please don't confuse PvPers with griefers

[Joe Spivey]

I don't blame people who refuse to consider basic rules of engagement. That is completely up to them. I'm just wondering why they get upset when they get beaten by people who do.

Please falsify my argument instead of trying to change the subject.

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This goes out to everyone, just rolling you all into one group. What are you basing your arguments on? The game in the current form regarding it's online component is everything it said it would be. So what are you basing your arguments on? How are you measuring the content?

The basis of the arguments are well established and addressed elsewhere in the forums. Feel free to research for yourself.

 

[easthamd]

This goes out to everyone, just rolling you all into one group. What are you basing your arguments on? The game in the current form regarding it's online component is everything it said it would be. So what are you basing your arguments on? How are you measuring the content?

Being what it 'said it would be' on launch does not take into account popular opinions post that point.

Based on feedback from numerous people, that launch model could potentially do with some tweaks in order to give people what they want, as clearly demonstrated in this thread and other threads along these lines.

The measurement is the numerous expressions of dissatisfactions from assorted other users, if you wish to total them up by all means you can carry out your own forum search.

Explained enough for you? I don't want to have to draw pictures.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

I actually agree with you, totally. But it is a little more complicated than that. You see, the problem arises when the PvP player goes after ONLY other players. You see, the game design works both ways. Yes the PvE player must be prepared to put up with some attacks that happen to be from other players. But the other side of the scale is that the PvP player must accept that there are other targets besides players. Sadly, they don't. Time and again they have said on these forums that they ONLY attack players because that is how they get their buzz. Do you see they problem, the unbalance? The trader accepts that PvP is part of the game. The PvP player thinks PvP IS the game.

But only attacking other players IS a legitimate way to play in the OPEN mode. A player in open mode that chooses to only ever attack other players is playing the game in accordance with it's design. (I agree that its not an effective way to play the game... but is IS possible... and it IS by design... otherwise FD would have taken steps to prevent it) There is no unbalance... By steping into the OPEN game mode, you consent to other players interacting with you in any way they see fit. It can't be much simpler, to be honest.

You didn't manage to even grasp my points in the reply.

Why should people not be allowed to enjoy open play, and interact in a positive manner with other commanders? A flag system would simply allow people to say 'I'm here for a good time with friends, not for shooting people'.

Keeps the social element, removes the undesirables like you.

This is what private groups are for... social interaction, without the risk of Hostile players. TYou even play in teh SAME galaxy. just without the "undesirables" as you put it.

 

[lardarz]

Why should people not be allowed to enjoy open play, and interact in a positive manner with other commanders?

Why should people not be allowed to enjoy open play, interact in a positive manner with other commanders, and also shoot some of them?

 

[easthamd]

Why should people not be allowed to enjoy open play, interact in a positive manner with other commanders, and also shoot some of them?

Hence the original need for a flag, so people can do both!

Keep up.

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But only attacking other players IS a legitimate way to play in the OPEN mode. A player in open mode that chooses to only ever attack other players is playing the game in accordance with it's design. (I agree that its not an effective way to play the game... but is IS possible... and it IS by design... otherwise FD would have taken steps to prevent it) There is no unbalance... By steping into the OPEN game mode, you consent to other players interacting with you in any way they see fit. It can't be much simpler, to be honest.



This is what private groups are for... social interaction, without the risk of Hostile players. TYou even play in teh SAME galaxy. just without the "undesirables" as you put it.

But how is someone supposed to find these 'groups' in game?

 

[Sanguisaevum]

Being what it 'said it would be' on launch does not take into account popular opinions post that point.

Based on feedback from numerous people, that launch model could potentially do with some tweaks in order to give people what they want, as clearly demonstrated in this thread and other threads along these lines.

The measurement is the numerous expressions of dissatisfactions from assorted other users, if you wish to total them up by all means you can carry out your own forum search.

Explained enough for you? I don't want to have to draw pictures.

