You mean the thousands of repetitions of the same tired fallacious argument. :rolleyes:
If you say so. At least I actually set out my thinking and back it up. All I get from you is....nothing.

False - PP provides territorial expansion/control gameplay, technically the BGS and Squadrons do not regardless of how you try to paint it.
As opposed to the territorial expansion / control gameplay in the BGS, co-ordinated though Squadrons these days? Erm. OK.

Open Only is NOT required to improve the mechanics, and arguably would not do so for many of us. The Open Only argument is heavily flawed since instancing with the opposition is far from guaranteed for reasons already spelled out thus would not actually provide the alleged gains and would penalise non-Open players.
Well, its the only feature on offer in the proposal that moves Powerplay on from the raging sucess its been so far.
Hmm, that's odd.

I might be getting the wrong impression but it seems to me that being engaged in this argument for so long, the argument has become more important than the result of meaningful PvP mechanics in a Powerplay environment. An argument that also won't result in OOPP, since talk here is cheap and has little consequence of adding anything to an already known subject. You think FDev will read this and think, "Hmmm, the 748th time the argument is made has really convinced us"? You think that's the best bet?

Well then, in that case I don't wish to intrude in your constructive back and forth, and wish you guys the best of luck. And when this thread doesn't deliver, there's always the next one.

Fancy seeing you here...


I do actually back that up with reasoning though.
While dismissing the opinion of those who would see it as a loss of choice.

I mean, bring whatever arguments to the table you like, but if someone says "I will be losing the choice to play PP in PG/solo should it go open only", its not exactly something you can provide any argument against. Its not even an opinion, it would be a fact.
Because he had said there would be an alternative he was considering. However it was shown to be mathmatically pointless without CZ changes which don't figure in the proposals.

As I explained in painful detail elsewhere, what is this 'precious gameplay' that will be lost if it went Open Only that is not present in the BGS? Powerplay has not been developed for years, while the BGS and features like Squadrons has to the point of making Powerplay redundant. Both of them can live side by side with Open only giving people more choice.
You are only talking about open mode only. You are simply dismissing players in the other modes.
And when this thread doesn't deliver, there's always the next one.
Indeed! Here's to the next OOPP thread! Which i presume will be started within a week or two of this one being locked.

Anyone taking bets on how long before this one is locked for circular arguments and people not behaving? I'll give it 30 pages max! Quite a few people on both sides have been handing out insults... can't be long now.

What i find funny though is the attitude of a few people who seem to think if they "won" the argument, FD would magically implement OOPP based on their desire for it. Seems to happen in every thread like this. Someone who says "Stop opposing it! You're preventing us from getting what we want!"
So much for not wanting to be peoples content. You've done more here than you would have in the game.

Its really not a big deal dying in a video game. Its only a big deal if you make it out to be.

All this tells me is you cant handle losing. And thats too bad Maynard.
Err.... So how many threads have been stated. For the argument of: 'Let us keep power play as it stands now?' I would guess at '0' and if you manage to dig one out; it would be one against the many; calling for a change. Therefore: How can those opposing this demand; be the losers?
NPCs in Powerplay are weak because they are farmed. Players act as gatherers, either generating merits or moving them. Open Only would then provide roles for players to either protect these guys or hunt them down.

Believe it or not, there are players and whole communities / Power communities out there dedicated to helping you live because its in their interest.
............and this is being done; each and every day. Under the current conditions.
............and this is being done; each and every day. Under the current conditions.
And importantly, by those who want the open experience. And they get it.

The crux of course is not this side discussion of who might or might not be enjoying the open experience. Its always been about the ability of people in PG/solo to be able to partake in PvE activities without having to worry about PvPers. Also those who partake in open PP as haulers, some of them seem not to like the idea that they can be attacked while their fellow haulers in PG/solo can't be, despite it being their choice to fly in open.

As things stand, everyone has a choice, but some people don't like it that those people have a choice, despite their own choice to play the game in open. So, they make their choice, but not happy with the choices of others..... well, that's their choice.
You know reading this. Even if it was Open only. People will make a private group like Mobuis Power play so Solo players don't get ganked. So Let keep Power play the way it is. Because it going to be waste Frontier time to try to FORCE players into the open. We will lose a lot of players if they do not have a choice.

See I rather play the game the way I WANT than to be forced to play in open so PvP can attack me. We also have to remember not everyone has the best connection or the best computers to deal with open mode and we would have a whine fest on PvP going so and so player lags a lot they should be banned.

I have seen this on CQC. They would be mad because my connection or computer was not that great at the time.

So it still a no for me. Let keep as is.
The point is that you might which is better than never.
For some.

