please don't confuse PvPers with griefers

[Joe Spivey]

But only attacking other players IS a legitimate way to play in the OPEN mode. A player in open mode that chooses to only ever attack other players is playing the game in accordance with it's design. (I agree that its not an effective way to play the game... but is IS possible... and it IS by design... otherwise FD would have taken steps to prevent it) There is no unbalance... By steping into the OPEN game mode, you consent to other players interacting with you in any way they see fit. It can't be much simpler, to be honest.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Let me first repost what i said and what you are replying too.

"... You see, the problem arises when the PvP player goes after ONLY other players. You see, the game design works both ways. Yes the PvE player must be prepared to put up with some attacks that happen to be from other players. But the other side of the scale is that the PvP player must accept that there are other targets besides players. Sadly, they don't. Time and again they have said on these forums that they ONLY attack players because that is how they get their buzz. Do you see they problem, the unbalance? The trader accepts that PvP is part of the game. The PvP player thinks PvP IS the game."

Now, let me include a quote by David Braben:

"It is important that players enjoy the experience. We are writing this game for ourselves, and the fun of the game is the most important thing. Player-player encounters should be interesting, and part of this is the ability to hide - whether from other players or AIs. Most of the ships you encounter will be AIs - and in many cases you will kill them - which is why we want the majority to be AIs. Generally speaking we expect players, even beginners, to be more of a challenge than an AI ship, and something that players will tend not to attack, but more cooperate with, and we are designing the bounty system (and others) to discourage PvP and encourage player cooperation."

So, you see. Either by my argument that Non PvP players play the game as designed and DO consent to PvP as designed whilst PvP players do not do this and ONLY play PvP. or by DB's words... you are wrong.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

Sorry for the delay, just arrived at work . Ok then, while I agree with your point that a PvP player is naturally going to look for a combat he/she believes is winable, there is also a point to be made as regard to degree. At the top of the scale your potential opponant is only slightly less powerful than yourself. At the bottom of the scale is the trader in a hauler. At what point on this scale does attacking the opponant stop being a PvP contest and turn into the baby seal killing I described earlier?

I am not sure that is relevant, though.


to take your example...

If the trader in a hauler is in open mode... then "Billy seal-clubber" is well within his rights to simply evaporate the hauler becuase that's what he finds entertaining. There are game mechanics, that provide consiquences to this kind of behaviour... but at the end of the day... NOTHING is preventing seal clubbing in open mode. And we have no right to judge how others find their entertainment. (even though i share your view that seal clubbing is distastfull... i defend the clubber's right to do it in open mode if they see fit. beside.. it provides Hunters like me with large player bonties to collect)

 

[TaoZero5]

Once again, since this does not seem to be sinking in...

THERE IS ALLREADY A PVP FLAG.

IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO EXPERIENCE HOSTILE PLAYERS, you can choose to NOT PLAY IN OPEN MODE.

IN OPEN MODE... ALL FORMS OF PLAYER INTERACTION ARE VALID! by design!

No! Wrong! You want to be hostile then you go to an arena to do that (Group Mode). I'm not going to let you throw me out of Open. It's for everybody.

 

[lardarz]

to discourage PvP and encourage player cooperation."

So, you see. Either by my argument that Non PvP players play the game as designed and DO consent to PvP as designed whilst PvP players do not do this and ONLY play PvP. or by DB's words... you are wrong.

What that says to me is something like - "if you don't want to get shot at by another players, gang up with other players so you scare them off."

 

[Sanguisaevum]

to discourage PvP and encourage player cooperation."

Note there is no mention of PREVENTING PvP.

"Discourage" Not "Prevent"

Sorry, but you are incorrect here. The game is designed so that mindlessly killing others in open mode without repercusions is hard and ultimately pointless (bounties, wanted status, increased hunter interdiction, paying of bounties at death etc etc etc)

But that behaviour is NOT explicitly prevented via the game engine... therfore, it is a valid (if distasteful) way to play. if was not... Open mode would be designed in such a way as to PREVENT (not DISCOURAGE) players from mindless killing sprees just for the sake of it.

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It's for everybody.

First.. i am not a player killer, or pvper.. i am abounty hunter, mainly focusing on NPCs... so please direct your anger elsewhere.

And secondly... correct, Open mode IS for everybody.. including those who like to kill other players... by joining open mode, you agree to meet them from time to time. Not my rules... but the way FD DESIGNED open mode.

 

[Pennyblack]

- ENTER OPEN PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK -

Spoiler

 

[Hammerstien]

As someone who enjoys open mode but does not like PVP when I am trading I would like the option to place bounties on peoples heads who have attacked me when I am in a non combat ship

 

[CylonSurfer]

No! Wrong! You want to be hostile then you go to an arena to do that (Group Mode). I'm not going to let you throw me out of Open. It's for everybody.

