please don't confuse PvPers with griefers

[Meraco]

There ARE consequences - they're called bounty hunters

Too little too late when you encounter ego at the wrong place at the wrong time.. None shall deprive me of 6 hours of effort simply cause he had a few drinks and wants to blow anything that moves..

Solo Mode

The peace is real...

*twerking*

 

[Abbadon]

These threads are a little bit useless, just make the community cry, blame and other also usless stuffs. A huge % of the gamers will arrive to a point where the fun and experiance coused by defeating NPC players wont be enough, the same as old.
Meanwhile We should make threads about gathering thoose people who already want to taste some real battle, and forge them to a strong community. That's the marketing, not selling the wolfs as sheep with some upgrade from 3300.

 

[Adept]

It does when they are in the boxing ring...and that's what Elite: Dangerous is...it's the boxing ring. ;-D[/COLOR]

In Elite, we are members of a powerful society called the Pilots Federaton. We are the people mapping the galaxy, effecting colonisation patterns and swinging the trade balance of nations. The Pilots Federation does not approve of squabbling and mistreatment of it's members. Much of the penalties have not been implemented yet, but do not think that blowing other commanders up for the hell of it is what Elite is about, or the spirit of the game.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

This!

If you play with "human interaction" on...then you take the good with the bad, just like every other open world game.

This doesn't make any sense. Almost all "Open world" games have a either a pvp toggle or open world pve servers.

 

[Adept]

So the scumnbag cowards can pee wee pee all the newbie ships, get a huge bounty then have his buddy pop him and claim the prize? Just like eve online, lol

It's a wealth transfer then, as the ganker will still need to pay off the fine.

 

[Adept]

Piracy in Elite has usually involved murdering the victim (as it all too often has in reality). ED gives us some alternatives but it may end up with blowing the other guy up, particularly if he decides to put up a fight. Whilst in reality that would be murder as well as piracy, piracy in Elite is part of the game design that I wouldn't like to see made unviable (although it should be in some places). Therefore they shouldn't be treated as harshly as those who attack other players because they like upsetting other players (the type of people who teamkill in other games). How do you tell them apart, and is there a mechanic for dealing with it with a plausible in-game explanation.

Hell, someone roleplaying a jerk and someone who actually is a jerk is impossible to distinguish between since the results are the same but the game needs a few of the former, none of the latter.

Go read the DDF, and be surprised. The design goals are that pirates who kill their victims get no pirate rep, and harsh bounties. Proper pirates get the loot without murder.

 

[Belisar]

Personally I would like to see PvP zones. You could make them level dependent or even group based if you want to.

I appreciate that this would make those zones unlike real space but this is a game and it needs people to play it and I think it would benefit from more people in open play.

I would like to spend more time feeling part of a larger game but the potential to be hammered by someone who can wipe me in one or two hits leads me to spend more time than I would like in solo mode.

I am not sure that less people in open play is good for the game.

I am quite happy PvP in a close battle but see little for anyone to gain in a fight where either I wipe or get wiped so quickly. The game needs to be fun for all if it is to attract and retain players. Suggesting that those who do not like getting smashed should play solo seems to me to be very short sighted.

 

[CmdrJacks]

Had my first PvP yesterday. Was interdicted by a viper CMDR and without a pause he came at me guns blazing in my fairly stock adder. I got about two shots in with basic pulse lasers before he knocked my shields out. I started charging my FSD and his second salvo knocked me down to 9%, no canopy and five minutes of air. Four pips to engines and boost like crazy until my FSD kicks in. Got it docked, repaired and spent about 500k on upgrades. Was carrying about 100k worth of cargo so would have been a bit more upset if I'd have been blown away, I can understand why it might annoy people but I do have to admit.. it was fun.

 

[Ragnarock]

Holy Crap, some People take it too seriously. First of all this game isn`t called "dangerous " for no reason. You know what Dangerous means? If you are a Careabear, well good for you. Play in solo mode( what a lot of People already told you ). I can´t think of a reason how you could enjoy carying one thing from A to B without any risk of failing. This sounds like working to me. But well I don´t have to play that way. Some People of you were referring to the game as a Playground and I must ask myself, are you 6 Years old? You are Probably grown men and Women, who know how the real world works. So suck it up. And maybe if you are scared of other Players, how about hiring a mercanary?