I am seriosuly struggeling to understand your viewpoint...

You want "open mode without pvp, but with social interaction"

Is this correct?

If so... please explain how a Private group does NOT fulfill that very desire.

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

Please falsify my argument instead of trying to change the subject.

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The basis of the arguments are well established and addressed elsewhere in the forums. Feel free to research for yourself.

Being what it 'said it would be' on launch does not take into account popular opinions post that point.

Based on feedback from numerous people, that launch model could potentially do with some tweaks in order to give people what they want, as clearly demonstrated in this thread and other threads along these lines.

The measurement is the numerous expressions of dissatisfactions from assorted other users, if you wish to total them up by all means you can carry out your own forum search.

Explained enough for you? I don't want to have to draw pictures.

Hahaha, you boys make me happy because the two of you just shot yourselves in the foot. You just invalidated yourselves out of this thread. Thank you

The next time you two want to argue your points, you really should do a better job of really fleshing out the argument before you actually jump in and get involved yourself. Just a little friendly tip. Because it's pretty obvious the two of you have no idea what you are really talking about.

 

[darkcyd]

Nice ageism.

I'm sure the old fogey moderators will enjoy the report.

Ageism? is that even a thing? Really deep in the liberal gin tonight.

When old, you get worse at twitch games. I'm getting old and have a harder time competing. I get really confused when people use some fanatical liberal term to deny common truth. You get old, you get slower. OMG I'M AN AGEIST.

 

[easthamd]

Hahaha, you boys make me happy because the two of you just shot yourselves in the foot. You just invalidated yourselves out of this thread. Thank you

I'm... not entirely sure you understand how debates work?

http://www.wikihow.com/Debate

Here, I'll help.

 

[Beld]

its all just arguing for the sake of arguing now, lines have been drawn, unless the rules of the game change, i'll shoot who i want when i want, feel free to whine about it or run off into a private shard, or as others with testicular fortitude will do, stop me. ( I don't pay my own bounties so that when a person does fight me and win they will be rewarded for it, the way the game should work.)

 

[Sanguisaevum]

Hence the original need for a flag, so people can do both!

Keep up.

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But how is someone supposed to find these 'groups' in game?

You create your own, like the very succseful PVE group that "Mobious" formed (several thousand players in a group that want to play the game in the exact way you do)

Please Don't advocate changing the OPEN gameplay experience when you don't actually know how to utilise the tools given to you by the devs to enjoy the game your own way.

 

[Lanatir]

Sure, you use a strawman fallacy to group all pvpers into a group of seal clubbers and grievers. There is no argument to be had. The game doesn't allow for financially beneficial pvp because its designed by old people for old people and the old people keep it. If it had cost beneficial pvp, they'd get whacked because they are old and crap. If it had battlegrounds, they'd get whacked. It is just that simple.

Wow...just wow. Are you serious?

 

[easthamd]

You create your own, like the very succseful PVE group that "Mobious" formed (several thousand players in a group that want to play the game in the exact way you do)

Please Don't advocate changing the OPEN gameplay experience when you don't actually know how to utilise the tools given to you by the devs to enjoy the game your own way.

You didn't respond to my question.

How do people find these groups in game?

If people have to rely on a third party source to be able to group up with people, that's quite flawed.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

You didn't respond to my question.

How do people find these groups in game?

If people have to rely on a third party source to be able to group up with people, that's quite flawed.

At this point, i have to assume you are trolling.

You create or join a group, message a member, then go find them in game and fly with them... it's what i have been doing with my friends since release when i dont feel like playing in open mode...

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

You didn't respond to my question.

How do people find these groups in game?

If people have to rely on a third party source to be able to group up with people, that's quite flawed.

Use the forums like you already do. Geez, are you really being serious?

 

[darkcyd]

The argument stands by itself, no matter who makes it. What is flawed is your assumptions. For your information I was in the Falklands conflict and lost several very good friends. I can assure you I am not and never have been a pacifist.