For others, never is better than might.

And for yet a third group, might is only better than never if might is pretty darn close to never.

I’ve often compared PvP to spicy food. Some people prefer their food not hot at all. Others like creating bonfires in their mouths. Some like just a mild kick to their meals, while others cycle between testing their endurance, and then swearing “never again.” And, of course, there’s the jerks that think it’s amusing to unscrew the lid if the spice jar, so the next person to use it will ruin their meal.

The trick to running a successful restaurant isn’t forcing players to choose, for all time, between the ”ring of fire” spicy menu or the ”taste o’ cardboard” menu. The trick is to offer a wide variety of meals, appetizers, entrees, drinks, and deserts, while keeping the jerks out of the kitchen.

p.s. You’ve been asking what Powerplay has that the BGS doesn’t, given that the day-to-day activities of the BGS is far superior, variety wise, compared to Powerplay. While I’m sure others feel differently, for me what makes Powerplay more appealing is that there are strategic and logistical considerations to take into account. Unlike BGS territorial play, where size is limited solely by hours played, there are a lot more things to consider: Superpower affiliation, government type, population size, CC revenue, and CC cost. This makes the decisions I make on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis a lot more interesting.
After reading the last 18 pages and similar posts ive come to the conclusion that the only folks who want PP open only are the PvP players.

Well as someone who is on the fence about PvP due to the unbalanced state with engineering i say keep it as it is so those who would like to maybe get into PvP gets a chance to gather up the PvP toys so they stand at least a small chance of competition on a balanced field.

To those of you who like to PvP just for kicks here's an idea to try maybe, how about instead of looking for the easy kill in noob areas go hunt down some of the PP PvPers who might give ya the thrill your looking for but hey like i said its an idea and my opinion.

Yes i fly in open sometime when i wanna wing up with my squadron who are Hudson pledged, but me and several others who are still working on our engineering and what not for PvP would like to work on getting the gear in a somewhat peaceful instance when we are not in the mood for PvP.

I can safely say that out of 100 members 75 of us consider PvP a mood thing for when the grind gets boring and we wanna do something else, its not an all the time thing with us.

So why should we be punished just because an unknown number just want us as target practice?
Trust me, there are plenty of non-Powerplay CMDRs out there who provide plenty of target practice already.

PvP with some sort of meaning behind it is only a side effect of OOPP, it’s not that people just want more things to shoot.

...okay, maybe some of them, but I think that’s the exception, not the rule.

Because of the adversarial nature of Powerplay, I feel that a galaxy full of player-driven factions that are pitted against each other (Your rivals get ENEMY tags, for cryin’ out loud) should be more than just a risk-free cargo hauling contest in solo or private group.

It should really be given at least a trial run sometime in the future.

I’ve said it plenty of times before, Powerplay has potential to really be something great, instead of some watered down, generic BGS system.
Without Open to broaden Powerplay, it simply becomes a weak duplication of the BGS and Squadrons. From what FD have offered us, Open is the only part of the proposal that actually makes Powerplay different. Otherwise, whats the point of it?
Without open to broaden powerplay? what does that even mean? Powerplay is already driven by mechanics that provide little benefit to actually killing an opposing player. In fact while you are busy doing that, those players can be gaining advantages through playing the powerplay system the way the mechanics intend it? Which is also why open doesn't matter, the best way to fight is using the provided mechanics, which give no advantage to PvP at all.
No thanks OP.
In further news, I am sure the only Dev who suggested a flash topic about PPOO was shortly moved to another FD project. But I'm sure that's only a coincidence :unsure:


Volunteer Moderator
Hi all,

Just a heads up. Please post on-topic, or the thread will be locked. Also, refrain from posting image memes with no actual content, or you will be infracted. Discussing the issue is fine, posting nothing but an image is not. If that is an issue for you, go and make a cup of tea/coffee and then consider if what you were going to post actually adds any value to the discussion (here's a hint, if not, don't post it!).

Many thanks,
If you want change, I am going to have to be willing to compromise? In other words: You want something and if I don't like it; tough.
Compromise means both sides choose to not get their way 100% so that everyone can be happy with part of the agreement. Right now, your side is getting what they want 100% and our side is getting 0%. The attitude of many, not all, people on your side is that if things aren't 100% of our way all the time, we will fight tooth and nail about it.

Are you able to say that there is any possible change out there that you could live with so that more people would enjoy this game? Or is it your way or the highway?

I can understand people being opinionated and having strong feelings about stuff. But can't we start by just saying that we are open to the idea of change if certain criteria were met. It's no commitment, just an attitude that you're willing to work towards accomplishing something.
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