But also I think you should name the People right. Players who are attacking every other Player are considered as Pirats and holy dong there are also npc Pirats, so why are they not allowed to play as a Pirat too? And for the Bounty Hunter, well nevermind them as long as you dont have a huge Bounty.

 

[Macgyver]

Too little too late when you encounter ego at the wrong place at the wrong time.. None shall deprive me of 6 hours of effort simply cause he had a few drinks and wants to blow anything that moves..

Solo Mode

The peace is real...

*twerking*

Amen to that

 

[Rockett]

Personally I would like to see PvP zones. You could make them level dependent or even group based if you want to.

I appreciate that this would make those zones unlike real space but this is a game and it needs people to play it and I think it would benefit from more people in open play.

I would like to spend more time feeling part of a larger game but the potential to be hammered by someone who can wipe me in one or two hits leads me to spend more time than I would like in solo mode.

I am not sure that less people in open play is good for the game.

I am quite happy PvP in a close battle but see little for anyone to gain in a fight where either I wipe or get wiped so quickly. The game needs to be fun for all if it is to attract and retain players. Suggesting that those who do not like getting smashed should play solo seems to me to be very short sighted.

no - thats a really terrible idea, and way too heavy handed for what is, after all, not a huge problem - despite what some claim.

Sure - make it difficult to have combat in certain areas - whether that be PvP or PvE - Systems where the police show up faster to investigate trouble. Have more agressive NPC bounty hunters chasing after people with bounties. Whatever.... as long as it is logically consistent with the game world. Magical areas where PvP cannot happen is not cool.

 

[Helvellyn]

Go read the DDF, and be surprised. The design goals are that pirates who kill their victims get no pirate rep, and harsh bounties. Proper pirates get the loot without murder.

Proper pirates will get people fighting back sometimes instead of handing over the loot, an entirely legitimate PvP fight for both sides (IMO).

 

[Macgyver]

Personally I would like to see PvP zones. You could make them level dependent or even group based if you want to.

I appreciate that this would make those zones unlike real space but this is a game and it needs people to play it and I think it would benefit from more people in open play.

I would like to spend more time feeling part of a larger game but the potential to be hammered by someone who can wipe me in one or two hits leads me to spend more time than I would like in solo mode.

I am not sure that less people in open play is good for the game.

I am quite happy PvP in a close battle but see little for anyone to gain in a fight where either I wipe or get wiped so quickly. The game needs to be fun for all if it is to attract and retain players. Suggesting that those who do not like getting smashed should play solo seems to me to be very short sighted.

Totally agree.
i was a newbie and was killed about 4 times over 2 hours by other players.
I couldn't get the Comms system to work as I was learning the game.
i lost all my cargo at beginning and had no money so had to restart.

i would love to play multi player but the risk of credit restart just doesn't appeal.
i now only play solo mode and am able to play casual without the risk of dying all the time because funnily enough, NPC pirates don't seem to bother with me.

 

[Helvellyn]

Holy Crap, some People take it too seriously. First of all this game isn`t called "dangerous " for no reason. You know what Dangerous means? If you are a Careabear, well good for you. Play in solo mode( what a lot of People already told you ). I can´t think of a reason how you could enjoy carying one thing from A to B without any risk of failing. This sounds like working to me. But well I don´t have to play that way. Some People of you were referring to the game as a Playground and I must ask myself, are you 6 Years old? You are Probably grown men and Women, who know how the real world works. So suck it up. And maybe if you are scared of other Players, how about hiring a mercanary?

But also I think you should name the People right. Players who are attacking every other Player are considered as Pirats and holy dong there are also npc Pirats, so why are they not allowed to play as a Pirat too? And for the Bounty Hunter, well nevermind them as long as you dont have a huge Bounty.

