I have the same impression
Please make the game about more than pushing numbers!
- Thread starter Red Fox Four
- Start date
I have the same impression
So do I. This is very doable. Assets (camp units and props) can be recycled in other parts of the game, the rules governing camp unit function and interaction are very simple to program but allow for clever emergent construction; the control page can be incorporated in the existing station services access HUD, and the location, layout and status can be summarised in, I estimate, a 1kb block of data.
And one very important detail: player should be able to name the camp.
That's procedurally generated content for you.
If FD could do better without manually injecting content again and again, they probably would.
Last edited:
Bear with me, I just watched Ex Machina a few hours before posting
Interesting movie if you like controversial questions around AI As for the topic at hand though.
They are adding planetary landings. I am not excited or hyped. I'm 99% certain that planetary landings will be a bunch of carbon copy landing pads from outposts slapped onto the surface of asteroids. So you can go there, land, and access the same bulletin board as you do everywhere else. Maybe they'll add a small race circuit when you can do some go-carting with that little lander, but I have little confidence it will amount to anything beyond that. Just remember what I said when they release planetary landings and the first thing you see is the same g'damn landing pad that you've seen 200.000 times before, now glued to an asteroid instead.
Just look at everything they added in the game so far.
Everything is a 1 step/stage/layer process.
Every bulletin mission is a one step mission. Go deliver X. Go kill X of Y. Go collect X. Even trade missions don't require you to do multiple jumps even. It's all single-layer boredom (ocean and puddle). Why can't one mission lead into a situation where you need to make a conscious decision on how to move on, and that will then lead to something else. Why can't we get follow-up missions after we succeed and deliver the first one?
Mining, again, one stage thing. Mine ore from asteroid and go sell it. There's no "crafting". Why can't we melt down the ore into metals and then ship out those metals to sell elsewhere? Why can't we take metals to a system and build useful items from it, like ammunition, mining drones, prospector drones, modules and so on? No, because everything in Elite reeks of the "One Stage Mentality". We don't even have storage/warehousing where we can stockpile our ore and metals, and then ship them out to where prices are good with a larger freighter, e.g. Type7 or 9.
Some might argue that "Oh, but RedFox, adding that would make the game like EVE". Really? Does EVE Online have some magical copyright on MMO crafting? Or is it because EVE is the first, and only, MMO style sci-fi oriented game out there and they actually added player crafting and player driven economy, therefore no other game can have crafting and building? Please.
Piracy... lol... the criminal playstyle in the game is so horribly under-developed and outright annoying to play that I wonder if anyone at Frontier even watched a single pirate movie. Smuggling is broken and one-stage trade runs which are called smuggling in the game is so idiotically simple to execute with zero risk that I refuse to call it smuggling. There is no criminal network to 'hang out' with. There are no pirate bases isolated from the common starlanes where hunted pirates can gather to sell, equip, repair and find likeminded souls to do piracy with. Even if you are completely outlawed and with a huge bounty you can just land at any station. Noone cares. Even if you are fighting heart and soul for your faction and fighting pirates at every corner, you are still welcome as ever to land at pirate outposts.
Again, because game has zero decisions that lead to consequences.
As someone said further up... why can they rank up in both navies simultaneously? If I am fighting for Imperial Navy, then switch to help Federation... why am I not being kicked out, ranks stripped and put on the kill-list by my former comrades? Noone likes a traitor. Deserters are not only disliked, but shot on sight. And the higher rank you are if you switch, the more severely you should be penalized.
Make it a consequence to sign up for either Navy. Instead, in this One Stage Mentality game, there is no consequence. You can just do whatever you want. Blaze your own trail, cause noone in the galaxy cares and none of your actions matter in the slightest.
The very reason people are getting bored with the game is because everything is a one-step move. From mining, to trading, to missions, to powerplay, to... everything. Zero depth. Just rinse/repeat the same, assembly-line style missions and content.
Gives up depth.
Give us decisions with consequences.
Stop adding expanding the puddle with more shallow content and start expanding on what we already have in the game (such as expanding mining into crafting, or making us decide what navy to work for and kick us from the opposing one, then give us access to specific navy ships and modules for that navy).
Last edited:
^^Yup, what he said...but double!!
Another simple idea:
Every time you complete some challenging mission or important community goal or gain significant reputation with a faction, or company (to which you've been supplying your services), or acquire a system entry licence, you are issued with a special ship decal to reflect this (that cannot be otherwise bought or acquired in the game). After a while, your ship will look like a well-travelled piece of luggage --you know, we've all seen them at airports; battered suitcases with lots of stickers indicating they've been places.
Of course these decals can be carried over to any new ship. But this way your ship shows what kind of iron- pilot you are, who always knows where his towel is.