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A stawman argument is an argument that is false and thereby easily knocked down. Please show the flaw in my argument.

Your basis for accusing all proPvPers of being seal clubbers and grievers was that it was pointed out that it is beneficial in combat to fight your opponent when he is weak(ie not wait for a fair fight). All of us do that. At the Nav point when bounty hunting and you are looking at that deadly python with a 90k bounty, do you go right in with guns a blazing or maybe let the security guards pick him up so he is distracted and you have some help?

When somebody picks a target it is always in their mind a tactically good choice. Chivalry is out the window when you consider world PvP but that doesn't mean the player is a griever. It just means he doesn't want to die anymore than you do and since he picks the engagement, he picks the engagements that he thinks he can win.

 

[lardarz]

Hence the original need for a flag, so people can do both!

Keep up.

eh? You want a "flag" above someone's ship saying its either ok or not ok to shoot them? In an open, supposedly realisticish universe? Thats just nuts, unless you get to flag them yourself with friend / not friend or something.

 

[easthamd]

At this point, i have to assume you are trolling.

You create or join a group, message a member, then go find them in game and fly with them... it's what i have been doing with my friends since release...

The correct answer is 'you can't'.

Because there is no real multiplayer functionality in the game as of yet. No wings, no squadrons.

Hence why a simple on and off 'shoot me' or 'don't shoot me' flag would be a decent stop-gap measure.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I think it's perfectly valid to be able to enjoy positive player interaction, without wanting to be destroyed at random. People shouldn't feel like they need to be banished to the phantom zone all on their own just to enjoy a game.

You didn't manage to even grasp my points in the reply.

Why should people not be allowed to enjoy open play, and interact in a positive manner with other commanders? A flag system would simply allow people to say 'I'm here for a good time with friends, not for shooting people'.

Keeps the social element, removes the undesirables like you.

Hence why a simple on and off 'shoot me' or 'don't shoot me' flag would be a decent stop-gap measure.

Stop asking for a cheat mode. When you play in open you run the same risks as everyone else in open play - fair is fair. Stop asking to be immune from those risks because you don't like said risk, there are other less "risky" modes of play. If you happen to stumble across a psycho who wants nothing but your blood then that is just bad luck - kill him, run or die ( but never all three!), then hope to never stumble across him again. Or take your mates and hunt the scum down. Don't ask for immunity or similar cheats.

Do you see they problem, the unbalance? The trader accepts that PvP is part of the game. The PvP player thinks PvP IS the game.

Bit of a generalization on your part there. Some players may play the game as a purely combat orientated game, it's a valid play style, one which is endorsed by the devs, see the become "Elite" competition. Either way I'm sure the percentage of the combat group that only hunts human players is very, very small and insignificant at best. I have played since beta and have never come across any such player. Do you have the same angst and ill feelings toward the NPC characters that scream "DDDIIIIIIEEEEEE!!!!" over the comms and then blow you up even although you had no cargo or bounty on your head?

It just seems to me that some of you cannot handle life in void and the risks it may throw in your direction. Maybe we need an 'Elite: Baggage Handler' expansion pack - "It's cold and unsafe outside, but it's warm and comfortable in our office. Join us today for a safer mode of play!!!"

 

[Sanguisaevum]

The correct answer is 'you can't'.

Because there is no real multiplayer functionality in the game as of yet. No wings, no squadrons.

Hence why a simple on and off 'shoot me' or 'don't shoot me' flag would be a decent stop-gap measure.

What?!?

Then explain how i am doing EXACTLY that in game right now?

I play in a private gorup, with my friends, i mesage them in game, i fly with them in game, in the same instances, against the same NPC ships...

Don't try to change the game because YOU don't know how to use the tools given to you correctly.

The functioanlity you are asking for ALREADY EXISTS...

At this point, i am convinced you are trolling. Welcome to ignore.