If you read it properly you'll see that pirates and bounty hunters aren't the issue, it's people who go around annoying people for "fun". Those whose idea of a good time is to find newbies and blast the hell out of them. Pirates and bounty hunters are in it for their gain, griefers for others loss. Some people seem to think that it's acceptable to be a jerk for the sake of it, that's just sad. Those whose motive is merely to try to spoil someone else's day.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

this seems to be a reoccurring theme on these boards, if a player shoots someone and it's not for profit, then it must be to cause grief.


[...]if a newbie wanders into this dangerous zone and gets blown up and stops to talk to the "evil pirates" what they will invariably get is a ton of advice and help on what to do next time. [...]

And as usual, the PvP community conviniently overlooks a few details :

- newbie doesn't have a "Dangerous Zone" indicated anywhere in the Galaxy Map, System Map or HUD
- newbie won't get a single piece of advice when blown up - instead will be shown an "Eject! Eject!" animation, directly followed by the Insurance Page

- PvP guys find it cool to have a "good scrap" and that's fine - but many of them seem to forget to ask their Target if they share the same view

And there it is.
No magic to it, nothing spectacular. Just do the basic 1+1, add some common sense... and noone will ever point fingers at a PvP guy.

However, to many PvP guys, above basic things seem to be an unsolvable mystery and they come here - actually surprised - that they're hated by many of their victims.
Worst of all, some Players seem to consider that "Dangerous Zone" a bubble of 10000Ls around their own ship - at any given time or location. And they assume unfamiliar Players have telepathic abilities to recognize them.
And that's the whole issue.

I've never read a Thread or Post here complaining about getting killed after agreeing into a PvP fight.
Just think about it and realize the required consequences for PvP Players, find out what many of them have been missing all that time.

PS.
Traders don't usually try to ram or destroy ships that trade at the same Station or in the same System.
Miners don't usually try to kill other Miners operating in the same resource belt.
Bounty hunters usually don't engage other bounty hunters at the same Nav Beacon.
PvP players however.... well, that's often another story. But you kinda get the point what's different with some of them

PPS.
Already months ago, I have commented and suggested/requested on implementing ways to "telegraph" a Player's intention towards all other Players within an Instance.

At least that way, people (incl. newbies) would know if they got potential trouble in their System - while other PvP guys could easily find people to join a good session of "good scrap".

For guys like me, it would have the advantage of openly indicating my Friendly nature to others, even when piloting a potent combat ship (that I've seen literally scares other small ships out of the way - or even make some transporters jump away in panic out of fear I could be a bad guy planning to interdict & attack them).
Just my presence visibly interfered with their gameplay - and there's nothing I could do about it aside from flying slow & steady towards the station. Still doesn't help too much whenever I have business around Starter Systems.

 

[starjump]

PvP in ED doesnt give anything if you arent wanted. It doesnt even count towards the kill rank since its considered murder. So there is no reason to PvP someone that is clean and doesnt want to fight. Im all for PvP, dont get me wrong, but that someone just wanna PvP you cause of PvP then you should both either be in on it or the one you attack has a bounty. In MMO's you do it to raise rank, get certain currency towards PvP gear etc, or you do it for fun but then its usually a duel where both want to test their skills against eachother. Again, nothing wrong in that, but if you attack a player that has arent wanted and is not in on it then its not so cool. It would be cool anywhere else where you gain something, but here we are space explorers and stuff and attacking without bounty is a criminal offense. So there is a small difference.
|
Some talked about getting a rush from PvP, and i say yeah you do get a rush, but it comes from that you can gain or lose something. Might be a big rush for those being attacked as they dont want to lose their ship and have to pay insurance. And a rush for those attacking if the ship they attack have a big bounty. I definately have had massive rushes in PvP in different games/sims. Heart starts pounding and palms getting sweaty. Its awesome. If you dont feel it then the game might not be immersive enough for you to be "in it".