Every time you complete some challenging mission or important community goal or gain significant reputation with a faction, or company (to which you've been supplying your services), or acquire a system entry licence, you are issued with a special ship decal to reflect this (that cannot be otherwise bought or acquired in the game). After a while, your ship will look like a well-travelled piece of luggage --you know, we've all seen them at airports; battered suitcases with lots of stickers indicating they've been places.
Of course these decals can be carried over to any new ship. But this way your ship shows what kind of iron- pilot you are, who always knows where his towel is.
If they won't deliver on depth and consequences, then at least give variety and don't charge me full game price to see it.
Last edited:
are you a founder? if not you paid for a game to play and you can play it if you are you paid to help develope the game from scratch i would wager you not
I'm not a founder. Yes I play it but fail to see your point.
(keep in mind its early for me here)
Last edited:
you fail to see alot of things you paid to play a game is it playable? is it updated more than any other game ? is it still developing?
Yes. No. Yes, The same could be said for a lot of titles that are not even a year old after release(unless you buy crapware). Again, I fail to see your point (this time for different reasons, your first post wasn't exactly clear).
Last edited:
Lot's of updates don't = a good game.
If only those updates had some of this in them:
"Solid tangible character progression through deeply meaningful content, where actions are reflected within the players character growth, and include correlations to the universe, where its outlook towards the player has a direct impact on game play."
I can kill tons of Empire/Federal agents and still be in their navies. Stupid.
Everything new they added is still one-step number pushing.
Push x amount of reports in powerplay.
Kill x amount of ships in powerplay.
It's all bland, boring, number pushing.
The format they use is so lacking and one dimensional.
Oh, lets add something new to the game. Planetary Landings! Break out the Frontier standardized format for content.
Spend 10% of the Horizon budget to:
1. Copy/paste landing pads from outposts onto rocky asteroids we have in the RES.
2. Copy/paste the bulletin board interface from every station and outpost as the primary interface when docked on planets and asteroids.
3. Add exciting mission to use planetary rover/vehicle to pick up and deliver X messages from landing pad to arbitrary building on surface.
4. Add exciting mission to use planetary rover/vehicle to shoot x amount of pirate/bounty hunter/criminal/civilian/authority rovers.
Spend remaining 90% of the Horizon budget to:
1. Make CGI movies with awesome action movie camera angles of Rovers driving around.
2. Create PvP/CQC module with E-sports arena in mind of Rover vs Rover combat on planet surface.
3. Pat eachother on the back about awesome CGI and potential money grab from e-sports while ignoring community outcry for a game with more depth.
Then start planning new exciting missions...
How about "Fly around a star and collect X canisters of hydrogen fuel". Sounds like a great mission, since the community loves doing nothing but pushing numbers with no interest whatsoever in having a game with more meat on the bone, where they have to take adult, responsible decisions with ensuing consequences for their actions. Since after all, every Elite player is just a boxed up piece of mindless AI that float around like zombies in space.
Meh.
I'm ranting, but I truly want more from this game and they are just not delivering at all.
The entire game feels like a shallow gameplay demo, where all the good content with some depth and longevity in terms of gameplay is being withheld from us.
Push x amount of reports in powerplay.
Kill x amount of ships in powerplay.
It's all bland, boring, number pushing.
The format they use is so lacking and one dimensional.
Oh, lets add something new to the game. Planetary Landings! Break out the Frontier standardized format for content.
Spend 10% of the Horizon budget to:
1. Copy/paste landing pads from outposts onto rocky asteroids we have in the RES.
2. Copy/paste the bulletin board interface from every station and outpost as the primary interface when docked on planets and asteroids.
3. Add exciting mission to use planetary rover/vehicle to pick up and deliver X messages from landing pad to arbitrary building on surface.
4. Add exciting mission to use planetary rover/vehicle to shoot x amount of pirate/bounty hunter/criminal/civilian/authority rovers.
Spend remaining 90% of the Horizon budget to:
1. Make CGI movies with awesome action movie camera angles of Rovers driving around.
2. Create PvP/CQC module with E-sports arena in mind of Rover vs Rover combat on planet surface.
3. Pat eachother on the back about awesome CGI and potential money grab from e-sports while ignoring community outcry for a game with more depth.
Then start planning new exciting missions...
How about "Fly around a star and collect X canisters of hydrogen fuel". Sounds like a great mission, since the community loves doing nothing but pushing numbers with no interest whatsoever in having a game with more meat on the bone, where they have to take adult, responsible decisions with ensuing consequences for their actions. Since after all, every Elite player is just a boxed up piece of mindless AI that float around like zombies in space.
Meh.
I'm ranting, but I truly want more from this game and they are just not delivering at all.
The entire game feels like a shallow gameplay demo, where all the good content with some depth and longevity in terms of gameplay is being withheld from us.
