Pirate Dichotomy and how to talk about them

[body count]

I'm putting myself into category of: alpha centauri blockader and earth and federation protector who kills anyone trying to trade or work in alpha centauri. We just can't have independent system so close to Earth. Who knows what those maniacs are capable of I had some moral dilema about it, so I asked federation president how he feels about it and he was like: "nah body, federation is gratefull for you service, keep up the good work!", so all is good I guess

 

[Olivia Vespera]

Great explanation of what a Mercenary does

That's my viewpoint anyway, I may be completely incorrect

Who am I to deny a person with a red metal arm. I feel like I need a better term for a person who's hired to kill as opposed to a mercenary who seems to do a lot of things.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

i've added a bit more clarity, but from the OP this is the bit that explains it and has remained virtually unchanged. It was listed under Rationale. Hope that helps!

You're proposing a solution which would not work, to a problem that doesn't exist (and is also missing from the op)

 

[Zenith]

Don't try to sugarcoat it.

There's pirates, there's gankers and there's griefers.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which is which.

 

[xondk]

Problem:
I think the term, "pirate" have been applied uniformly and incorrectly to all players who operate "outside" the law. We don't have the vocabulary to talk about outlaws beyond calling all of them colloquially, "pirates" or "gankers", interchangeably. We need some clarity of our terms.

I want to comment on the term "Gankers" specifically, the way I learned it through the years of gaming that I grew up with, though I will admit it has changed since then apparently, but ganking basically is many people ganging up on a single target a target they wouldn't otherwise be able to handle, and in the later part lies the key to it in my mind, it is a something used against someone they can't handle alone, where griefing can also include ganking, but it is done against someone they could most definitely handle alone.
When people go against a raid boss and such? that's effectively ganking, numbers vs power. But numbers vs no power?, and power being based around the fact that a sole member of the number could handle the person on their own, then it is griefing.

Basically http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gank?s=t
Still holds the 'real' reference to this word in my opinion

But yeah it would be nice if this could get cleaned up because it quickly becomes one big mess of people accusing a group of being something they are not or maybe even single people of something they are not.

 

[Olivia Vespera]

Don't try to sugarcoat it.

There's pirates, there's gankers and there's greifers.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which is which.

I have no desire to sugar coat it. It would be great if you could explain your terms. I can't say much without understanding you. I like what xnodk said after you.

I want to comment on the term "Gankers" specifically, the way I learned it through the years of gaming that I grew up with, though I will admit it has changed since then apparently, but ganking basically is many people ganging up on a single target a target they wouldn't otherwise be able to handle, and in the later part lies the key to it in my mind, it is a something used against someone they can't handle alone, where griefing can also include ganking, but it is done against someone they could most definitely handle alone.
When people go against a raid boss and such? that's effectively ganking, numbers vs power. But numbers vs no power?, and power being based around the fact that a sole member of the number could handle the person on their own, then it is griefing.

Basically http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gank?s=t
Still holds the 'real' reference to this word in my opinion

But yeah it would be nice if this could get cleaned up because it quickly becomes one big mess of people accusing a group of being something they are not or maybe even single people of something they are not.

I hope you liked the terms i've chosen. I don't think i'll be including gankers in the dichotomy as they do seem to be strategies as opposed to group specific traits.

You're proposing a solution which would not work, to a problem that doesn't exist (and is also missing from the op)

Xondk who created a post before mine seems to have no problem finding it.

 

[Becks]

Worst.
Pirates.
Ever.

All I could think of.

 

[Zenith]

Okay, if you push me for it then this is my opinion.

Pirates are the "proper" RP players who are all about the "stand and deliver".
Gankers are those who blast you out of the sky with no warning, either through overwhelming firepower or numbers in a wing.
Griefers are those who repeatedly harrass a player, or repeatedly exploit a game mechanism to interfere with other player's enjoyment.

 

[Kazacy]

Lets make it even simpler:

There are thieves and murderer's.

Yes that's the one. As for me until FD will implement some decent credit transfer system i will remain only a murderer, with a badge from Archon Delaine.
PS: from time to time, i also love smuggling in a shieldless CobraMK3, the Han Solo feeling is strong

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Xondk's before mine seems to have no problem finding it.