 

[Connatic]

In Elite, we are members of a powerful society called the Pilots Federaton. We are the people mapping the galaxy, effecting colonisation patterns and swinging the trade balance of nations. The Pilots Federation does not approve of squabbling and mistreatment of it's members. Much of the penalties have not been implemented yet, but do not think that blowing other commanders up for the hell of it is what Elite is about, or the spirit of the game.

I was more talking about the very act of Piracy in a video game isn't quite equal to being mugged on the street. The game itself is like the boxing ring. We all agree to play the "game" by the rules.

But I think you and me agree, the mass murder of CMDRs is not in the spirit of the game nor the Pilots Federation, which is what the Bounty system was for correct? Really we just need stiffer penalties and more tools for Bounty hunters to track down CMDRs with prices on their heads.

 

[fergal]

The OP and others are tying to hijack the PvP elements of the game (piracy and bounty hunting) and call attacking a player "because you can" PvP.

Yes this is PvP, but it isn't the only PvP, and its the PvP element that will cause the others to be destroyed.

Most of you here in this thread probably werent playing in Beta or before, some of you were. This isn't a new discussion.

When you used to exit supercruise (beta 1 and 2 I think, maybe just beta 1) you would be 15 km from the station. This was one of the ideal times to pirate players. This was changed to the current 7-8 km because the game designers don't want players to be attacked when actually getting to a station.

Sure you can still do this, but there is a pretty good chance the station will shoot at you and destroy you.

Now your elite rating wont go up if you kill a player who is clean. There are no statistics for player kills (or npc kills) just bounties collected. This was added to encourage what the game designers see as piracy, stealing from npcs and players, not killing them.

Bounties for killing were increased from 600cr to 6000cr, to discourage actual killing of clean targets.

If you want to go around interdicting clean ships (player or npc) this isn't the game for you. More restrictions will be placed on it, which will further cripple actual piracy.

The OP tried to justify picking on a clean sidewinder because its hard to find another player to pick on and when you have been looking for a while and this is all you see you have to kill them. Ridiculous justification, but I have to again say, this isn't the game for you. You will always have difficulty finding players. I'm happy when I actually see one and they say hello in return. I could go days without seeing players and I've been in Sorbago, one of the hot spots.

I'd be interested to hear from the OP in regards to the current bounty system. You kill a player you get a 6000cr bounty on your head. Do you just go and pay this off to remove any chance of a bounty hunter player trying to PvP with you?

If you only murder other players how do you earn money for the dumbfire missiles you probably use? Do you trade in solo then log into open for your own brand of PvP? (lets be honest here, this type of player isnt a PvPer, they are a bully)

 

[Phaser]

I do wonder how representative of the wider game playing community this forum is? Is it an older player thing to be so upset by dying in a video game, with ED players being older than average (vets of '84)? I've been killed 3000 times in BF4. I've lost many an online strategy game but still enjoyed them. In contrast I've never even been shot at once in ED by a human player despite playing for more than 100 hours.
AI ships aren't very good. I, like many others, have a kill ratio against AI of hundreds to 1 (and when I do die it is always to ramming...grrr!). If humans aren't going to compete against other humans then where is the next challenge in the game? The longevity in many games comes from progressing from beating the AI to competing against humans. I think aggressive human players are an important part of keeping ED fresh but people who prefer to stick to the degree of challenge provided by the AI have the option of solo - so everybody should be happy.

I don’t think its the older gamers who are the most upset about dieing. In fact, if you look at the content and history of griefing threads and one or two other kinds, most of them seem to be opened by a subset of the younger crowd, and new players who think the game is difficult because they are overwhelmed by a learning curve that in reality is not as steep as it may first seem to be. The rest of the younger players, to include a lot of the older players, tend to focus their attention on real issues within the game, be they bugs, gameplay elements or whatever. Although they will sometimes jump in on threads such as those, most of them seem to be either for the existence of both PvE and PvP in the same universe, or don’t mind either way. In regard to reward and longevity, the older guys will remember the days of yore, when good games were challenging. In that way, games like Dark Souls are old school, and all the better for it. I`m a bit of an older gamer myself, and am quite surprised with some of the attitudes Ive seen on this forum.