Bear with me, I just watched Ex Machina a few hours before posting
As for the topic at hand though.
They are adding planetary landings. I am not excited or hyped. I'm 99% certain that planetary landings will be a bunch of carbon copy landing pads from outposts slapped onto the surface of asteroids. So you can go there, land, and access the same bulletin board as you do everywhere else. Maybe they'll add a small race circuit when you can do some go-carting with that little lander, but I have little confidence it will amount to anything beyond that. Just remember what I said when they release planetary landings and the first thing you see is the same g'damn landing pad that you've seen 200.000 times before, now glued to an asteroid instead.
Just look at everything they added in the game so far.
Everything is a 1 step/stage/layer process.
Every bulletin mission is a one step mission. Go deliver X. Go kill X of Y. Go collect X. Even trade missions don't require you to do multiple jumps even. It's all single-layer boredom (ocean and puddle). Why can't one mission lead into a situation where you need to make a conscious decision on how to move on, and that will then lead to something else. Why can't we get follow-up missions after we succeed and deliver the first one?
Mining, again, one stage thing. Mine ore from asteroid and go sell it. There's no "crafting". Why can't we melt down the ore into metals and then ship out those metals to sell elsewhere? Why can't we take metals to a system and build useful items from it, like ammunition, mining drones, prospector drones, modules and so on? No, because everything in Elite reeks of the "One Stage Mentality". We don't even have storage/warehousing where we can stockpile our ore and metals, and then ship them out to where prices are good with a larger freighter, e.g. Type7 or 9.
Some might argue that "Oh, but RedFox, adding that would make the game like EVE". Really? Does EVE Online have some magical copyright on MMO crafting? Or is it because EVE is the first, and only, MMO style sci-fi oriented game out there and they actually added player crafting and player driven economy, therefore no other game can have crafting and building? Please.
Piracy... lol... the criminal playstyle in the game is so horribly under-developed and outright annoying to play that I wonder if anyone at Frontier even watched a single pirate movie. Smuggling is broken and one-stage trade runs which are called smuggling in the game is so idiotically simple to execute with zero risk that I refuse to call it smuggling. There is no criminal network to 'hang out' with. There are no pirate bases isolated from the common starlanes where hunted pirates can gather to sell, equip, repair and find likeminded souls to do piracy with. Even if you are completely outlawed and with a huge bounty you can just land at any station. Noone cares. Even if you are fighting heart and soul for your faction and fighting pirates at every corner, you are still welcome as ever to land at pirate outposts.
Again, because game has zero decisions that lead to consequences.
As someone said further up... why can they rank up in both navies simultaneously? If I am fighting for Imperial Navy, then switch to help Federation... why am I not being kicked out, ranks stripped and put on the kill-list by my former comrades? Noone likes a traitor. Deserters are not only disliked, but shot on sight. And the higher rank you are if you switch, the more severely you should be penalized.
Make it a consequence to sign up for either Navy. Instead, in this One Stage Mentality game, there is no consequence. You can just do whatever you want. Blaze your own trail, cause noone in the galaxy cares and none of your actions matter in the slightest.
The very reason people are getting bored with the game is because everything is a one-step move. From mining, to trading, to missions, to powerplay, to... everything. Zero depth. Just rinse/repeat the same, assembly-line style missions and content.
Gives up depth.
Give us decisions with consequences.
Stop adding expanding the puddle with more shallow content and start expanding on what we already have in the game (such as expanding mining into crafting, or making us decide what navy to work for and kick us from the opposing one, then give us access to specific navy ships and modules for that navy).
I totally agree with everything you say. The depth of the game is non-existent. FD want the players to do everything for them. It is very interesting that they managed to get this far to be honest but the illusion will not last forever. Hopefully they read those threads and will make BIG changes SOON and FAST.
Right now I don't play the game any more really; the only thing I do is keep up my rank 5 and this takes me 8 hours of mindless chasing after red arrows in empty space. Not wasting my time any more than that on missions that make no sense (you help the main faction but still loose rep ??? ) This is bugged to bits and not worth my time. I'll also get a tan with a broken canopy and no shields right in front of a star because I can apparently haha
I played the game since gamma, and I played it lots. Loved the game.
And for anyone who is new to the game they will have a great time, for awhile...
But after you spend some time in the game you realize that you are just treading water, doing the same missions, shooting the same pirates... and seemingly for no purpose other than, well, credits.
The biggest example is how we can work for both navies at the same time. That makes sense. Not.
I wonder how the US, or UK, or any country for that matter, would like it if I enlist in their military, but at the same time I am going to enlist for ISIS and work on my reputation with them? Sure, that would be completely tolerated and accepted, and I would be warmly welcomed everytime I come back to US, UK or whereever.