Stop asking for a cheat mode that makes you immune from player attacks then. You openly admit that open play is for everyone but at the same time cannot accept the risks that playing in open play presents....The risks that everyone including yourself and any would be attacker is susceptible too. Fair is fair.

?

 

[Joe Spivey]

I am not sure that is relevant, though.


to take your example...

If the trader in a hauler is in open mode... then "Billy seal-clubber" is well within his rights to simply evaporate the hauler becuase that's what he finds entertaining. There are game mechanics, that provide consiquences to this kind of behaviour... but at the end of the day... NOTHING is preventing seal clubbing in open mode. And we have no right to judge how others find their entertainment. (even though i share your view that seal clubbing is distastfull... i defend the clubber's right to do it in open mode if they see fit. beside.. it provides Hunters like me with large player bonties to collect)

Absolutely, yes. But do you see the point i'm making that the PvP player who only, ONLY goes after other players, is not playing the game, as you say, 'as it is designed'. Now then, further to this, because this is what the PvP player is doing he is changing the amount of times a PvE player can 'reasonably' expect to be attacked by another player.

And yes, i know he will be attacked by npcs too but before you say that there is no difference, we both know that there IS a difference because it is that 'difference' that makes the PvP player go after players.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

As someone who enjoys open mode but does not like PVP when I am trading I would like the option to place bounties on peoples heads who have attacked me when I am in a non combat ship

I believe this is an intended future feature. Actually...

 

[CylonSurfer]

Absolutely, yes. But do you see the point i'm making that the PvP player who only, ONLY goes after other players, is not playing the game, as you say, 'as it is designed'. Now then, further to this, because this is what the PvP player is doing he is changing the amount of times a PvE player can 'reasonably' expect to be attacked by another player.

And yes, i know he will be attacked by npcs too but before you say that there is no difference, we both know that there IS a difference because it is that 'difference' that makes the PvP player go after players.

How often, if ever, have you come across a player in the actual game that purely and exclusively kills human players only?

 

[Joe Spivey]

I believe this is an intended future feature. Actually...

Yes it is, and that will certainly make things interesting Anyway, sorry but RL demands I do something to warrant the money they give. Later chaps.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

Absolutely, yes. But do you see the point i'm making that the PvP player who only, ONLY goes after other players, is not playing the game, as you say, 'as it is designed'. Now then, further to this, because this is what the PvP player is doing he is changing the amount of times a PvE player can 'reasonably' expect to be attacked by another player.

And yes, i know he will be attacked by npcs too but before you say that there is no difference, we both know that there IS a difference because it is that 'difference' that makes the PvP player go after players.

Yes... a player who only targets otehr players is kind of missing the point of the game, i agree... but... until FD put something in place to actively prevent this type of behaviour (and who knows... maybe they will at some point?)... it IS a valid way for someone to gain their entertainment. (As distastdul as that may be to us)

 

[Joe Spivey]

How often, if ever, have you come across a player in the actual game that purely and exclusively kills human players only?

Oh come on. The forums are full of posts where PvPers openly say that this is their main way of enjoying a game, it's how they get their buzz.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I'm am not asking about the forum. How often have you personally come across such a player and how long have you played for?

 

[Sanguisaevum]

How often, if ever, have you come across a player in the actual game that purely and exclusively kills human players only?

This is another good point.

Since release, i have been interdicted by ONE player. just ONE.

He opened fire immediately, and i noticed he had a 50k bounty. I assume that this is the kind of player we are talking about.

He was destroyed in short order, and i went on my merry way. But it certainly seems to me that this kind of player is rare indeed.

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Oh come on. The forums are full of posts where PvPers openly say that this is their main way of enjoying a game, it's how they get their buzz.

Forum warriors are irelevant to the question..

Seriosuly... how often do you actually SEE this behaviour in game?

 

[Amaze]

They should just put an option for both
Open PvP
Open PvE

Then open PvE might get about 80% players instead of 80% in solo.

Right now my guess is its about 80% solo, 5% group and 15% open.

The minorities should have there own groups not the majority.

I wouldn't want to see a "cheat" flag where I am invulnerable to their fire but I would like to not see them at all.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

They should just put an option for both
Open PvP
Open PvE

Then open PvE might get about 80% players instead of 80% in solo.

Right now my guess is its about 80% solo, 5% group and 15% open.

The minorities should have there own groups not the majority.

I wouldn't want to see a "cheat" flag where I am invulnerable to their fire but I would like to not see them at all.

This option already exists...

Edit - Negative rep? really? for arguing my position in a concise manner?

Some people need to grow up.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Umm silence on that front. Maybe due to the work commitments so I'll reserve judgement and just speculate as to what I suspect to be true.

 

[Amaze]

This option already exists...

.

No it does not.

It is not the same at all

The private group is "private" and needs invitation accepted.

If its the same then maybe you don't mind swapping and having

Open pve
Private group Pvp

that be ok with you?