You didn't list a problem, you wrote the word problem in big blue letters than then followed it with how we talk about pirates. I'm not being facetious, where is the problem?

 

[Olivia Vespera]

Okay, if you push me for it then this is my opinion.

Pirates are the "proper" RP players who are all about the "stand and deliver".
Gankers are those who blast you out of the sky with no warning, either through overwhelming firepower or numbers in a wing.
Griefers are those who repeatedly harrass a player, or repeatedly exploit a game mechanism to interfere with other player's enjoyment.

Alright, to that I'd point out there this dichotomy doesn't take into accord whether they're hired to do this or if they're working out of self interest. For instance say i was a powerplaying group and i wanted to lock down a system. so every player who goes through it is warned to either high-wake it out or be prepared to be killed. The.. mercenary as i'd like to call them according to my dichotomy wouldn't be accounted. there's also the other thing about whether they're organised or freelancers but yeah.

As said no sugar coating. no remarks about whether they're good or bad. just a breakdown of what these different types of outlaws do.

 

[Martian Successor]

In answer to the OP about pirates and gankers: the way I see it is, pirates pirate and gankers gank. A pirate is only interested in stealing cargo and will make their intentions known via comms. They generally look to avoid killing the victim unless the victim opens fire on them first. A ganker is only interested in killing people in weaker ships than them or of lower combat rank. They generally tend to open fire on you and kill you without ever saying a word.

Who am I to deny a person with a red metal arm. I feel like I need a better term for a person who's hired to kill as opposed to a mercenary who seems to do a lot of things.

Assassin. They're hired to kill a single target or even multiple targets but unlike a Mercenary they will not fight in wars or retrieve possibly stolen items from heavily fortified positions, etc. You could also use the term Ninja to differentiate between a highly skilled shadow killer (kills only the target) and another type of assassin that kills anyone that comes between them and their target (bodyguards, innocent bystanders, cops, etc)

 

[Olivia Vespera]

You didn't list a problem, you wrote the word problem in big blue letters than then followed it with how we talk about pirates. I'm not being facetious, where is the problem?

Well... that's the problem... how we talk about players we call "pirates" is confusing. we should be clearer. here's the quote from the OP, verbatim.

"I think the term, "pirate" have been applied uniformly and incorrectly to all players who operate "outside" the law."

I assume you didn't think this is a problem, but I did.

A ganker is only interested in killing people in weaker ships than them or of lower combat rank. They generally tend to open fire on you and kill you without ever saying a word.

I had a term, Reaver for them but it didn't fit after i refined the outlaw types. A reaver would be a freelancing marauder.

Assassin. They're hired to kill a single target or even multiple targets but unlike a Mercenary they will not fight in wars or retrieve possibly stolen items from heavily fortified positions, etc. You could also use the term Ninja to differentiate between a highly skilled shadow killer (kills only the target) and another type of assassin that kills anyone that comes between them and their target (bodyguards, innocent bystanders, cops, etc)

I'm warming up to this idea.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Well... that's the problem... how we talk about players we call "pirates" is confusing. we should be clearer. here's the quote from the OP, verbatim.

"I think the term, "pirate" have been applied uniformly and incorrectly to all players who operate "outside" the law."

I assume you didn't think this is a problem, but I did.

Actually I don't see people using the word pirate as a catch all, most of the time people causing problems are referred to by their clan name rather than some criminal subtype. When the type is referenced it's either pirate or ganker. Presumably pirates will take your stuff and maybe kill you, and gankers will kill you and maybe take your stuff. Haven't had any confusion understanding these classifications so far.

 

[xondk]

I hope you liked the terms i've chosen. I don't think i'll be including gankers in the dichotomy as they do seem to be strategies as opposed to group specific traits.

Corsairs is the only one which is missing really, which were last I checked basically sanctioned pirates, or at least that's the term I know it by but yes otherwise I like your idea

 

[Olivia Vespera]

Corsairs is the only one which is missing really, which were last I checked basically sanctioned pirates, or at least that's the term I know it by but yes otherwise I like your idea

What's the difference between a privateer and a corsair? aren't they both sanctioned pirates?