No!
So why is it like this in Elite?
I do understand the concept of having full freedom in the game to 'blaze your own trail'. However, having full freedom to work for opposing factions and navies without consequence? Full freedom to plunder ships and murder innocents with minimal consequences (and please, don't even tell me bounties are consequence in current state of the game)?
Freedom means you have the luxury of making your own choices.
Freedom means you can make your own decisions.
Freedom means you are responsible for your own actions.
Freedom means you are ultimately responsible and held accountable for your choices, decisions and actions.
Freedom is NOT a free pass to do whatever you want without any consequence whatsoever.
Elite has too much freedom. No risk with smuggling. There's minimal consequence for piracy or murder. There's no decision to face when signing up for one navy or the other.
If you are a known pirate and murderer the stations in well reputed systems should deny you access and even fire at your ship once they identify you.
If you are a pilot in the Imperial Navy, then your presence should be faced with contempt and hostility if you enter Federation space. If you show up in a civilian ship you might just be subject to excessive scans, harassment and denial of certain trade goods. If you show up in a military ship, e.g. an Imperial Eagle, then you should be shot on sight for invading Federation space.
Likewise, if you are well reputed bounty hunter you should be welcomed and even given special deals in certain systems and stations, especially those on the fringes that are constantly harassed by pirates. However, as a fancypants bounty hunter, if you go to a pirate system or outpost you should be disliked or even hunted.
Why do we have none of this in the game?
Would it be too harsh in a game called Elite: Dangerous to have some actual consequences for our actions?
Right now it's more Elite: Nanny than Elite: Dangerous. Let the kids do whatever they want without any consequence because that is "fun".
Meh.
And for anyone who is new to the game they will have a great time, for awhile...
But after you spend some time in the game you realize that you are just treading water, doing the same missions, shooting the same pirates... and seemingly for no purpose other than, well, credits.
The biggest example is how we can work for both navies at the same time. That makes sense. Not.
I wonder how the US, or UK, or any country for that matter, would like it if I enlist in their military, but at the same time I am going to enlist for ISIS and work on my reputation with them? Sure, that would be completely tolerated and accepted, and I would be warmly welcomed everytime I come back to US, UK or whereever.
No!
So why is it like this in Elite?
I do understand the concept of having full freedom in the game to 'blaze your own trail'. However, having full freedom to work for opposing factions and navies without consequence? Full freedom to plunder ships and murder innocents with minimal consequences (and please, don't even tell me bounties are consequence in current state of the game)?
Freedom means you have the luxury of making your own choices.
Freedom means you can make your own decisions.
Freedom means you are responsible for your own actions.
Freedom means you are ultimately responsible and held accountable for your choices, decisions and actions.
Freedom is NOT a free pass to do whatever you want without any consequence whatsoever.
Elite has too much freedom. No risk with smuggling. There's minimal consequence for piracy or murder. There's no decision to face when signing up for one navy or the other.
If you are a known pirate and murderer the stations in well reputed systems should deny you access and even fire at your ship once they identify you.
If you are a pilot in the Imperial Navy, then your presence should be faced with contempt and hostility if you enter Federation space. If you show up in a civilian ship you might just be subject to excessive scans, harassment and denial of certain trade goods. If you show up in a military ship, e.g. an Imperial Eagle, then you should be shot on sight for invading Federation space.
Likewise, if you are well reputed bounty hunter you should be welcomed and even given special deals in certain systems and stations, especially those on the fringes that are constantly harassed by pirates. However, as a fancypants bounty hunter, if you go to a pirate system or outpost you should be disliked or even hunted.
Why do we have none of this in the game?
Would it be too harsh in a game called Elite: Dangerous to have some actual consequences for our actions?
Right now it's more Elite: Nanny than Elite: Dangerous. Let the kids do whatever they want without any consequence because that is "fun".
Meh.
It's barebones to be sure, but I'm seeing enhancements slowly...too slowly.
Michael Brooke's last dev update talked about tools to support stories.
PP, like Risk, is highly abstracted, but over time layers will be added and gameplay more complex and interesting.
I sense they are taking the time to do it right (or make it right) knowing that many of us, like me, will come back and check once in a while to see what's new. It's a long-term relationship for me.
Michael Brooke's last dev update talked about tools to support stories.
PP, like Risk, is highly abstracted, but over time layers will be added and gameplay more complex and interesting.
I sense they are taking the time to do it right (or make it right) knowing that many of us, like me, will come back and check once in a while to see what's new. It's a long-term relationship for me.
Red Fox Four is absolutely correct. We are all playing this game realizing it will be an ever evolving process but the things he describes are basic mechanics of the game that should have been in since release. These are the LITTLE things that make HUGE differences in the game. These are not things that should be part of a 10 year development plan.