million subscribers. Most people in the game kill the boars, then kill more boars. You might bring up, accurately, that that's not Elite. But those guys are the ones with the money, and there are millions of them.

As a side note, I don't consider myself a carebear, and I want a difficult game. I'm just trying to shed light as to why people don't play hardcore.

 

[mossfoot]

WoW and Farmville have proven that most game players are very happy with a skinner box and have zero - and I mean zero - interest in anything remotely involving adrenaline. WoW's PVP population is relatively small potatoes, and that game has ten million subscribers. Most people in the game kill the boars, then kill more boars. You might bring up, accurately, that that's not Elite. But those guys are the ones with the money, and there are millions of them.

As a side note, I don't consider myself a carebear, and I want a difficult game. I'm just trying to shed light as to why people don't play hardcore.

Fair enough, and good point. But a game can't be all things to all people. I don't go onto Farmville and WoW trying to make it more hardcore, after all

The good thing about Star Citizen and No Man's Sky coming out will be the odds that one of them fit more in line with player's expectations of consequences, and time will sort out the rest.