To CMDR Biscuit, if it's not a problem for you, then that's interesting. If others have had no problems talking about outlaws in general and haven't stumbled on their terms then that's interesting to know. i alla fall, I think we've reach a point where we understand each other. Thanks for letting me know what you thought.

 

[Martian Successor]

I had a term, Reaver for them but it didn't fit after i refined the outlaw types. A reaver would be a freelancing marauder.


I'm warming up to this idea.

Maybe its because I like Firefly but the term Reaver has me thinking 'crazy cannibals' rather than anything else

For me personally, I don't tend to think of 'ganker' as an in-game role that someone plays like say role playing as a pirate, mercenary, assassin, etc. To me a ganker means anyone that preys on weaker 'players' (not Commanders) on purpose in order to have an easier time of killing them for no reason other than to enjoy building up their false fantasy of being a super awesome player.

If pushed to define this type as a real life/role play character stereotype I would say a ganker is a cowardly murderer. I say cowardly not as an insult but as an accurate description - they murder, they run. They never wish to fight on equal terms. Some murderers don't mind fighting opponents on equal terms - that would make them stone cold killers I guess, another sub division. So many sub categories, yikes!

That's why I like to keep things simple and play/role play by following this simple principle:

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t...e35/12552448_1104082402938123_265856422_n.jpg

EDIT:
You pretty much nailed it when you said gankers are strategies as opposed to individual/group traits.

I hope you liked the terms i've chosen. I don't think i'll be including gankers in the dichotomy as they do seem to be strategies as opposed to group specific traits.

 

[unrealization]

It is not about being political correct at all but not having time to do so.

Gankers/griefers don't give you time for more. Interdiction, pew pew pew, boom, rebuy screen.

I really agree with the sentiment of your idea, that it might be helpful in discussions about the various shades of piracy-related activities. But I also think it wouldn't work.
Most people simply want to avoid pirates of any flavor, because they, quite understandably, don't want to lose their credits. The chance of coming out of the interdiction and instantly being shot isn't very attractive, especially for those already low on credits.

 

[Olivia Vespera]

Gankers/griefers don't give you time for more. Interdiction, pew pew pew, boom, rebuy screen.

I really agree with the sentiment of your idea, that it might be helpful in discussions about the various shades of piracy-related activities. But I also think it wouldn't work.
Most people simply want to avoid pirates of any flavor, because they, quite understandably, don't want to lose their credits. The chance of coming out of the interdiction and instantly being shot isn't very attractive, especially for those already low on credits.

you're saying it wouldn't work because people (and we mean prey that these various groups target) would simply avoid outlaws because they don't wnat to deal with them. I don't see how they're relevant. As you've noted these terms are to be used as a tool in discussions about outlaws. If certain preys don't wish to get involved in the discussion then that's a-okay. I don't see how that would prevent ... i'm not entirely sure what "it" is... from working.

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Maybe its because I like Firefly but the term Reaver has me thinking 'crazy cannibals' rather than anything else

In DWE we started referring to outlaws who killed member of the expedition as "pirates". When I read that, i noticed it didn't make sense because they're not after our cargo if they're wantonly killing people out here. I decided to quest for the use of "reaver" because it did actual pirates an injustice. We should be calling them what they really are.

Beyond that, i liked everything you said after.

 

[unrealization]

(and we mean prey that these various groups target)

Your use of the word prey to describe a variety of professions, including, but not limited to, miners, explorers and traders, is just as distasteful, if not even more so, as using pirates to describe those you are trying to categorize right now.
Not only that, you have to audacitiy to call these people irrelevant? Wow. Really. Wow. Especially considering that they are the players who would have most use for the categories you are suggesting, because they are the ones that complain about being blown up/robbed/tickled under their feet for an unreasonably long period of time.

To me those players that take up legitimate professions are much more relevant than the collective dirt under our galaxy's fingernails that you currently appear to be siding with. And I am starting to question your intentions. Do you really want to help along the discussion or are you maybe just tired being called a pirate/terrorist/whatever yourself?