Griefing is one thing, PvP is quite another. Griefing is practically non existent as is, but like other subjects around here, it is talked up on the forums to the point of hysteria, when the actual in game situation, is completely different. Its like the difference between the official trailer for the game, and the “honest trailer” that came out just after it. Anyone who reads the forums, but hasn’t actually played the game, might be forgiven for thinking that open play is the equivalent of DayZ in space! The wipe/no wipe controversy in the run up to launch, was the same. The PvE only bunch jumped on that too, complaining that beta testers would have all the best ships, and that come launch on the 16th, a noob holocaust was set to ensue, if Frontier didn’t wipe. The irony is that they were the ones talking up the wipe. No one else particularly cared all that much, and they were the ones most disappointed with Frontiers final decision on the matter. None of them cared to be reminded that there had been a full wipe on the 22nd November, a mere 24 days prior to the release date. Nor did any of them care to be reminded that much work and time has already been spent “balancing” the game in their favor, to the point where griefing is practically non existent. And they still don’t! None of that matters......... they still want a toggle, or a completely separate mode altogether, just for them. Because as usual, its all about them. The content of their posts, versus the state of the game, reflect this. In my opinion, they have no idea what`s good for them or the game.

Anyway launch came and went, and as expected, no such holocaust came to pass. I`m a PvP fan. However, in this game, you need money to PvP. Since gamma began, on the 22nd November, Ive been playing with an adder and an upgraded sidewinder. I deleted my save last week, and now have an adder and an eagle, with almost 200,000 credits. I would have had, a little more money by now, had I not deleted my save, but I am quite happy with what I have, and have been spending time lately trying to get to grips with the rep/faction system(even if it is broken). You will find that people who enjoy the game right now, are people who are not worried about what everyone else has, nor are they worried about other people amassing vast wealth and bigger ships, simply to grief. I do not believe that there are many people in this game, who play it specifically with those intentions in mind. And if there are, they wont enjoy the game for long.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I am not a "griefer" myself, but griefers are absolutely needed in a game like this. They are the ones who make the game world interesting and challenging. The NPCs are of no real threat. Do you really want just to ferry goods between the stars without any danger? This game currently offers less gameplay features than Frontier: Elite 2 did. Removing danger from it would make it boring very fast (it's not like you can build stations or something with all that money, just upgrading your ship slightly). Frankly, I am dissapointed that huge portions of the Elite community are such whiners. The game is called ELITE DANGEROUS. It's predecessors were called FRONTIER. Yet there is not much of a frontier spirit, nor eliteness nor danger currently there. The huge game world and all the instancing make encounters between humans rare enough already, being able to avoid them altogether would be a real loss.

Seriously, what do you guys want? This game is about the conquest of space, about taming the frontier. Dangers and bandits included! You want to be safe? Well, there are far better ways for that: Fly in groups, "state owned" (fed, empire, alliance) ferry-ships armed to teeth that fly between the populated systems and to which players could attach to, clans that provide protection in the wilderness in exchange for credits etc. There would be many creative ways to provide certain protection.

A truly dangerous world full of griefers where you need allies and the occasional cavalry to survive in would be SO MUCH MORE FUN than the sterile carebear environment so many seem to want (don't you have the solo mode for that already?).

There's a reason why EVE is going strong for over a decade now, because they got it that a sterile safe space is no fun in the long run.

What do you peope want? Elite Dangerous or Space Truck Simulator 3300?

I completely agree. Right now, when it comes to life in the open play universe, the balance is absolutely in favor of the PvE only bunch. There is very little “griefing” going down, and what is left.... is needed! These people have nothing to worry about, yet want more. They want it all, and act like madmen on here defending the game from the impending threat of Eve players. The OP went to great lengths to make clear his point, yet it got dissected line by line, and twisted to mean something it didn’t!

 

[Beld]

lol this thread is still going, but atleast theres been some progress, pvpers have been elevated from mugger, to murder and then to rapists, I'd imagine it won't be long before people decide to call pvpers sex offenders or hitler reincarnated.